Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

They really are in a terrible state .

It just shows you jimmy they are not interested in what the people want , they are on another Planet when they get elected , as in Merkel who by the way had a hammering in elections at the weekend .

Arrogant politics is coming to an end hopefully VIC we must stop these politicians who just don't listen .
I couldn't believe Owen Smith on the Marr show ,he obviously just wants to do what he wants to do , the likes of these people must never be elected again .

I think the EU may have a lot to do with it the way they throw money about on themselves and others . It must be obvious to all and sundry and that's what the rest want .

JB,

You have elections approximately every 5years where the public express their opinion/s.

Some vote tory and some vote for other way and also change the "minds" or opinions as they mature.

Parliamentary vote will allow for policy changes from one period to another and also the revision of previously implemented policies.

Government is to degree evolutionary and stutters from time to time.


That is the current form of "democracy" and the form of "government" we have in the UK."


That could be said as allowing for movement with time and circumstances, and certainly, I would prefer this form of democracy than having opinions being set in stone and unchangeable.

I think the result of the referendum represented general disillusionment and frustration and wanting to hold others responsible for their own problems, rather than understanding the workings, aim, goals and benefits of being in the EU and the likely price of extraditing the UK from the organisation.


Smith, I know little about. He comes over as lightweight and less than pragmatic. But reading his CV I think I am probably underestimating him.

At the moment many of labour party MPs come over as overgrown maladjusted children grumbling that they are not getting enough of the cakes and trying to break the party up.

They are like the tories caught up in their own wishes, desires and progression up the greasy pole, rather than the overall good of the people they are supposed to represent.

What's his CV got to do with the fact he doesn't listen to the ones who matter most , the voters . But he's Labour in the end isn't he , but May is a Witch and only been there months she's getting nothing out of you is she .

Article 50 Should be implemented now.

Deal with the consequences instead of shilly shallying around the issue.

Footnote as to why Little Englander voted out. Hungary today being told what they can

and cant do with who strolls across there land. I am sure those in Budapest never

envisaged free movement being what they have have now. Sold an illusion like we all

were.

Fred ............

I think the result of the referendum represented general disillusionment and frustration and wanting to hold others responsible for their own problems...

I hold Blair and others responsible for the problems we face , i voted out because of mass immigration among other issues ,i want it stopped and yes i hold those politicians responsible .

Vic.

Perhaps he is listening to those he hopes are listening to him.

But like many on this board, more are interested in an immediate sound bite and satisfaction rather forward long-term planning and sensible development.

Like getting out of the EU, but without plans, contracts or deals of how to deal with the problems they are creating.

Loud mouths, shouting with little idea how to obtain their phantasy goals.

Independence from what, control by whom, better than what. WORDS.


-=-===-=

Dumbo.

At the present time, the UK economy benefits from immigration.

Does it need modification and some limitations? Probably, yes.

-====-=

But as the UK's economy falters as is thought, I would expect the UK to be less attractive to immigrants.

So exiting the EU, will fix that for everybody.

fred - to put it very simplistically, a good number are/were totally disillusioned with the way EU is now operated
the concept of an economic union was indeed sound, but this drive towards a federal Europe is totally unacceptable (to me) for all sorts of reasons

i know you disagree, as is your privilege, but i can see no way that anything fundamental would ever change had UK voted to remain within the confines

Whether anything can be achieved from outside remains to be seen, but at least UK will no longer be ruled by Brussels rather than by our own legislature

"I think the results of the referendum represented general disillusionment
and frustration and wanting to hold others responsible for their own problems,
rather than understanding the workings, aims, and benefits of being in the EU"

Please enlighten us all on these workings, aims, and benefits...And what are..
"hold others responsible for their own problems".....Who caused these problems
that we don't want to take responsibility for?..


Please give us THREE reasons why we should('ve) remain in the EU, because if
we had remained in the EU, then there would NOT have been any reforms, the
EU would've had no compunction to do so, in fact they would have gone cart'blance
on further integration...WILL YOU PRO-EU FANATICS GET THAT??...FOOLS!!

GB - you can't ask fred to answer a question and then give him certain responses that he mustn't use because you (rabidly) disagree!
and just because you are a rabid brexiter, it does not not mean that those who wished to remain were lacking in grey matter and powers of analysis and due consideration

indeed, your labelling of people being fools can apply equally to the rabids on either side

Yes he can cynic , why does Fred start every response to my posts with Dumbo ? i have a view does that make me a fool , in Fred's arrogant eyes it does .

can't help what fred calls you :-)

Fish Face !!!

Now children, this is getting like a Corbyn v Smith debate. :-)

Well at least i can give numerous reasons we should LEAVE, unlike the
remainers who can't give one, except to say 'more in hope' then reality,
that if we'd stayed in we could've drove reform from the inside..LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!...

Reminds me of a hungry man looking across a moat at a castle with its drawbridge up where a party is being held and wondering if he can swim across to the other side, and wondering to himself, whether they will hear him if he knocks on the walls.

But as he has done similar before, he also wonders whether they will find it too much bother and ignore him, especially when he was always grumbling at the rules hoping he could break their parties up.

-===-

Patience he says to himself, with hope, I will go and eat in somebody else's garden.

They will either welcome or rob me.

Seeing as the UK import more from the EU then we export to them, its
them that's robbing us, and them that's gatecrashing our party!

very 1001 Nights fred