Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

I hope the Police find the lowlife responsible for the disgusting intimidation of decent families, just because they are from Poland. Many Poles died fighting alongside our airmen in WW2 and in any case we are better than that. Makes me want to vomit.

It was prolly a remainer anyway, it's too obvious for anyone but the terminally stupid.

I've nothing personal against any individual Polish or whoever, but when
you have millions coming into the country, and the Premier league being taken
over by foreign players, and having to watch another disgusting performance
by so called premier league footballer's, who have no ability or passion, then
there is something seriously wrong with the set-up and the country as an whole.

As to 'We should be thankful that the Poles came to our rescue in the second
world' is just another belittler to the British...

There was millions in Poland who just gave up, but you always get some
who wish to try and get their country back, they were the ones that came here
NOT to save us but to get their country back..After all it was a world war..

What about that, some think there is a chance of " The EU rolled ever onwards " and we have a second vote and remain after all

10 HOURS AGO by: Gideon Rachman at the FT.com
I do not believe that Brexit will happen
There will be howls of rage, but why should extremists on both sides dictate how the story ends?

All good dramas involve the suspension of disbelief. So it was with Brexit. I went to bed at 4am on Friday depressed that Britain had voted to leave the EU. The following day my gloom only deepened. But then, belatedly, I realised that I have seen this film before. I know how it ends. And it does not end with the UK leaving Europe.

Any long-term observer of the EU should be familiar with the shock referendum result. In 1992 the Danes voted to reject the Maastricht treaty. The Irish voted to reject both the Nice treaty in 2001 and the Lisbon treaty in 2008.

And what happened in each case? The EU rolled ever onwards. The Danes and the Irish were granted some concessions by their EU partners. They staged a second referendum. And the second time around they voted to accept the treaty. So why, knowing this history, should anyone believe that Britain’s referendum decision is definitive?

It is true that the British case has some novel elements. The UK has voted to leave the EU altogether. It is also a bigger economy than Ireland or Denmark, which changes the psychology of the relationship. And it is certainly true that the main actors in the drama seem to think it is for real. David Cameron, the UK prime minister, announced his resignation following the vote; and Jonathan Hill, Britain’s EU commissioner for financial services, has followed suit.

Yet there are already signs that Britain might be heading towards a second referendum rather than the door marked exit. Boris Johnson, a leader of the Leave campaign and Britain’s probable next prime minister, hinted at his real thinking back in February, when he said: “There is only one way to get the change we need — and that is to vote to go; because all EU history shows that they only really listen to a population when it says No.”

Having been a journalist in Brussels at the time of the Danish referendum on Maastricht, Mr Johnson is very familiar with the history of second referendums. It is also well known that he was never a diehard Leaver, and hesitated until the last moment before deciding which side to back.

His main goal was almost certainly to become prime minister; campaigning to leave the EU was merely the means to that end. Once Mr Johnson has entered 10 Downing Street, he can reverse his position on the EU.

But would our European partners really be willing to play along? Quite possibly. You could see that in the talk by Wolfgang Schäuble’s finance ministry in Germany of negotiating an “associate” membership status for Britain. In reality, the UK already enjoys a form of associate membership since it is not a participant in the EU’s single currency or the Schengen passport-free zone. Negotiating some further ways in which the country could distance itself from the hard core of the bloc, while keeping its access to the single market, would merely elaborate on a model that already exists.

Brexit: Rachman on geopolitical impactPlay video
And what kind of new concession should be offered? That is easy. What Mr Johnson would need to win a second referendum is an emergency brake on free movement of people, allowing the UK to limit the number of EU nationals moving to Britain if it has surged beyond a certain level.

In retrospect, it was a big mistake on the part of the EU not to give Mr Cameron exactly this concession in his renegotiation of the UK’s terms of membership early this year. It was the prime minister’s inability to promise that Britain could set an upper limit on immigration that probably ultimately lost him the vote.

Even so, with 48 per cent of voters opting to stay in the union, the result was extremely close. If the Remain campaign could fight a second referendum with a proper answer to the question of immigration it should be able to win fairly easily.

But why should Europe grant Britain any such a concession on free movement? Because, despite all the current irritations, the British are valuable members of the EU. The UK is a big contributor to the budget and it is a serious military and diplomatic power.

Just as it will be painful for the UK to lose access to the EU’s internal market, so it will be painful for the EU to lose access to the British labour market. More than 3m EU nationals live and work in Britain, with more than 800,000 from Poland alone.

Agreeing to an emergency brake on free movement of people might mean some modest limits to future migration. But that would surely be better than the much harsher restrictions that could follow a complete British withdrawal from the EU.

