Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

i side with RF, though my current inclination remains "out"

I think as the months go on you will get more information and also more scare mongering .

we'll certainly get a great deal of half-truths
the difficulty will be to determine what has NOT been said

Michael Gove and Jacob Rees-Mogg are well respected MP's who give credence to the 'Leavers', whereas DC has embarked on a scare and threats campaign, which could be counter productive for him. The electorate want the true facts and the problems that are likely to present themselves (as best they can ascertain) should we vote to leave.
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though the electorate may want "true facts" they won't get them from either camp
to be fair, no one can be certain what will result from the referendum, whichever way it goes

certainly "out" is taking a leap of faith into the unknown, and there is no doubt that the effects of such a vote will be volcanic in the markets, and even in the true economic world

some effects may be guessed at, but for sure there will be a number of serious consequences that will not have been envisaged ...... some may even be beneficial in the longer term, but no one knows

Yes we won't have all our laws meddled with by the European Court of Human Rights and we won't have stupid laws that hinder small and medium business ,
plus we can chose who comes in to this country ,people we need ,not millions of unskilled Roma gypsies and on top of that we may be just in time to not have to take a million or more Syrians and god knows who else among them .

you think ...... but don't bet on it!!

on human rights, i'm unsure of the effect of an "out" vote
i cannot imagine that we would scrap HRA, and i'm not even sure how far it can or indeed should be modified
as i understand it - and that could easily be incorrect - HRA aligns us with ECHR
however, how dissimilar are uk or even european codes from those of say usa?

"......stupid laws that hinder small and medium business."
However, I think that large UK based businesses would like to remain in. They employ a large workforce and pay considerable sums to HMRC. Should we ignore their wishes?
My only criticism of the whole media debate is that no one really seems interested in what is best for the nation.......just what is going to benefit themselves, or not.
I must admit that I am still undecided, but think that eventually, voters will probably prefer the devil they know.
Just seen that a chap called Jean Monnet in 1947 proposed European integration and started the process with the European Coal & Steel Community.

That's what he said Fred, I may volunteer to run him to the airport if I'm in a good mood.

ST of IC today -

I would also point out that the UK is strategically a very important importer of new cars from EU countries, something that has not been lost on German automotive manufacturers who account for a third of all new cars sold in the UK each year. True, sterling has lost 10 per cent of its value since last summer which erodes the profits to be earned by exporters to the UK. But as the fifth largest economy in the world, and with over 800,000 jobs in Germany alone dependent on the UK car sector, there is a huge dependence on maintaining exports to our important end market.

facebook and hmrc
if facebook are mitigating their uk tax liabilities by giving massive bonuses to their uk employees, then most certainly i have no problem and nor should hmrc or anyone else

Yes, but what has the German car industry and all those jobs got to do with it?

Trade between the €urozone/blighty is running at about 2/1 in their favour.


But they wont give a toss, and will erect trade barriers cos it's political, common sense don't come into it (at first)

Personally I do not think they will do anything, all talk at the moment. The whole EU outfit has not got long to survive in my view, even if we are in or out. Again I say the whole idea was mad and was doomed from the outset. Perhaps it was set up Germany to rule Europe. Can't work, can never work.

It just depends on what you want out of the EU..

If you want more immigration, then vote to stay. If you want more rules and regulations, then vote to stay. If you are happy to lose the country's sovereignity, then vote to stay. If you are happy to give a NET 10-11 billion pounds a year, then vote to stay.


IF YOU'RE totally against ALL the above... THEN VOTE TO LEAVE!!!

Its also the consequences of leaving that are very important, or in other words the UNKNOWN.

pretty much what DC says
i could argue both sides pretty effectively, or at least in my own mind

HARRYCAT its the small and medium sized companies that employ the most workers, simply because there is more of them.

The big multi nationals have the biggest influence in Brussels because they have/pay lobbiest to push their causes...Juncker was prime minister of Luxenburg when he was devising tax scams for mult-nationals.

Yes Cynic. I am sure out, But I do not think there is any politician/think tank that truthfully can tell us the consequences of this action. As said above, it may only be a few months before all countries are out. I tend to think Finland is doing very well out, but our economy is different to theirs.

Arguing in your own mind cynic , not very healthy !!!

it's called sensible considerationand deliberation ..... further it doesn't have the likes of fred blathering in there ...... if it were otherwise, i'ld be very worried indeed