Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

Come on Hays. Give us a few examples of why you consider Carney brilliant.
As for Cameron and Osborne: I consider Osborne more intelligent than Cameron and he was a good chancellor; Cameron was good against a crummy opposition but too liberal in my view. Little wonder he and Cleggy got on so well.
Having said that, Theresa May looks like she "may" knock the socks off both of them.

I thought U-turn Wavy Dave was just another tory catastrophe.

Not fit to govern, but a born leader of the con party.

To be seen in history as a failure.

the electorate would also vote to bring back hanging

for better or worse, the tories found themselves backed into a corner where there had to be a referendum
the blinkered would never be swayed, but those of a thinking disposition were left with much to ponder, with good arguments on both sides

I think the present tory party would vote for the corpse of Maggie, before Cameron or Osborne, if she was put up for their leadership of their party.

Hoping for the recall of the British Empire.

Laughable, if it wasn't serious.

Your in your element now Freda tearing the Cons apart , eh . Got your hankie on your head have you in the sun .

Laughable, if it wasn't serious
surely even more applicable to the shambolic events within the labour party as it tries desperately to re-form itself as the socialist workers party

Poor old fella .

At least the labour party seems to fight its battles face to face rather the chosen knifing in the back as the cons do.

Mind that is down to poor education.

What like the Miliband's?

What person said Turkey was not joining the EU?

Well they are not but 3 million of the citizens are the bargaining chip to keep other than Syrian migrants out of Europe.

That has been the case for a while now, but now Turkey are trying to blackmail the EU into submission according to this newspaper report.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/697699/EU-behaviour-Tayyip-Erdogan-European-Union-Turkey-collapse

That article us just about visa free travel for the small number of Turks with E-passports. They will not be able to work and is just for tourism. They can come here already but have to get a visa. No indication of joining EU.

You have to realise that the Express is a comic

Martini,

Do you have a brother you genuflect to?

"You have to realise that the Express is a comic"

Haystacks world revolves around the FT and Wall St Journal, along with the in
house 'Conservative Monthly', so is oblivious to the 'real' world.

The Express is not the real world. There are plenty of newspapers to read better than that. It has a reputation of printing made up stories for sensationalism. It is the last paper to believe.

You can't expect to be taken seriously If you quote the Express.

Buy the Mail, Telegraph or the Times.

You will have the truth then!

LOL.

Europe[edit]
Macmillan worked with states outside the European Economic Community (EEC) to form the European Free Trade Association (EFTA), which from 3 May 1960 established a free-trade area. Macmillan also saw the value of rapprochement with the EEC, to which his government sought belated entry, but Britain's application was vetoed by French president Charles de Gaulle on 29 January 1963. De Gaulle was always strongly opposed to British entry for many reasons. He sensed the British were inevitably closely linked to the Americans. He saw the EEC as a continental arrangement primarily between France and Germany, and if Britain joined France's role would diminish.[1

Philip Hammond is to guarantee billions of pounds of UK government investment after Brexit for projects currently funded by the EU, including science grants and agricultural subsidies.
The chancellor’s funding commitment is designed to give a boost to the economy in what he expects to be a difficult period after the surprise result of the EU referendum in June.
The Treasury is expected to continue its funding beyond the UK’s departure from the EU for all structural and investment fund projects, as long as they are agreed before the autumn statement. If a project obtains EU funding after that, an assessment process by the Treasury will determine whether funding should be guaranteed by the UK government post-Brexit.
Current levels of agriculture funding will also be guaranteed until 2020, when the Treasury says there will be a “transition to new domestic arrangements”.

Now all that seems fair enough and clear enough to anyone of normal intellect. But the usual crowd of Mackay, Jones and McDonnell continue rabitting on about it not being enough. It is in their DNA I suppose to want to live off the state forever, regardless of the consequences.

just as is striking by the RMT and (nowadays) the BMA

Revealed: False claims by thousands of illegal immigrants clog asylum system - METRO

Claims: Labour's Keith Vaz said it was 'deeply concerning' that a third of all asylum applications had been made by illegal migrants and overstayers PA
Concerns have been raised about abuse of the asylum application process after figures showed tens of thousands seeking sanctuary in the UK were already living here illegally or had overstayed their visas.

Between 2005 and 2014, 83,912 asylum claims were made by people "encountered by local immigration and enforcement staff" - meaning they did not apply as soon as they arrived in Britain or when they thought it was unsafe to return home, as set out by immigration rules.

A total of 11,035 of those claims were made in 2014, the latest year for which Home Office figures were available, compared with just 2,150 in 2005. The 2014 figure was the highest for the decade.

Just 13,892 were granted asylum, while 5,388 received another form of immigration status. The claims of the vast majority (48,489) were refused.

Commons Home Affairs Select Committee chairman Keith Vaz told the Times, which analysed the figures: "It is deeply concerning that a third of all asylum applications have been made by illegal migrants and overstayers.

"The very principle of seeking asylum is that you feel persecuted at the time you arrive, not saying you feel persecuted after arriving illegally or for different reasons and then remaining in the country until you are apprehended.

"This is a significant clog in the immigration system, and we should ensure that this is not to the detriment of vulnerable people with a legitimate claim of asylum. It is one thing for the Government to say it's tough on illegal immigration - it's another to actually take control of issues like these."

A spokeswoman for the Refugee Council said delayed asylum claims were not necessarily false.

Advocacy manager Anna Musgrave said: "It's misguided to believe that asylum claims which aren't made immediately are somehow invalid.

"People's circumstances can change as in the case of Syrian students and business people who were in the UK when war erupted in their country and they found themselves unable to return when their visas ran out.

"Obviously decisions on asylum claims must be based on whether or not someone's life is at risk, not on arbitrary timescales."

One of the questions asked by immigration "enforcement" when apprehending these individuals is "do you wish to apply for asylum in this country?" Many will try it on. Nothing to lose. They will be requested to visit a centre every month while their application is processed but just disappear again until the next time they are caught. And so it goes on.