Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

I know you can't rely on polls but it is reckoned 55% are in favour of Brexit (up 3%), and the only party carrying out their wishes is the Tory Party.

As for TM changing her mind have you (Fred) not heard of catching the opposition (pitiful as it is) wrong-footed.

George,

I have enjoyed playing games the majority of my life, but I am able to differentiate between games and real life.

At the moment I feel too many in today's politics are playing being smart arses out to advantage themselves. It is being played as a game.

Also, there is too much concentration on short-term tactics without long-term strategies.

Also, although the individual is important so is the whole of society.

Business succeeds due to its leadership, but won't succeed without its employees.

"the strength of the pack is the wolf, and the strength of the wolf is the pack."


At the moment the public is being driven or duped by short-term greed, media, mouth bites, PR agencies and those who owned those agencies.

(Those who see themselves as the elite and intolerant of the opinions of others.)


Much is based on scapegoating for one's own inadequacies and shows by the intolerance of opinions of others.

=-=-=-

But I am biased.

-====

Biased Fred, you?

Shock horror!!!!I found myself agreeing with fred(6799), right up until the comma after George....LOL!

No seriously, freds second and third sentences and the third from the end
ring a bell..Hope that's clear?..

Fred

At the moment I feel too many in today's politics are playing being smart arses out to advantage themselves. It is being played as a game.

Reply--At the moment? This has been the case for decades

Also, there is too much concentration on short-term tactics without long-term strategies.

Reply-- see above


Also, although the individual is important so is the whole of society.

Reply --Agree

Business succeeds due to its leadership, but won't succeed without its employees.

Reply --Agree


At the moment the public is being driven or duped by short-term greed, media, mouth bites, PR agencies and those who owned those agencies.

Reply-- This has been the case for 2 decades, so called Spin Doctors really came to the fore during the Blair/Brown era. That's not to say you are wrong but you make it sound as if it's started recently, which is not the case.

Freda's probably fainted , with new found popularity already .

Fred won't take kindly to being Mr Popular, he thrives on being disliked.

.

George,

There have always been spin-doctors, con-artists and charlatans in politics and society in general, however, I think due to the changes in the various methods of communication, the practice of their arts has proliferated and become more skillful and implemented indiscriminately.

Who is financing the propaganda and where is the money hidden?

Also, what are those who are doing the financing after?

What is Nigel’s reward?

The present period reminds me of the Goebbels and the effects on his manipulation of German People in the want of German Nationalism and a Pure race.

Seems like the intent of certain little Englanders.

Make Germany great again.

Sorry, Britain great again.

Are the goals the same?

Remember what happened.

-=-==-=

As far as being popular is concerned, my father told me it is what I thought of myself that counted and to take into consideration what the effect of my words and actions on others.

Also, told me that my signature and what I signed was representative of myself.

-==-=-==-=

Reminds me of:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BL58-Sh94ms

You got a sense of humour by any chance Freda , ( prefer Paddy Mcginty's goat actually . )

Was the goat a close family member?

Fred always goes back to Nazis Germany, sometimes if it is immigration he goes back to the Norman conquest or before the English channel to prove that we belong to Europe.

I object to Corbyn's past in relation to the IRA for starters Fred.

... and his loony sidekicks , bloody disgrace the pair of them.

And it's a bit hard to object to any of his current policies except open borders because he hasn't got any that I'm aware of off the top of my head.

my cynical self has certainly observed over recent months how the uk economy is being predicted or even actually to be performing far better than expected

is this actually true?
who knows?

EXCLUSIVE: Tory manifesto will guarantee end of free movement, UK to leave single market and no more meddling by Euro judges as May issues her cast-iron Brexit pledges

Theresa May will include specific pledges to overcome opposition in her party

Her manifesto will commit the Tories to ending European Union free movement

Tory remainers will have to sign it and it will be harder for peers to block Brexit


By Jason Groves, Political Editor For The Daily Mail

20 April 2017


Theresa May will place a triple lock on Brexit in the Tory manifesto to stop obstruction by diehard Remainers.

Tory sources say she is set to include specific pledges to overcome opposition within her party and in the Lords.

The manifesto is expected to commit the Conservatives to ending EU free movement and pulling out of both the single market and European Court of Justice.

Senior Tories see the three measures as essential in delivering last year's referendum result.




More:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4426736/Tory-manifesto-guarantee-end-free-movement.html

I'm voting twice for that once for me and once for the goat , ( not kidding ) stick that Freda .

Dil,

I remember well the Paisley and Bernadette Devlin and Civil Rights marches during late 60s and 70s in Ireland, following increasing unrest through from the 50s.

(One of the driving forces of the discontent was the iniquitous treatment of the Catholic elements of the NI population.)

Interesting summary http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/events/northern_ireland/history/299113.stm.

Throughout that period there were attempts by both “sides” to negotiate and communications existed by all flavours of government. Any sensible government would have been trying to negotiate “peaceful” and “fair” resolution of the problems

Although Corbyn was involved in backroom “talks” I do not see reference to condoning or advocating violence, but certainly he recognised the appalling lack of justice and prepared to publicly admit to it.

That did not wash well with the Unionist elements of NI or the UK government and was ramped ump by the right wing media.

I remember the public condemnation of Major and Blair for “negotiations” behind closed doors prior to and during “Peace” negotiations.
“Wars generally ends with talking together of representatives of the warring parties.”

The pain goes on for years.
-==-=-=

If you have time, have a read of A Star Called Henry by Roddy Doyle relating to the Irish uprising in the early 1900s.

It depicts the misery of that period.
-=-=-=-=-=-==-==-

PS

I can't see Mother Theresa introducing closed borders, but can see the privatisation of the NHS and destruction of the Welfare system and inability of the "poorer" members of society being able to afford university education etc..

Max,

I hope you are booking your place in the "customs" queue for when you next go on holiday to France.

(I wouldn't let you back in.)

8-)

Free movement and Closed borders isn't the same thing but suits your repetitious slagging of May whose doing a good job in my opinion .