Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

Cameron's mistake was having the referendum. Apart from that he was an excellent PM.

i would not rate DC very highly, though he should not be blamed for his inability to get any meaningful concessions from the eu plutocracy ..... i'm afraid that quest was always going to be a lost cause

I am hoping this will end 20 years of what i like to call arrogant politics ,starting with Blair and finishing with Cameron and his silly little sidekick Osbourne .

They have had complete contempt for the general public and as i kept saying on here we were going to vote leave ,everywhere i went and spoke to normal people ,that was the general feeling but they didn't get it in their London bubble did they ?

I am hoping that we will have Brexit and they (whoever they may be in future) will listen to the electorate .
The people have spoken ,these are public servants they do not rule over us.

Come on Hays. Give us a few examples of why you consider Carney brilliant.
As for Cameron and Osborne: I consider Osborne more intelligent than Cameron and he was a good chancellor; Cameron was good against a crummy opposition but too liberal in my view. Little wonder he and Cleggy got on so well.
Having said that, Theresa May looks like she "may" knock the socks off both of them.

I thought U-turn Wavy Dave was just another tory catastrophe.

Not fit to govern, but a born leader of the con party.

To be seen in history as a failure.

the electorate would also vote to bring back hanging

for better or worse, the tories found themselves backed into a corner where there had to be a referendum
the blinkered would never be swayed, but those of a thinking disposition were left with much to ponder, with good arguments on both sides

I think the present tory party would vote for the corpse of Maggie, before Cameron or Osborne, if she was put up for their leadership of their party.

Hoping for the recall of the British Empire.

Laughable, if it wasn't serious.

Your in your element now Freda tearing the Cons apart , eh . Got your hankie on your head have you in the sun .

Laughable, if it wasn't serious
surely even more applicable to the shambolic events within the labour party as it tries desperately to re-form itself as the socialist workers party

Poor old fella .

At least the labour party seems to fight its battles face to face rather the chosen knifing in the back as the cons do.

Mind that is down to poor education.

What like the Miliband's?

What person said Turkey was not joining the EU?

Well they are not but 3 million of the citizens are the bargaining chip to keep other than Syrian migrants out of Europe.

That has been the case for a while now, but now Turkey are trying to blackmail the EU into submission according to this newspaper report.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/697699/EU-behaviour-Tayyip-Erdogan-European-Union-Turkey-collapse

That article us just about visa free travel for the small number of Turks with E-passports. They will not be able to work and is just for tourism. They can come here already but have to get a visa. No indication of joining EU.

You have to realise that the Express is a comic

Martini,

Do you have a brother you genuflect to?

"You have to realise that the Express is a comic"

Haystacks world revolves around the FT and Wall St Journal, along with the in
house 'Conservative Monthly', so is oblivious to the 'real' world.

The Express is not the real world. There are plenty of newspapers to read better than that. It has a reputation of printing made up stories for sensationalism. It is the last paper to believe.

You can't expect to be taken seriously If you quote the Express.

Buy the Mail, Telegraph or the Times.

You will have the truth then!

LOL.

Europe[edit]
Macmillan worked with states outside the European Economic Community (EEC) to form the European Free Trade Association (EFTA), which from 3 May 1960 established a free-trade area. Macmillan also saw the value of rapprochement with the EEC, to which his government sought belated entry, but Britain's application was vetoed by French president Charles de Gaulle on 29 January 1963. De Gaulle was always strongly opposed to British entry for many reasons. He sensed the British were inevitably closely linked to the Americans. He saw the EEC as a continental arrangement primarily between France and Germany, and if Britain joined France's role would diminish.[1

Philip Hammond is to guarantee billions of pounds of UK government investment after Brexit for projects currently funded by the EU, including science grants and agricultural subsidies.
The chancellor’s funding commitment is designed to give a boost to the economy in what he expects to be a difficult period after the surprise result of the EU referendum in June.
The Treasury is expected to continue its funding beyond the UK’s departure from the EU for all structural and investment fund projects, as long as they are agreed before the autumn statement. If a project obtains EU funding after that, an assessment process by the Treasury will determine whether funding should be guaranteed by the UK government post-Brexit.
Current levels of agriculture funding will also be guaranteed until 2020, when the Treasury says there will be a “transition to new domestic arrangements”.

Now all that seems fair enough and clear enough to anyone of normal intellect. But the usual crowd of Mackay, Jones and McDonnell continue rabitting on about it not being enough. It is in their DNA I suppose to want to live off the state forever, regardless of the consequences.