Of course, there would be howls of anger on both sides of the Channel if any such deal is struck. The diehard Leavers in Britain would cry betrayal, while the diehard federalists in the European Parliament — who want to punish the UK and press on with “political union” in Europe — will also resist any new offer.

But there is no reason to let the extremists on both sides of the debate dictate how this story has to end. There is a moderate middle in both Britain and Europe that should be capable of finding a deal that keeps the UK inside the EU.

Like all good dramas, the Brexit story has been shocking, dramatic and upsetting. But its ending is not yet written.

https://next.ft.com/content/8f2aca88-3c51-11e6-9f2c-36b487ebd80a

It is now the general consensus that we are to weak and feeble to stand
on our own two feet.

Yes that is now correct, this country has being feminised to the extent
that we are looked on as a soft touch...

The scum channel BBC are still in pro-eu brainwashing mode...

The sooner that house of anti English/British vipers is shut down or
privatised the better...

Don't the population realise that they're paying for the privilege of
being brainwashed...

That certainly is the view of a moderate.

Especially the night after being knocked over by a snowball.

The Ghost will arise.

-=-===

The FTSE is blue today. The doom mongers will not be pleased. It's not supposed to be this way.

Osbourne says a Remain supporter could lead Cons , please no stitch up , this is the sort of thing we didn't want surely .

Ozzy can say what he wants, no ones listening.

I am!

8-)

I'm pleased about the result....but Cameron should not have brought this referendum in without realising fully the consequences....now it's done he's wondering how on earth or why this chaos is happening......strange but there are a few similarities with the England football team......

The establishment are already closing ranks, including those who
backed LEAVE.

The stitch up is in the planning stage..

June 23
Front page of Germany's Bild:

"Dear Britain, if you stay in the EU...
We will acknowledge the Wembley goal.
We won't make any more jokes about Prince Charles' ears.
We won't wear sun cream on the beach in solidarity with your sunburn.
We will go without our goalkeeper at the next penalty shootout to make it more exciting.
We will introduce tea time, with buckets on the beaches of Majorca.
We will willingly provide the villain in every Bond film.
We'll start "ticking" like you and put our clocks back by an hour.
We'll put through an EU directive which forbids foam on our beer.
We'll reserve sun loungers around the pool for you with our towels.
Jogi Löw will guard your crown jewels.
We will come to your Queen's 100th birthday."

How very nice of them. Pity it's now too late. Jogi Löw looks like a wimp, anyhow.

European SUPERSTATE to be unveiled: EU nations 'to be morphed into one' post-Brexit

EUROPEAN political chiefs are to take advantage of Brexit by unveiling their long-held plan to morph the continent’s countries into one GIANT SUPERSTATE, it has emerged yesterday.



By Nick Gutteridge

PUBLISHED: 02:01, Tue, Jun 28, 2016 | UPDATED: 07:45, Tue, Jun 28, 2016



The foreign ministers of France and Germany are due to reveal a blueprint to effectively do away with individual member states in what is being described as an “ultimatum”.

Under the radical proposals EU countries will lose the right to have their own army, criminal law, taxation system or central bank, with all those powers being transferred to Brussels.

Controversially member states would also lose what few controls they have left over their own borders, including the procedure for admitting and relocating refugees.

The plot has sparked fury and panic in Poland - a traditional ally of Britain in the fight against federalism - after being leaked to Polish news channel TVP


The public broadcaster reports that the bombshell proposal will be presented to a meeting of the Visegrad group of countries - made up of Poland, the Czech Republic, Hungary and Slovakia - by German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier later today.

Excerpts of the nine-page report were published today as the leaders of Germany, France and Italy met in Berlin for Brexit crisis talks.

In the preamble to the text the two ministers write: "Our countries share a common destiny and a common set of values ??that give rise to an even closer union between our citizens. We will therefore strive for a political union in Europe and invite the next Europeans to participate in this venture."



More: http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/683739/EU-referendum-German-French-European-superstate-Brexit

That's horrendous Maxk . just think we would have been subjected to this .

It is the express V, but it's not hard to see.

They have been setting up the trappings of a superstate for a long time, all without the consent of the people.

Sounds like alarmism to me. Who are the next Europeans? None left that I can make out. I assume they are talking about themselves and inviting the tiny other states in the EU to join.... something. I assume also that they have not consulted their own citizens on the grand scheme. Maybe a good idea to do away with national elections and referendums at the same time. Very inconvenient for such visionaries.
Anyhow, it has nowt to do with us anymore. Let them get on with it.

If this has semblance of truth there will be mass demonstrations in these countries .