Will this increase or decrease the likelihood of terrorist actions in America, Europe and the rest of the world?

If you were a member of a family murdered in this conflict, would you be seeking revenge?

Should Tzipi Livni and Ehud Olmert, be tried for war crimes if or when this conflict comes to an end?

What will the price of oil be in 4 weeks time?

hayseed - the one-man garbage printing press, struggling along manfully while his lord and master fred is away (for a whole month i hear - yippee!)

http://www.nkusa.org/activities/Statements/20090429IID.cfm

http://www.nkusa.org/aboutus/index.cfm

Neturei Karta opposed the establishment of and retain all opposition to the existence of the so-called "State of Israel"!

The name was given to a group of Orthodox Jews in Jerusalem who refused (and still refuse) to recognize the existence or authority of the so-called "State of Israel" and made (and still make) a point of publicly demonstrating their position, the position of the Torah and authentic unadulterated Judaism.

Neturei Karta oppose the so-called "State of Israel" not because it operates secularly, but because the entire concept of a sovereign Jewish state is contrary to Jewish Law.

Jews are not allowed to dominate, kill, harm or demean another people and are not allowed to have anything to do with the Zionist enterprise, their political meddling and their wars.

The true Jews remain faithful to Jewish belief and are not contaminated with Zionism.

The true Jews are against dispossessing the Arabs of their land and homes. According to the Torah, the land should be returned to them.

The world must know that the Zionists have illegitimately seized the name Israel and have no right to speak in the name of the Jewish people!

Yep - the NK are a very small but vociferous lunatic fringe who disagree with much of the orthodox opinion. They're the bearded Hassidic looking characters you often see on TV wearing black hats, waving Palestinian flags and burning Israeli passports. They are often referred to in the media as Rabbis. I believe they number about 100, and one of their members was the 'Token Jew' member of Yassir Arafat's governing body.

They're about as credible as Monty Python's "People's front of Judea". Or was that the "Judean Peoples Front"? And their views are equally as daft.

Every religion has their own version of the NK nutters.

I suppose they are a lunatic fringe similar to the ultra orthodox who cause the Israeli government to have such a right wing view and encourage illegal settlements.

"The Zionist movement created the Israeli state. The latter is a persuasion less than one hundred years old. Its essential goal was and is to change the nature of the Jewish people from that of a religious entity to a political movement."

"the number of Orthodox Jews who believe in the anti-Zionist ideology which Neturei Karta is known for, number in the hundreds of thousands."

"The Zionist movement created the Israeli state. The latter is a persuasion less than one hundred years old. Its essential goal was and is to change the nature of the Jewish people from that of a religious entity to a political movement."

Haystack - you read their nonsense and lap it up, don't you?

Want to dig out some of the lunatic jihadist, christian, black power and BNP stuff for balance?

It is not just that group. If look you will find plenty of such group and web sites. There was a demonstration in New York of 10,000 Jews protesting the existence of the state of Israel. The same is true across the world. Many Jews now cliam that Zionism is now the main cause of anti-semitism. Israel is not a Jewish state, it is a Zionist state. Zionism is a relatively new thing, about 100 years. As Israel is about Zionism and not Judaism then I am as qualified as you to talk about it.

.... but evidently you are considerably less well-informed.

I don't hink so. You just ignore a lot of what you don't like. Either way it is just two people's opinion.

and you simply cut and paste whatever wacko information you find on the web without a moment's consideration for its veracity. And you believe it all and call it research.

Whether it is 'whacko' is a matter of opinion. I check most of the information from multiple sources. Some of it is directly from Palestinian sources. With a bit of time and research you can find the same story reported by the BBC and other sources and written by different people with much of it coming from people who were there at the time. You can call it 'whacko' if you like. I can see that the content doesn't appeal to you.

The real facts are that Israel is behaving in a terrible way almost every day. This is the opinion of all objective observers. The UN and the Red Cross have people on the ground in Gaza, the West Bank, Jerusalem and Israel. They see what goes not there. There are EU delegates who visit the area and see for themselves. There are members of aid agencies across the world.

There are even Israeli soldiers who say they have been made to commit atrocities. The evidence is overwhelming. Jewish politicians in the UK have likened Israel to Nazis because of their behavior. I think you are just in denial.

See what I mean?

The above is all true and can easily be proved from dozens of sources. Do you want me to post the testimony of the Israeli soldiers?

Which objective observers support Israel and their behaviour? I can't think of any. Apart from the weak support from the US and UK governments there is virtually no support from any other countries. Israel is becoming more isolated and it is the way they behave that is the cause.

israel seemingly commits atrocities or something in similar inflammatory language whereas hamas and hezbollah are merely striving for peace and peaceful coexistence, all being done in a sensible and altruistic manner for the good of the philistines in gaza

propaganda is always thus packaged

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in that case, neither side should be considered successful ..... and as you well know, i consider the "powers" on both sides to be equally despicable

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Hamas is not striving for peaceful coexistence and not always striving in a peaceful manner. They want their country and land back. Hamas have temporarily stopped aggressive tactics and are pursuing political means as they are presently convinced that isolating Israel is a preferred option. I say temporarily as I expect more militant action to resume at some stage. I have been following the Palestinian cause since the war in 1967. The success of Israel in that war and the annexation of large parts of Arab land has done more harm to Israel and good to the Palestinians than almost anything. It focused the world's attention on the Palestinians and they could easily raise money almost anywhere in the world. Yasser Arafat was declared the leader of the Palestinians by Egypt and the struggle took on a more political dimension. Hamas are the inheritors of the struggle.

no more "theirs" than "theirs" ..... philistines and their ilk were as nomadic as the 12 tribes

Between 700 and 800 thousand Arabs were refugees from the area in the 1948 war and another 300 thousand were refugees in the 1967 war. The current total of refugees and their descendants is exceeds 4 million.

IF Palestinians were not a people and did not have homes, where did the more than a million refugees come from. This nomadic Palestinian nonsense is just one more Israeli myth and lie.

The Palestinian right of return was specifiied in UN resolution 194 which resolves that the refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbours should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or damage to property which, under principles of international law or in equity, should be made good by the Governments or authorities responsible.

UN General Assembly Resolution 3236, passed on 22 November 1974 declared the right of return to be an "inalienable right".


In June 1948, the Israeli government stated its position, which was reiterated in a letter to the United Nations on 2 August 1949, that in its view a solution to the Palestinian refugee problem must be sought, not through the return of the refugees to Israel, but through the resettlement of the Palestinian Arab refugee population in other states.

In 1948 the Israeli levelled Palestinian villages to prevet the return of refugees.

They passed the Absentee Property Law allowing the state to confiscate land belonging to people not present in Israel and gave the land to illegal settlers.