Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

so it's "crook cameron" preceded by "gold robber brown", preceded by "crook and war criminal blair", preceded by "industrial and social rapist thatcher" and so on and so forth back through history

don't be so stupid and pathetic!

Ohhh shut up cynic and get back to your treasure hunt.

Cameron In The DO DO.......

Across the political spectrum, politicians said Cameron had opened up a question that will be hard to solve quickly because of partisan political differences and could hand an electoral gift to populists such as the anti-EU UK Independence Party (UKIP). Such wrangling also risks political paralysis.

Failure to deliver greater powers to English MPs could leave Cameron vulnerable to the electoral threat of UKIP, whose leader Nigel Farage promised to champion English voters.

"CRUMBS OF CHANGE"

So far, much of the criticism has come from Cameron's own MPs, who have already begun to complain that his promises to Scots are too generous and his pledges to England too limited and hard to deliver.

"The chaotic manner in which the 'No' vote was won has undermined the strong and strong and resilient United Kingdom on which we all depend," Owen Paterson, a Conservative lawmaker and a former minister, said in a statement.

"Such a lopsided constitutional settlement cannot last; it is already causing real anger across England. If not resolved fairly for all the constituent parts of the UK for the long term, it will fall apart."

Conservative lawmaker Andrew Percy said Cameron's proposal to allow only parliamentarians from English constituencies to vote on English matters was welcome, but wasn't enough.

"Now it's England's turn for a say and we won't settle with being fobbed off with a few crumbs of change," he said. "That means a proper conversation about an English Parliament, English Executive and English First Minister."

Boris Johnson, the mayor of London and a potential successor to Cameron as leader of the Conservative party, said Cameron's promise to maintain Scotland's current funding deal - which means Scots get substantially more government money spent on them per head than the English - was "slightly reckless" and shouldn't be honoured in its current form.

Rob Wood, Chief UK Economist at investment bank Berenberg, said in a research note there was "likely to be a backlash from MPs (members of parliament) against particularly Prime Minister Cameron for guaranteeing generous funding and more powers for Scotland without consulting parliament.

"The same may be true for non-Scottish voters. That brings risks with it," he said.

(Reporting by William James and Kylie MacLellan; Additional reporting by William Schomberg; Writing by Andrew Osborn; Editing by Peter Graff)

The 2010 GE result without Scottish MPs was

Tory: 306 seats; Labour: 217 seats; Lib Dem: 46 seats

If you ignore Welsh MP - Labour 26, Conservative 8, Liberal 3, Plaid Cymru 3

then you get

Tory 298, Labour 191, Lib 43

GF,

I think Cameron is a gerrymandering Spiv.

I think the majority of the UK and certainly EU think of him as a self advancing liar only interested in furthering himself and those his own ilk.

----

The proposals he seems to be advancing have not been mandated and will not be acceptable to his own party leave alone the Libs and Labour.

He is posturing again for party political reasons and cannot hope to get the measures through parliament.

I think he is lying or u-turning again and is becoming more and more an embarrassment to his own party of con merchants, but seems to appeal to the Hazeone.

There will be an effect on Scottish labour party and membership will disperse to a certain degree to the minor parties, but would expect that the effect on Labour in the rest of the UK will be to make them more antagonistic to the Conning/tories and encourage them to turn out and vote Labour.

Guess work, but I see after the chaos that Cameron is producing it is likely to happen.

======

Manuel,

Post 46008.

It appears to me, the difference between Brown and the others, he didn't take the actions he did, for his own personal gain, or those of his "friends".

There are interesting possibilities for a Lab government. They might win an election and be unable to pass the budget due to being in a minority in an English assembly. Having read several papers today with correspondents who have spoken to senior Labour members, it seems that they are in quite a panic, especially with the Lab conference starting today.

fred - great shame about your permanently dyspepsic and jaundiced views, but i don't think any prime minister in this country for at least the last century and more has ever done other than endeavoured to do his best for the country

history, with the infallible benefit of hindsight, may sometimes make harsher judgement

I heard a very good comment today.

"If voting changed anything important, it would have been stopped a long time ago".

Manuel,

For the majority of PMs your statement may be true, but that leaves those with blinkered view about what is best for the country and by what is best for their "own".

Some were self deceiving and plausible, the others who I think are in the same ilk as I consider Cameron to be, are aware of the effects of their decisions and are self serving and are chancers.

I would place Blair in the former group and even consider him to be delusional.

Possibly, for me, the least delusional would have been MacMillan, Major, Wilson and Atlee and possibly Heath.

But according to your character you make your choices.

hmm! i choose to disagree but then i am not half as cynical as you

as i wrote previously, history has infallible hindsight, but the individual at the time will almost certainly have acted in good faith in what (s)he saw as the best interests of the country

Salmond already saying camoron as reneged on his promise.

Trouble for the tories.

The genie is out of the bottle....




You say YES to English votes for English laws: MoS poll shows fury over handouts to Scots

Two in three English voters say MPs in Scottish seats should be banned from voting on English laws at Westminster

A mere one in five oppose the move, which would see home rule powers handed to Scotland matched in England

A total of 70 per cent say decision to hand powers to Scots was made during a 'panic', and only 16 per cent disagree

The majority of English voters want their own referendum before more of their cash is transferred to Edinburgh

One in five English voters say Andy Murray’s support for independence means they are less likely to support him



By Simon Walters for The Mail on Sunday

Published: 22:28, 20 September 2014 | Updated: 08:12, 21 September 2014








More: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2763698/You-say-YES-English-votes-English-laws-MoS-poll-shows-fury-handouts-Scots.html

Salmond saying g that Tories have reneged on his promise is good for Cameron. Don't forget that the Conservatives only have 1 seat in Scotland! Maybe Scotland will punish them at the GE. The opposite is true in England. The English voters will be very pleased with Cameron.

