This board has been a little to quiet for while.

Is it time that Bush and Blair who is a close friend and confidant of Bush were tried for War Crimes?

Do you think the use by the American Administrations of renditions are War Crimes and committed with full knowledge of American and British leaders ie. Blair and Bush and they are ultimately responsible?

Also in the aftermath of the illegal invasion of Iraq are should their action seen to be as the provocation for the rising toll of British, American and Iraqi deaths.

As a result of the military intervention in Iraq do you think you are safer in Britain to-day?

Do you think one should expect government leaders and ministers who have been responsible for massive foreseeable casualties should visit the hospitals to meet the casualties they have produced directly or indirectly by their actions?

Responsibility for policy and administration of such a state "should rest primarily with those who believe in the Islamic ideology." Non-Muslims, therefore, cannot be asked to undertake or be entrusted with the responsibility of policymaking.

The law in Islamic countries.

the only saving gace of an islamic state would be , you'd be one of the first up against the wall.
vive la revolucion.
LOL

Yet another voice in America proclaiming the idiocy of the war. This time a book by the the highly respected Washington Post defence correspondent Thomas E Ricks -FIASCO: The American Military Adventure in Iraq. Essentially argues that every decision taken by the inner core of neocons (Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Cheney) played into the hands of the enemies, making the situation worse rather than better.

Several charges made with scrupulous fairness:-

The US encouraged the Kurds to rebel but did nothing to stop the atrocities on them by Saddam

Clinton had already made great strides; the multiple air and cruise strikes came close to destroying the regime and also put an effective end to the Iraqi WMD programme

Links between the Iraqi regime and Al-Qaeda were grossly exaggerated, if not invented entirely.

Highly dubious and contradictory intelligence coming out through Ahmed Chalabis organisation was cherry-picked shamelessly to support their claims that Saddam was still developing WMD and even working towards nuclear weapons.

All the warnings, including those of General Norman Schwarzkopf, were dismissed. America was going to war with PowerPoint presentations. Conventional military planning was despised.

Basic strategy was what might be called a reverse domino theory. The Vietnam war had been fought to prevent the rest of southeast Asia going communist. In 2002, the neocon rollback idea was that a democratic Iraq would start its own domino effect and turn the Middle East round. The simplistic wishfulness even extended to Wolfowitz claiming that Iraq would be able to pay for its own reconstruction and to police itself.

In February 2003, General Colin Powell was forced into prostituting his own good reputation with a speech to the UN based on a total misrepresentation of the intelligence available.

The neocon strategy has achieved the opposite of what it set out to do. It has made the entire region far more volatile, has opened up a whole new front for Al-Qaeda and has brought it thousands of new recruits. Operation Iraqi Freedom has proved the most disastrous venture in modern times

It is a mesmerizing but grotesque catalogue of blinkered and counter-productive policies and actions where people with saner and more realistic views were ignored or sidelined by the arrogant and inept. He writes extremely well,it is a gripping read and disturbingly brings to mind Frank Zappa's observation that "stupidity is more pervasive than hydrogen". It should serve as a reminder to us all to consistently challenge and question the statements and policies of our "leaders" (many of whom are clearly criminally negligent and many of whom are worse). The price being paid for this catastrophe by American, British and Iraqui lives is horrific. Read it and weep.

I have a habit of challenging the statements of our journalists.
They have a bigger axe to grind than anyone else in the world. it is called the convictions of the owner / editor. they publish his views and selective facts to endorse them.
Do we forget already the ludicrous photographs and stories published in support of a trumped up story of torture by our soldiers? FAKED.
I think it reasonable to derive from that that journalists are not some kind of truth seeking white knight here to save us from the evil tyranny of our elected representatives. they are human and possess the same failings as all of us.
When it comes to the press, yes i do read it and weep.
Alan

The west aka Bush/Blair doing a first class job fighting islamic ignorance, these people have to learn when in rome do as the romans do........Bring them upto our level not down to theirs........Hope this helps regards as always... barwoni...

For WEST read dumb and DUMBERER.
Off to war we go, on a crusade to free the nation of iraq of its oil, sorry dictator.

