Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

I have just read that the Libdems..(who the hell are they..???....).....will take Britain back into Europe......what a bunch of muppets......

good morning chaps from a sunny and relatively windless cascais (near lisbon)

fwiw, sunday ftse is now showing at 5945 but of course that is arguably just a defensive position



fred - your man corbyn did fuck all to promote the cause of remain ...... and of course you didn't even get off your arse to vote ...... some things never change

it's also a shame that half the shadow cabinet will now be campaigning to get rid of the tories best friend

===================

much more relevant (than fred who isn't) ......

george soros
for once in his life i thought said something sensible rather than self-serving, which of course i cannot now find

anyway and to summarise he said ....
eu in its present format is almost inevitably into terminal decline, so what was now needed was for all to pull together to restructure it to its original concept

i think and hope i have got that right

Post 3587,

Yes. We will need arms guards at the borders to stop the exodus of people and "wealth" leaving the country.


(Brings back memories of crossing borders in the 50s with armed guards patrolling trains and stations. Stalin must have been right and we need to spend money on a form of KGB.)

How many houses in London will be up for sale on Monday?

Should help the shortage of housing. Good old fashion tory policy.

soros link
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36630468

Manuel,

Get back to you proper place at the sink.

I am glad you know who my "man" is.

I think that Corbyn didn't want to join Cameron on his pedestal, as he didn't want to dirty his hands by being seen to shake hands with Cameron.

I don't know enough about Corbyn, or what he thinking or preparing.

I may be wrong, but I him as an honest thinking principled man. Something which is missing in the present leadership of the Con party at the moment who are practising out of self-interest and for their place in political history.

But, many of the tory party voters or sycophants like you seem to be, admire the self-serving qualities of the latter.

How able is Corbyn? I don't know and find him difficult to judge. But, with a hostile bought right winged media and newspaper propaganda machine working overtime I think he is doing remarkably well.

I wonder what they are frightened of.

Time will tell, but certainly, at the moment he seems to have ideologies, policies and values which appeal to many younger voters.

Also, if we go into a further period of harsher austerity under another corrupt leadership, his views may be seen as suitable alternatives.

Well Fred, the labour party has gone back to its roots, and doing what it does best;

ie: Tearing itself apart

btw, wheres Haystack?

Shurely his period of mourning must be over by now.

Victim (3577)

"I wouldn't trust Merkel an inch all she's thinking about is BMW, Audi, VW,
Porcshe car sales over here"

Yes i'm glad she's thinking about all the sales that German car manufacturers
sell in the UK....That's why we will get a free trade agreement.

Fred1 (3582) In reply to Victim's "can't have another referendum because
you lost the last one"

"That was said in 1975"


The difference been that the vote in 1975 was for staying in the
'COMMON MARKET' totally different scenario to what this referendum
was about, being that now the EU being a political Union..

Victim (3577)

"I wouldn't trust Merkel an inch all she's thinking about is BMW, Audi, VW,
Porcshe car sales over hear"

Yes i'm glad she's thinking about all the sales that German car manufacturers
sell in the UK....That's why we will get a free trade agreement.

Fred1 (3582) (In reply to Victim's) "can't have another referendum because
you lost the last one"

"That was said in 1975"


The difference been that the vote in 1975 was for staying in the
'COMMON MARKET' totally different scenario to what this referendum
was about, being that now the EU being a political Union..

A bit of light relief.

'Hitler is told the UK have voted to Brexit the EU'

youtube. com/watch?v=m_SKe1YT5kO

Jeremy Corbyn's Labour Party is a cult. Even losing his shadow cabinet won't shake the faith of his disciples

If you want to know how badly and madly the Labour Party has gone wrong, consider this: the departure of shadow cabinet ministers such as Hilary Benn and Heidi Alexander (and more will surely follow) may well not be fatal to Jeremy Corbyn's leadership.