It is Labour, who will be punished in Scotland at the GE. Labour are seen as spearheading the NO vote. They are also now delaying the extra powers for Scotland by not wanting to allocate extra powers to England.

All the signs are that Labour is in a complete panic. I am watching Miliband at the moment and he is been given thumping by Andrew Marr.

Someone has set up a Twitter account called odd miliband full of pictures of Ed.

Here is a sample

Och, 3 wheels outta 4’s nae si bad

Haze,

You are retired and belong in the past.

Your views don't coincide with many others of Miliband.

Many find him sensible, intelligent and that he considers policies with his “shadow cabinet”, rather than writing them down a back of a fag paper like Cameron does, expecting his sycophantic cabinet spout his mantra like a publicity stunt.

The problem Cameron increasingly has is that the public and his party are realising that the "bright ideas" spouted yesterday by the cons has already been changed by the time they have been broadcast and distrust Cameron and henchmen more and more.

Cameron is stunted and his immaturity is showing more and more with his passionate, caring, posturing appearing more and more false.

There is going to be a back-lash to him Osborne and IDS who are seen as the representatives of the present tory party.

Miliband, not the most charismatic of leaders, neither was Attlee, but the latter was thoughtful and controlled his party, as is Miliband

His policies generally seem to be made in a consensually manner and reflect the needs and views of society as whole.


He doesn't have to huff and puff, he comes over as sensible and I expect he will modify his speech making, making his delivery more dynamic or vibrant, without losing his sincerity as the GE comes near. There is no hurry while Cameron continues to shoot himself in the foot.

However, he has to overcome the vicious right wing press, (who have appear to some to have bought the Con party, possibly in the hope for future favours), who are attempting to besmirch him and his colleagues.

However, I would certainly think that Miliband and colleagues and advisors around him are looking and examining the crass stupidity of the present government administration in many of it policies and decision making, in order not to make similar mistakes.

The public outside London have been disgruntled, dissatisfied and demoralised by the policies and actions of the present government and realising they have be sold a "pup".

They are beginning to re-organise and express their frustrations.

=====-


I think, that some of the labour party in Scotland may go for the smaller and more "left wing" (social democratic) parties when they vote at the G.E,. However, if necessary they would probably unite with Labour to form a coalition government for the UK, in order to see the back of the tory regime and introduce the necessary reforms of the UK "governing" system and its "financing" are necessary.

But the changes have to be thought out, rather than rammed through for party political gain as being attempted by Cameron’s little reactionary tory englanders in order to keep themselves in power.

Also, I think that Cameron knew he could not deliver what he promised and signed up to, and was lying deliberately, or else he is a bigger fool than many suspected.

Millibum puts his foot in it......



Self-government for England lights a fire under Labour Party

Ed Miliband looks like going into a general election with an untenable position on Scottish MPs voting at Westminster







By Iain Martin

7:05AM BST 21 Sep 2014




In the early hours of Friday morning, Scottish Labour was in a mood to party. To the fore of the Better Together audience gathered in the ballroom of a Glasgow hotel were many of the Labour activists and strategists who had thrown everything into persuading Scots not to break up the United Kingdom. Although Glasgow had voted Yes, most of the rest of the results showed that the voters had made a clear decision to stick with the Union. Alistair Darling, the leader of Better Together, gave a conciliatory speech to the assembled throng when it became clear that No had officially crossed the winning line. The wine flowed and spirits soared.


After Friday’s party, here comes the hangover. Labour activists and MPs turn up in Manchester today for their annual conference facing a constitutional crisis.


What should be a pre-election rally, with the party’s leader Ed Miliband getting airtime on questions such as the economy and the health service, looks likely to be overshadowed by a bitter row about proper representation for England. Although Scotland voted No to full independence, the devolved Parliament in Edinburgh will get a range of new powers. In return, and after so much concentration on Scotland, English Tory MPs in particular are asking: what about some justice for England?


While Scotland has its own Parliament, its MPs still get to vote on laws that only affect England. This is what is known as the West Lothian Question, which was popularised by the veteran Labour figure Tam Dalyell in the 1970s and first coined by Enoch Powell. How could it be right, they asked, that under devolution a voter in West Lothian would elect an MP who would get to vote on English laws when English MPs had no say on Scottish laws?


In the wake of Thursday’s historic referendum, David Cameron has already proposed a bar on Scottish MPs voting on English laws at Westminster, with MPs from outside England restricted to voting on matters of common concern, such as foreign affairs.



Long-ish article: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11110733/Self-government-for-England-lights-a-fire-under-Labour-Party.html

Just look at Hays over the last few days like a big kid with candy.

His and the Tories only way of getting back into power is to cheat their way there.

It seems that its ingrained in them, they have to win at any cost and if they cant do it legit do it by cheating.

Well Hays I have news for you , you havent a chance of getting away with what you want.

Wouldnt suprise me if thier were riots in Scotland and here in England and we all know who to blame for that ......CAMORON.

Update - Labour lead at 5
by YouGov in Politics
Sun September 21, 2014 6 a.m. BST

Latest YouGov / Sunday Times results 19th Sept - Con 31%, Lab 36%, LD 7%, UKIP 16%;