Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

i am certainly no super brain nor have ever pretended to be such
however, even the most militant of trades unions know full well that compromise is required in any negotiation
the ideal is when both parties end up unhappy

I can't see who was being simplistic this morning ,except Fred posting his cartoons ,i think everyone is well aware of the deal ahead and it won't be easy ,however like others who voted out i believe any knocks will be worth it in the long run .

what no one knows, and i certainly cannot begin to comprehend let alone unravel the complexities, is quite what the end result with the eurozone will be

indeed, how much of the puzzle will have been solved even by 2020 is hard to predict

What do the remainers not understand about the referendum vote ?

17 million voted out knowing full well that they would have no further say on exit strategy and this would be handled by the government.

End of story get over it. Remainers beginning to sound like that moaning Scottish cow with all their bleating on about how thick the people who didn't vote their way must be.

Dil.

The price of getting out.

The Brexiters are reacting like a bunch of unruly irrational school children demanding new toys, but no idea what they will cost or who will pay for them.

Many have been deceived by the false propaganda leading up the referendum vote or are little englanders.

-====--

Also, I wonder what the bill will be and who will be expected to pay it.

Fred thinks everyone's thick who voted out ,your just like all the politicians that you despise :)

Little Englanders ,you left wing twat .

I am glad to know Dumbo has the ability to read my mind and tell me what my opinions are and what I think.

It is must feel safe and secure with a definite opinion and "belief" of the world and what should be done.

not all brexiters fred, any more than all remainers think there should be another referendum

"out" won the day whether one likes it or not
whether that would have been the case had corbyn properly and wholeheartedly put his weight - and thus by definition the labour party's - behind the "remain" campaign, will also never be known

the actuality of the situation now needs to be dealt with, though i accept it will be a long and tortuous and painful path
for sure the rabid brexiters will not get (anything like) all they want, and nor of course will the remainers

Deception was rife from both camps Fred not just the Brexiteers (not a spelling error)
2517

We know what your opinions are Fred ,you rage on here every day.

The legislation for the referendum was framed poorly. Firstly, there should have been a minimum turnout and margin to ensure the result was acceptable.

The more major point is that the referendum was created as advisory and not mandatory. That has left open the possibility of legal challenges and Parliament expecting a vote on the matter.

What bollox you talk Haystack.

Had the vote gone the "right" way, it would have been hailed as a historic achievement and there would have been no talk of another vote for any reason.


The €uro's in their arrogance buggered it up, along with Call Me and fellow travellers like yourself.

sturgeon throwing down the gauntlet to TM ......

Scotland’s first minister Nicola Sturgeon will next week publish a draft bill that could potentially pave the way for a second independence referendum in Scotland, claiming that voters north of the border should be able to reconsider their position before the UK leaves the EU.
In a speech on Thursday, Mrs Sturgeon issued a warning to Theresa May, the UK prime minister, that it is “high time” she respected the 62 per cent of Scottish voters who opposed leaving the EU, warning that the SNP MPs in Westminster will vote against the Brexit bill when it comes before the House of Commons next year.

hays - i'm sure the turnout was at least as great as for a GE, and i don't think either that or a minimum majority has ever been part of the uk's political system .....

for better or worse, it has always been "first past the post" and if you don't vote, then you just have to go along with the result

Which "matter" are the losers in Parliament expecting a vote Hays?
Max is quite right, if the vote had gone the other way, there would have been no argument about the result. When I see the scowling faces of Soubry and Thornberry, I know we did the right thing. Thornberry I can forgive because she was born stupid, while Soubry is a vicious haridan.

If the referendum had not been created as advisory we would not be having legal challenges and calls for votes in Parliament.

Started today to conclude Monday

A legal challenge to the government's right to formally begin Brexit without parliamentary approval is under way.
The High Court will consider whether ministers can invoke Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty, the trigger for formal talk, without MPs passing a new law.
The woman leading the case said ministers were trying to "bypass Parliament" by not offering a vote.
But critics said it was a "naked attempt to steal the referendum by the back door".
Ministers argue they are entitled to act under ancient powers of Royal Prerogative

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37639307

Manuel,

"Shorthand thoughts."

I think the wording of the referendum was poor.

I think the intention of many voters who voted yes or no was driven more by emotion than factual information.

Those who voted, either way, had the right to do so and both sides of the argument had their "idiots".

Also, both sides had those who were thoughtful, but I do question their true motivation and goals.

The problem for me is that while the voters to stay were aware and experienced what being in the EU meant, the majority of those voting for "out" did not have a clue about what it meant or implied. They were and still are buying a pig in a poke.


One of the major problems I see as a result is probably the UK will have less leverage in financial and political world negotiations in future.

Who will want to deal with the UK when ongoing instability and possible whimsical tearing up of future contracts is practiced etc..

With the world's affairs are in such chaos as they appear at the moment, stability is what is needed not piracy.

The outlook seems problematic.

There were/are problems in any multinational, public or private organisations, but constant reviews and negotiations, for me, are the way to resolve difficulties.

As well as give and take in attempts to get better deals for all concerned.

PS.

I have never advocated another referendum and although as a teenager admired Switzerland having a referendum of the people soon saw the difficulties of such.

But, I do think the stages and actions of government should be monitored by MPs etc and new treaties, contracts etc. should be voted on rather than introduced by a cabal.