Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

Summer reading for the Brexiters.

Jeremy Corbyn has admitted he was "unaware" of the size of the student loans debt when he said he would "deal with it" during the general election campaign. Apparently a pledge is not a promise. Definition of pledge in this context "a solemn promise or agreement to do or refrain from doing something". Maybe it was the refrain bit he really meant.
So we have a leader of the Labour party whose word is not worth the paper it is written on and was clearly intent on bribing "students" - read the young that can't find a proper job. A shadow home secretary that can't count and has clear mental problems. A shadow education secretary that left school as a pregnant teenager with no qualifications. A shadow chancellor that was too dumb even for Red Ken at the GLC. Very promising government in waiting. Who wants to write a book on them for reading on the beach?

Eat your heart out Fred :-)


Boost for Britain as BMW picks Oxford over Germany and Netherlands to build new electric Mini





BMW's Mini E electric car will be built in the UK Credit: EPA



By Alan Tovey, Industry Editor
25 July 2017 • 2:52pm




Britain’s car making industry has received a major vote of confidence after BMW announced it will build an all-electric version of the Mini in the UK.

The German car giant said the full-electric Mini E will roll off the production lines at its Oxford plant - which is the historic home of the iconic car - from 2019.

There had been speculation that the work could go to BMW’s factory in the Netherlands which currently produces a smaller amount of the fleet or even an entirely new plant in Germany.

However the news guarantees the future of the 4,500 staff at plant, who currently build the bulk of the 360,000 Minis built each year.



Full story here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/07/25/boost-britain-bmw-picks-oxford-germany-netherlands-build-new/

Trade deficit widened by £2bn in 3 months, now stands at £11.86bn

Manufacturing output down by 0.2%, as opposed to the forecast of a 0.5% rise. This was mainly due to the 4.4% fall in car production, the big brexiteer favourite.

Construction sector down 1.2%, as opposed to forecast of a 0.7% rise.

All painting a rather bleak picture for the UK economy. Well done Brexit.

Hardly bleak Stan. As the report adds:
Trade statistics for any one month can be erratic. For that reason, we recommend comparing the latest 3 months against the preceding 3 months and the same 3 months of the previous year.
When comparing with the same 3 months last year, exports of total trade (goods and services) increased marginally more over the period at 11.9% compared with imports at 11.0%. The value of goods exported to non-EU countries continue to be higher than those exported to EU countries; however the rate of growth has increased at a slightly faster rate to EU countries (15.9%) than non-EU countries (15.0%) over the period.

We haven't left the EU yet and the weaker £ is bound to affect the cost of imports. That will correct with time. The imbalance was due to a rise in imports (rather than a decrease in exports of goods) in particular transport equipment (cars, aircraft and ships), oil and electrical machinery from non-EU countries.

That's beside the point IT, together with all the other bad news and uncertainty that's around these days it just adds to the "race to the bottom" for the majority of people in the UK.. and that's without going into the almost daily devisions in your Tory Government.

Oh dear Stan. Bad news. Flash news to my iphone - UK economy grew by 0.3% in three months to June adding to expectations that interest rates will stay at record low.
The remoaners would be so happy if we went into recession.

IT.

With the effects of devaluation of sterling, one would hope and expect an improvement in exports.

But the value of "the pound in your pocket" for the majority of the people in the UK has gone down, ie, they are poorer.

Also, from the past "devaluation" can be a short term stimulus but costs of "necessary" inputs mute the effects, as you know.

(Useful for a kick start when batteries are low.)

I doubt that many wish "Brexit" if it really occurs in any meaning full way to be an economic failure but my guess is that it will a cobbled together hotchpotch of agreements without the UK sitting at any economic and political management table in the EU.

The results will be an attempt to placate the "voters" and change in practice little.

But at a colossal expense and damaging to "international" relationships.

The UK will have to be grateful for scraps from the table without meeting the cooks.


Many or even the majority of the heroic Brexiters were voting "against" fictitious and relatively small problems with the EU and in favour of their racist tendencies when it comes to immigration.

When it comes to "rule and govern ourselves", as a small independent nation we will be kowtowing to all and sundry and still be obeying international law.