Do as we say, not do as we do.
The best recruitment tool for AL QEADA, has been the war in iraq

await body count update c/o BAWONI.
In the eyes of the wider world, all deaths regardless of by whom are as a direct result of the war and our abject inability to formulate any stratergy to rebuild that works.
What IRAQ needs is another dictator.
LOL or else I'd cry.

?

Jesus.. thats just depressing.

Those that blame the west for a bunch of madmen wandering into a market and blowing themselves up - what exactly is it that the terrorists want???
I am so confused. Killing ones countrymen does not seem a fantastic way of getting rid of an occupying power.
I really cannot understand why a muslim would think he was furthering the cause of Islam, by slaughtering other muslims!! If they simply stopped and allowed the elections (overseen by an independant international body), the allies would leave and the country would be run on whatever mandate the new government stood on, by a muslim parliament.
Could it be that the real aim of the terrorists is civil war, for their own greedy ends? Or perhaps they consider a muslim parliament too liberal for their tastes, even though it would be the wish of the people they profess to represent? after all the British Muslim parliament has been denounced by the radical group as too liberal.
I can hear the keyboards now, rattling away with protests that the parliament would be a puppet of the allies. So easy to prove what hasn't happened yet, or never did happen. The truth is the parliament would be as close to the allies as it wanted to be. the international electoral commission has devised the rules and make up of such an election, and the requirements for allied withdrawl. It is out of the hands of the allies to have any favoured status or not, to have any strings on the government or not, and certainly to have any input in the elections.
So there we have it. if you really do want a Muslim state free of the allies, simply stop murdering each other and blaming everyone except yourselves. You will then have it. unless your campaign is for other reasons.
Alan

I'm surprised that people -guided by the media- are trying to connect the dire situation in Iraq with Blair. The tories would have done exactly the same. The right wing media in this country are just trying to find something to beat labour with. If Cameron was PM they would be in favour of the Iraq war. They think if they can get rid of Blair, then Brown will not become PM because he's Scottish and so the tories will win. But they're being myopic. If Brown doesn't become PM because middle England will not accept a Scottish PM then Scotland will rightly see it as a snub, implying that Scots are not as British as English people and Scotland could vote for independence. The tories should be careful what they wish for. Britain would go bankrupt without Scottish oil, gas, and electricity. Look at the price of oil at the moment. 90% of it all is Scottish, the rest of the UK would be in severe trouble and the politicians knowit .I'm surprised the media and some tories think England is subsidising Scotland. This is nonsense. England would have gone bankrupt thirty years ago if it wasn't for the oil. A bit of gratitude would be nice please!!!

I think the point trying to be made is that it's a self fulfilling prophecy..
in that west (christianity) invades east(islam), east(poor, in need of leadership/development/education/western ideals) does what west(heathen, lost, wayward,greedy,anti-god) expects and commits attorocities i.e. suicide bombings, therefore west is right and carries on what it's doing thereby leading to mad mullah's having ammunition to brainwash ill educated and seriously pissed off iraq'is into killing, and on we go.
As for iraqi's killing each other,well theres SHI'ITES and theres SUNNI's. A bit like catholics and protestants.Welcome to the new Northern Ireland.
LOL

Except the prophecy idea forgets that 9/11 was prior to the Iraq war, and was certainly down to Muslims.
It also helps provide ammunition for those who think the media are lying out of their teeth half the time. A big question from 9/11 was about the third tower that collapsed. This was trumpeted in the media as proof positive that it was some kind of US conspiracy to promote a war on Islam. The third tower was evacuated, and collapsed because emergency services had neither the manpower or the ability to get to it and put out the fires started by burning debris from the twins. It collapsed because it burned itself to the ground. it did not collapse because the CIA blew it up, as some from the media would have us believe.

what did iraq have to do with 9/11 or war on terrorism/al qaeda prior to invasion?
9/11 was down to terrorists who were muslims. Does'nt make every muslim a terrorist or islam a religion of terror.Unless of course you believe the popular press.
lol

Bush, Blair portray themselves as Christian, the Israeli government portray themselves as members of the Jewish Faith. They are responsible for recent and ongoing atrocities. In my opinion and the opinion of many others, they have knowingly committed murder, atrocious war crimes. They should be tried by an international court.

