Will this increase or decrease the likelihood of terrorist actions in America, Europe and the rest of the world?

If you were a member of a family murdered in this conflict, would you be seeking revenge?

Should Tzipi Livni and Ehud Olmert, be tried for war crimes if or when this conflict comes to an end?

What will the price of oil be in 4 weeks time?

All I said in that post was "The problems with the American indians occured hundreds of years ago." I did not discuss whether the indians were legally disenfranchised by the white man because it happened so long ago. I don't think that anyway. I just said that it was too long ago to be relevant. We are disussing something that is going on today, tomorrow and in the lifetime of the people involved.

There were more than 1 million refugees that Israel forced from their land between 1949 and now. With their descendants that is now 4.6 million. Without the right of return and the return of their land, there will be no solution. It is not just Hamas that insists on the return of refugees. It is also the PLO and the Palestinian Authority who have been conducting peace talks. There is a growing call to deligitimise Israel from many parts of the world. It is a useful tool to isolate Israel as is the growing boycott of their goods.

Richard, I do wonder why you bother to attempt rational debate with Haystack; he has demonstrated on many occasions when proven wrong he ignores the correction and scoots off on another tangent. Impossible to have a sensible discussion.

i agree and shan't bother now the markets have re-opened - as has my office, or at least for me single-handed! ..... better things to do, but he really is such a total baboon

It is easy to attack the messenger when you don't agree with the message. I make a point of not attacking any of the poster on here. It is too easy for them to resort to abuse instead of addressing the real problems. I have seen nothing so far to pursuade me that there will be a peaceful solution that does not involved Israel return huge areas of land. Many groups would like to have Israel pull back to 1949 borders. That is probably unrealistic. Hamas does not go that far. It wants 1967 borders, the withdrawl of all settlements and the return of refugees.

N,

ITLOTB - I hear what you say.

Are you certain about that?

There are medications for overcoming this sort of problem!

8-)
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Cynic,


Posting 3944 of 3951
Let's hope that the Israeli government stops settlement expansion and that is reciprocated by moves on the Palestinian side. .... couldn't agree more, especially with the first part ..... israel's continued aggressive expansion is intentionally highly provocative and immediately torpedoes any moves towards peace in the region .... of course, america could, if its gov't had the balls, stop all sorts of massive aid that is poured into israel, without harming israel's ability to defend itself .... that might well concentrate a few minds and at least lend real teeth to the inane political claptrap
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Sometimes you worry me, by appearing quite sensible.

I think as you appear to state, America could be more effective and pull the strings a little tighter on Israel.

But, unfortunately, the Jewish political lobby in the USA is as mislead, as many of the Israeli administration are.
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PS.
There are obvious periods in recent history, when there has been a return of sovereignty back to national and cultural groups.

The obvious period was the breakup of the Soviet Union and the return of rule and government to the indigenous people of the previously annexed countries. E.g. Poland, East Germany, Hungary, Slovakia, etc..

(History, can be repeated in similar ways and various models.)

(Have a look at Alsace its varying borders.)

=============================

This suggests that changes and possibly solutions can be found.

The questions I would like answered are:

1) Which groups of the population gets disproportionately killed or maimed in the hostilities and conflicts?

2) Which groups within the borders of the conflict gain the most by not resolving the problems?

3) Which groups outside the borders of the conflict gain the most by not resolving the problems?

4) What advantages are there for the mass of the populations within the areas following cessation of hostilities?

(Think of Iraq and consider whether the population as a whole has benefited from the murders carry out in the name of peace by Blair and Bush.

Consider whether Blair has benefited from their actions?)

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.

Haystack

It is easy to attack the messenger when you don't agree with the message. A valid point under normal circumstances. But I'm afraid that in your case, you as the messenger seem every bit as confused as the message you seek to convey.

Perhaps you could rethink your message and try to lay it out clearly, one point at a time, each with reasoned and unbiased evidence-based argument?

The parrot says "I make a point of not attacking any of the poster on here"

In post 3904 he said, "The only rabdi dog here is IOTLOTB"

As usual, you distort, twist and outright lie.

I was flattered, though LOL

I don't regard you as a poster as you never have anything to contribute. You are more like something extraneous such as belly button fluff.

Address the question instead of hiding behind what you quaintly think are insults, even if they are faintly amusing.
Please note that I will desist from suggesting the parrot is overly familiar with belly button fluff because he is constituted from such material from the neck up.
It certainly isn't because he's a naval doctor.

or even navel! ..... f'ed it up didn't ya

No, I found that in a Christmas cracker, so it must be right ;)
The girl said what do you do and the guy replied I'm a Naval doctor.
Oooh, she said, I didn't know you doctors were so specialised.

outsourced printing - can't imagine where!

I'll leave the f'ing up to freddie no brains and his intellectually inferior feathered friend.

Printing probably by "Eyeless in Gaza".

The problem with your posts is that they never address the problems and are always abusive. You somehow naively believe that being anti Israel is being anti semetic. That alone precludes you from sensible discussions.

Some people are opposed to some actions of the Israeli govt. That is a legitimate view to hold.
Some are plainly anti-semitic and use anti-Israel sentiments as a cloak.
You and your intellectual superior are in the latter camp.

not quite certain that's true, but sure as hell he don't think too good (grammar and adverbs not understood on this BB!)

Well, that's all to the good, but don't insult ALL members on this BB just because two are one storey short of a bungalow and think syntax is a govt levy on homosexual couples.

ITLOTB
You are incorrect in thinking that I am anti-semitic. I see no connection with Israel and Judaeism as regards their behaviour. The Arab countries do not oppose Israel because it is a Jewish state. In fact I have not come across anti-Israel campaigners that are anti-semitic. I am sure that you are right in some sense that there are some, but they would be in the minority. The only group that indicates the link between anti-Israel sentiments and anti-semitism is Israel itself and its supporters particularly in the US. It is used as a device to reduce the impact of anti-Israel feeling. I am surprised that you fall for this type of propaganda.