If rules, regulations and laws are wrong, argue for change, but respect when in a minority that the majority may be right or need to be persuaded.

It is no use storming off like recalcitrant teenagers like the UK present negotiators "threaten" to do.

-=--=-=

(Trump and his followers must be rubbing their hands with glee.

I think the thing which Trump and cronies want is international and economic chaos in the hope they can breed advantageously on the dung heap they are creating.

And Liam Fox and May want a closer relationship with this gang, hoping to bolster their own political positions.)

Blame the EU then, Fred....

To be made to have to accept unlimitless immigration isn't a right thing to enforce on a country.

Functioning in an undemocratic way, as the EU seems to do, isn't a right way of doing things either.

Neither are some of the silly laws about 'human rights' in the EU which seem to offer criminals more protection than they do the victims of crime.

Exec,

Life for the majority in the EU and UK compared with 50 years ago has advanced in social and medical and legal aspects. Also, personal well-being and actual wealth have been improved beyond expectancies.

A large amount of these "improvements" have been down to EU cooperation and "stability" for over 40years.

Of course, there have been mistakes, and disagreements, but tearing up the contracts increasing the disgruntlement with close nations or countries and rejoicing in the destruction of the EU as an entity does not seem to me to be an adult approach to problems.

If trading more easily with rest of the world is beneficial for the UK, it is probably similar for the 27 other EU countries.

Argue the case.

But also, look at the protection from being in EU.

-=-=-=-=-=

World Pirates are no longer appreciated.

-=-=-=

If you dont't like the EU name change it to a Cooperation of States.

Cooperation of States .... whose rules are dictated by germany in brussels
when those whose pensions emanate from brussels are not allowed to be publicly vocal against the system, then something is badly wrong

it is sad but true that no meaningful changes to existing policy have ever come about from inside eu
that is not to deny that much eu legislation is good

however, it was not until uk voted out and other member states got very vociferous against this freedom of movement "holy grail" that any change was even contemplated

the CAP and fisheries policies are also fundamentally flawed, but brussels has no interest in changing them .... no wonder fish stocks are becoming perilously low

many of rulings from ECJ and ECHR are also totally nuts - eg the block to deport instantly the likes of abu hamza

Well this is one rule by Germany that has been kicked into touch. Won't stop it trying to force other EU countries to take migrants that it encouraged however. Or Italy giving them european travel documents.

In a ruling which could have far-reaching consequences for how the European Union deals with migrants in future, the European Court of Justice on Wednesday upheld the right of member states to deport asylum-seekers to the first EU country they enter.
The ruling amounted to an effective rejection of Angela Merkel’s controversial “open-door” refugee policy, which saw more than one million asylum-seekers flood into Germany.
The court ruled that the EU’s Dublin regulations, under which refugees must seek asylum in the first member state they enter, still apply despite the unprecedented influx of 2015.

Leave now. I just dont understand. Too many with vested interests shovelling what they can out before natives get restless again.

Cynic,

Do you think rules and regulation regarding fishings and their implementations will be improved by the exit from the EU?

I think the public should be able to assess the financial "rewards" of public "officials" and "public" corporation.
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It,

I suggest recognising and understanding what group responsibility to fellow human beings means and would be pertinent in the migration problem.

Also, recognising and accepting the precursors of the said "problem".

I.E paying for the crimes.

If that had been done earlier many of the present problems may have been avoided.

Dear God in heaven, what are you drinking Fred? (smoking?)

First of all Max its very unlikely that there is a god.. let alone a heaven.

Secondly Fred's tiple is beside the point and as for Fred smoking?..don't be ridiculous -):

Deportation to first country of EU entry is an interesting concept in the Schengen Area.

Not if your Greek or Italian it isn't.

So when are the French going to start deporting those still hanging around the Channel ports ?

It's obviously not a UK problem.

The whole thing with unmanned borders, Dilbert, is that the deportees can walk straight from Greece or Italy through any other Schengen country and back up to Calais.

Good job they can't walk on water then isn't it.

I thought Austria had closed its border and someone else , Hungary? to these migrants ?

And surely the EU court ruling makes it ok to do so.

If I were Italy or Greece I'd threaten to give all migrants an EU passport within a week of landing and a free train ticket to whatever country they wanted to go to.