I feel that they would be found guilty and a fitting punishment would be to work as orderlies on the hospitals caring for the maimed they have been responsible for producing.

I think Israel's use of cluster bombs in in Lebanon was equivalent to the atrocities committed by the Nazis in WW2. The result will be that there will be little sympathy for terrorist actions if they occur in Israel.

It is not the religion which are at fault but the abuse of it by corrupt leadership.

We in Britain and America have elected corrupt government and we as the electors bear the responsibility.

After the killing, people will have to sit and talk to one another and mourn the loss of their own dead.

Jeez eat more fish my son, you have a severe shortage of brain cells......

Jihad du Jour (News of the Day)


Muslims in Thailand Rack Up 1,700 Dead in 2 Years...
Terror Attack in Jordan by Man Yelling, 'Allah Akbar!'...
Pakistani Man Poisons Wife, Daughters...
CAIR Has $50 Million Makeover...
Hezbollah Child Killer May Walk...
U.S. Responds to Disingenuous 9/11 Conspiracy Theorists...
Martyrs Wanted (Must be Between 10 and 15-Years-Old)...
Aussie Muslims Threaten Riots...

Islamic Terror's War on You
Five Filipino Troops Killed by Islamic Militants Sheltering Bali Bombers...
al-Qaeda in Iraq's No. 2 Man Captured...
Amnesty Deal for Algerian Fundamentalists Upsetting Survivors, Families...
Holy Jihad Brigade Vows to Keep Capturing Non-Muslims and Force Them to Convert...
al-Qaeda Believed to be Planning New Bombings at Egyptian Resorts...
UK: New Batch of Muslims, New Terror Plot, New Arrests (at Religious School)...
Morocco Thwarts Terror Plot, but Islamists Gaining Strength...

The Real 2006
'Iraq Body Count'

Iraqi civilians killed this year by Islamic Terrorists
8,256

Iraqi civilians killed collaterally by Americans
59*

In three years of fighting some 200,000 people have been killed, according to the UN, and more than two million driven from their homes. Mainly blacks and non muslims. Darfur.... What do you think tweenie/freddie boy should we send tthe troops in or let them carry on with the genocide?

Fred, we covered that one. there is no chance that there will be a trial, because apart from a few strange journalists, the vast majority of the world favoured the action. Learn to live with being in a very small minority.
Tweenie,
9/11 started the international war on terrorism. It did not exist on 9/10, and did on 9/12. As for Iraq, they were sponsoring terrorism, both within their own borders and internationally. Intelligence reports suggested that iraq were trying to develop WMD and their leader would not allow full and free inspections, which he had agreed to under a treaty bearing his signature. The world voted to invade and that is what happened. It is all very simple and clear fact that has been muddied by a media with their own personal agenda who manipulate the thoughts and fears of people like Fred and yourself, just as much as the mad mullahs manipulate the muslims.
Don't bother with a reply of indignation. I have had months on this thread of Fred telling me that journalists are holy truth seekers and politicians are scheming and lying and that if I only opened my eyes...............The truth is that journalists are very probably the most deceitful bunch the world has ever seen and if only you would all open your eyes. It works either way you want it to. The difference is one of who you will believe. me I'll go with the signed mandate of the UN and the word of the vast majority of world leaders who were privy to information we may be lucky enough to see in 30 years time. If you all want to choose to listen to a few burned out hacks, who stoop to faking photographs and making up stories to ell a few more of their rags, then fine.

(1) War crime trials are a modern form of triumph parades purposed for the self congratulations, justifications and propaganda of the strong over the weak.

(2) Stories and reports on when and whether Blair should step down demonstrated again that politicians (PM, MPs, etc) put the interest of the party above the interests of the country, and puts the interests of the party leader above the interests of the party.

(3) It is funny how soldiers had to obey orders from whose to whom they had not swear allegiance.

(4) There is no doubt Blair had been quietly groomed for decades. I wonder who is now being groomed and how ???

Barwoni and H6, I wonder how much projection is contained in your postings.

Just wondering.

When we read the varoud journals and watch the television, it seems that we believe what suits our positions or purposes.