Will this increase or decrease the likelihood of terrorist actions in America, Europe and the rest of the world?

If you were a member of a family murdered in this conflict, would you be seeking revenge?

Should Tzipi Livni and Ehud Olmert, be tried for war crimes if or when this conflict comes to an end?

What will the price of oil be in 4 weeks time?

Video faked by Dutch TV satire show. Quite a few complaints in Israel media.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFgtUXNzP5w&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Palestinians refuse clause in UN draft barring criminal charges against Israel
Washington had sought to soften wording of draft resolution, but Palestinians submitted final proposal earlier Tuesday and have refused to discuss changes.

American-Israeli efforts to soften the wording of the proposed United Nations General Assembly resolution regarding the recognition of a Palestinian state has failed, an Israeli official said on Tuesday.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/palestinians-refuse-clause-in-un-draft-barring-criminal-charges-against-israel.premium-1.480931

This story shows what a panic Israel and the US are in. Abbas won't retract the bid and won't alter the wording.

THIS IS NO SIDESHOW

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/in-wake-of-gaza-flare-up-u-k-could-support-palestinian-bid-at-un-1.480841

Abbas has submitted the draft resolution earlier than expected and the vote will take place Thursday. The US is desperately trying to find some procedural measure to block the vote. The EU is expected to vote 11 for, 5 against and 11 abstaining. This another blow to the US and Israel. They were hoping for far fewer in favour and less abstains. In fact they may get more in favour on the day.

France has today decided to vote in favour of Palestine. Australia were going to vote against but Julia Gillard's party strongly voted against her yesterday and she will now have to abstain. India, Brazil and South Africa in favour now. The votes against are falling by the hour. One of the benefits of the vote is the increased isolation of Israel.

what will be the true impact on israel if the UN vote goes in favour of the palestinians (very likely at least in some format)? ..... in honesty, probably very little, just as all the sanctions heaped upon saddam hussain and iraq and ditto iran made not the slightest difference

withdrawal of aid is the only thing that will jolt israel, but history has shown that usa is unwilling to take that course ...... it isn't that simple, needless to say, as significantly and permanently weakening israel would just breed even greater unrest in the region

it goes almost without saying that the palestinians (aka hamas) and israel should long ago have entered meaningful dialogue to achieve peaceful coexistence ...... that the one is as intransigent as the other, is plain for all to see

Palestine has had peace talks and then Israel starts building settlements. It is clear that Israel does not want peace but more and more land.

At least 132 countries already recognize Palestine as a state. The figure on Thursday could well be more. That adds up to about 80% pf the population of the world.

take your blinkers off ...... it is abundantly clear that neither are remotely willing to give ground, both literally and metaphorically ...... further, one of the main planks of hamas's "constitution" is the destruction of israel, as has often been openly stated

by the way, how can palestine be recognised a state, when it has none? ...... that many are in strong favour of the palestinians (not the same as hamas!) having their own (semi)autonomous homeland is a different matter altogether

The difference after Thursday is that Palestine can then join the International Criminal Court and the International Court of Justice. War crimes and crimes against humanity carry penalties as opposed to broken resolutions of the UN. There is an obligation of arrest for member countries. That would mean 132 or more countries that members of Israel's government could not visit even after leaving their posts. It is clearly an important factor for Israel which can be seen by the amount of effort being put into stopping the bid and rewording of it.

so let's get this straight ...... you're actually only interested in certain israelis being charged through ICC rather than the promotion of peace in the region? ..... is that correct, because it's certainly the line you have been spouting for the last few days?

Hamas has said yesterday that they now support the bid and recognise Israel within 1967 borders. The 1967 borders also include Gaza. Abbas is also intending to bring Fatah and Hamas together after the vote. This is also something that Israel and the US are opposed to.

that does not answer the question above, but as so often, you go off at a tangent rather than answer a direct question

I am interested in the threat of action via the ICC as a tool to pressure Israel to behave better short or long term. It may have the effect of stopping settlement as this is illegal. It may cause Israel to talk in better faith. In the absence of these effects then I would like to see Israeli individuals punished for their actions.

There seems to be little that can be done to stop Israel's behaviour as the US is unlikely ever to pressure Israel. At least this avenue isolates Israel further and may lead to more boycots etc.

.

so you think pursuing an individual or two through ICC will increase the chances of peace? ..... strange logic ......

and your following sentence then implies that you think even trying to get the sides together is a waste of time ...... in conclusion, your interest in the UN vote is purely to increase the chances of revenge of some kind, and thus an increase in further violence in its wake.

is that a fair summation of your stance?

Greg - I'll grant that you have the physical stature of the haystack, but in the last few posts you seem to have demonstrated the cognitive ability of the needle.

Gausie
I wouldn't expect you to agree with me and you seem closer to the stature of a haystack.

Cynic
Would you normally characterise punishment for war crimes or crimes against humanity as revenge? I suspect not. I view many of Israel's actions over recent years as crimes. If the ICC or the ICOJ find Israel or leaders guilty then they deserve punishment. Gadaffi and others would have been prime candidates for ICC and Israel and its leaders are no different as regards there status or the severity of their crimes.

Hays,

Agree with your last posting.

The same would be appropriate for similar crimes committed by inhabitants of any country, including USA, UK, Israel. France, Germany, Russia etc..

The problem is getting the individuals into a suitable court of law.

In this type of case it can be tried 'in absentia'. Plenty of people have been tried and found guilty after refusing to attend the court.