In other parties, in other times, losing the confidence of all but a handful of your parliamentary colleagues would end a leadership in days, or even hours. But Mr Corbyn is not a normal leader and he has made Labour into something far from a normal party.

Simply, parliamentary support is irrelevant to Mr Corbyn, just as devising a credible programme of government is irrelevant. He's not interested in leading a party that could govern. He wants Labour to become a protest movement, and he's already gone quite far towards achieving that goal.

Mr Corbyn remade Labour by bringing in tens of thousands of new members – possibly more than half the party had joined because of him since last summer. They are his constituency, the people he cares about. The millions of voters who do not belong to Labour, the millions whose votes are needed to put the party back in government are wholly irrelevant.

People like Mr Benn may worry about labour being unelectable under Mr Corbyn but they miss the point: Mr Corbyn has won the election he cares about, the one that made him leader.

It's quite likely that the membership will agree. As MPs try to oust him, Mr Corbyn will appeal to those members to protect and preserve his leadership. They'll probably do it, too. That's why the Labour MPs trying to remove him want to keep him off the ballot paper in any Labour leadership election: they know he'd almost certainly win again.

i wonder if fred actually knows what a sycophant is?

anyway, good to know fred is a man of principle - can vote but won't as a matter of same
what sort of a tosspot does that make him?

It is a crazy elephant surely.

I like the diversionary tactics of the tory party media outlets are diverting attention from their own fractious actions when being responsible for plunging the UK economics chaos.

A failed PM of a con artists' party manipulated as a puppet from the Cayman Isles and Panama.

A party which has been responsible for fragmenting the UK society into them and us, or those who have and the have-nots.

Destroyers, not builders, looking for a quick buck.

--====-==-==

Regard this madness.

View from Wales: town showered with EU cash votes to leave EU
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/25/view-wales-town-showered-eu-cash-votes-leave-ebbw-vale


It is madness!

More Labour MP's jumping ship..Lucy Powell, Ann Coffey, Lillian Greenwood,
Vernon Coaker, Gloria De Piero, Seema Malhotra, Etc, Etc, Etc...

There should now be just two parties representing the voters after the
referendum...Says Peter Hitchens in the Mail on Sunday.

Those that want to be in the EU and those that don't...

Quite true, because there is at least 80% of MP's who want to remain in
the EU, so they can not represent those who wish to LEAVE...

Angela and Maria Eagle, Chris Bryant, Vernon Coaker, Charlie Falconer still expected to resign.

Labour plotters' goal to force Corbyn to resign by making life difficult as possible - effectively going on strike, no support in PMQs etc

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36633238

Corbyn office 'sabotaged' EU Remain campaign - sources

And documents passed to the BBC suggest Jeremy Corbyn's office sought to delay and water down the Labour Remain campaign. Sources suggest that they are evidence of "deliberate sabotage".
One email from the leader's office suggests that Mr Corbyn's director of strategy and communications, Seumas Milne, was behind Mr Corbyn's reluctance to take a prominent role in Labour's campaign to keep the UK in the EU. One email, discussing one of the leader's speeches, said it was because of the "hand of Seumas. If he can't kill it, he will water it down so much to hope nobody notices it".
A series of messages dating back to December seen by the BBC shows correspondence between the party leader's office, the Labour Remain campaign and Labour HQ, discussing the European campaign. It shows how a sentence talking about immigration was removed on one occasion and how Mr Milne refused to sign off a letter signed by 200 MPs after it had already been approved.
The documents show concern in Labour HQ and the Labour Remain campaign about Mr Corbyn's commitment to the campaign - one email says: "What is going on here?" Another email from Labour Remain sources to the leader's office complains "there is no EU content here - we agreed to have Europe content in it". Sources say they show the leader's office was reluctant to give full support to the EU campaign and how difficult it was to get Mr Corbyn to take a prominent role.

Sounds like the tory party to me.

Ditch the Cameron. It was all his fault!

BS.