This board has been a little to quiet for while.

Is it time that Bush and Blair who is a close friend and confidant of Bush were tried for War Crimes?

Do you think the use by the American Administrations of renditions are War Crimes and committed with full knowledge of American and British leaders ie. Blair and Bush and they are ultimately responsible?

Also in the aftermath of the illegal invasion of Iraq are should their action seen to be as the provocation for the rising toll of British, American and Iraqi deaths.

As a result of the military intervention in Iraq do you think you are safer in Britain to-day?

Do you think one should expect government leaders and ministers who have been responsible for massive foreseeable casualties should visit the hospitals to meet the casualties they have produced directly or indirectly by their actions?

Americans looking on or is it another place for rendition.

in answer to the title of the board.. the whole country voted for blair, therefore the whole country should be held to account, bit late complaining about it, had your chance to vote him out in the elections..

I tried to but not many followed my voting pattern.

Thetwittalan,

"the things he does not possess, such as wit, wisdom and an IQ in positive figures."

Thats rich coming from someone who has watched his investment in SEO drop from 30p to under 4p, without cutting is loses, thats a very unwise thing to do, he must have a IQ to match his shoe size .

Goldsmith said it was not legal and the Army top brass didn't think it was.

Thetwittalanaged6,

Does not or more likely cannot give a answer.

I rest my case.
Judge for yourselves.

Who's Really
Killing Iraqis?

The Real 2006
'Iraq Body Count'

Iraqi civilians killed this year by Islamic Terrorists
8,536

Iraqi civilians killed collaterally by Americans
60*

Why do Muslims pretend not to understand the ultimate goal of Islamic terrorists, despite the fact that the killers themselves are both vocal and specific about their motives? Why do Muslims not acknowledge the reality of over 1,000 deadly attacks each year in the name of their faith? What keeps so many from maturing to the point where they can recognize what is so plainly obvious to the rest of us?

We thought about these questions while trying to sit through al-Qaeda's latest "Invitation to Islam" video (which was released to the tune of dead silence from the "moderate" Muslim community). We have to be honest. This isn't exactly "must see TV." The morbid self-indulgence that is so ingrained in Islam comes on strong in the video and wears thin just as quickly.

Even just a few minutes worth of viewing removes all doubt that these terrorists are deeply committed to the Islamic faith. And not only is this a religion that is just as compatible with the mass slaughter of unbelievers today as it was in Muhammad's time, but it is rigidly egocentric. An example would be the way that these Muslim sociopaths speak self-righteously of Western crimes, including the European slave trade.

Yes, the West did enslave Africans over a 350 year period, but Islam has been doing this for the last 1400 - and with such viciousness that few slaves survived to reproduce in captivity. Whereas Christianity's prime role in the slave trade was to temper and eventually eradicate it, there was no corresponding abolitionary movement in the Islamic world. Abolition had to be "imposed" on Arab nations (as today's Left might put it) by the Europeans. Given this plain truth, and the fact that Muhammad was himself a slave-owner and trader, it is certainly a bizarre point on which to make a claim of moral superiority.

But this is how the Muslim world thinks. Islam is the one, true religion, so the abundance of mitigating facts and logic are automatically dismissed before they can be digested. Consider that very few Muslims alive today are aware of the historical atrocities committed in the name of Allah, from the mass slaughter of millions of Hindus over the centuries, to the Turkish genocide of Armenians. Only a tiny minority would even care

Without acknowledgement and responsibility, there is no maturity. What is left instead is the moral shallowness and knee-jerk double standards that are so ubiquitous throughout the Muslim world.

http://www.rense.com/

loads of coverage of 911 was an inside job on many stations now...looks like the rats are jumping ship and climbing on board the 911 truth movement http://www.nineeleven.co.uk

Just checked that site out
It includes links to people claiming they have "proof" of an inside job. To see the proof you have to buy DVD's etc. that they have made.
One site does include voice clips of eyewitnesses claiming they heard explosions before the collapses, and offers this as evidence of demolition. If an aeroplane crashed into any building, I would assume there would be explosions, both at the time, due to aviation fuel, and afterwards due to the fire in close proximity to Gas, air con and god knows what.
Not exactly independant as it claims. Remember that the US is full of people who have made a mint from claiming all kinds of things for JFK and Elvis.
Alan

hewitt..andrew johnson and Zak locke will give you a dvd for free or why not see it for free on google video

Fire in the hole!!! Where is the squelch button? lunatic alert maestro about!!


The truth here.....

http://usinfo.state.gov/xarchives/display.html?p=pubs-english&y=2006&m=August&x=20060828133846esnamfuaK0.2676355

oh dear...i'm getting a persecution complex now and i'm not jewish

Bamoani- I think your 'logic (LOL) is flawed............
Or do you honestly hold the belief that all muslims are guilty of a crime by the sheer fact that they are muslim?
If not, then what exactly is the point you are desperately striving to make?
I don't expect germans to have to apologise for Nazism?
I don't expect americans to apologise for the slave trade/kkk/atom bomb/etc
I don't expect myself to apologise for the actions of the British EMPIRE...
So why would I expect a muslim to have to apologise or justify their outrage constantly re the actions of terrorists who pathetically link thier actions to a particular religion (i.e. islam).
Or are you saying that all muslims are terrorists and that its only a matter of time before the several billion of them decide to blow themselves up and take us with them?

You are a sick puppy.
LOL :-)

slightly off topic.I'm surprised that people think Labour are atrocious re the public services. The tories weren't exactly great they pioneered all this management consultant bullshit. And did the right-wing press ever attack them, no ofcourse not. A lot of people here are letting their views be dictated by the media. The tories were just as keen to align themselves to America and the war on terrorism as Labour.

To me, a government is like a business board. They have a responsibility to get the best deal they can for the country, their representatives or employees. in this regard PPI is a terrible deal I think, since future generations will be paying the loans.But the 20billion for 3g licenses by Brown was a stroke of genius I think. I personally think that the government should increase the corporate tax on north sea oil by a large amount. norway's is 40% higher than ours even with the recent small increase which has made no difference whatsoever. People need oil. We've got it. Companies are piling up to enter the north sea because they're making huge profits. Lets take advantage of this and get the best deal possible. The government has an obligation to do this for Britain.

Tuesday, September 12, 2006

UK - MCB: authentic voice of moderate Islam?
RICHARD LITTLEJOHN doesn't think so and he lets them have it with both barrels.

It's great to see some in the media finally standing up to Muslims.

Read the whole thing.





With exemplary tact and exquisite timing, the leader of Britains Muslims chose the eve of the fifth anniversary of 9/11 to warn that we are facing the threat of two million home-grown Islamic terrorists.

The preposterous, self-aggrandising secretary-general of the Muslim Council of Britain (MCB), Muhammad Abdul Bari, predicted an angry backlash against what he perceives as widespread Islamophobia in this country.

To be honest, I did wonder whether it was worth even dignifying this garbage with a reaction, especially when it comes from a man who appears to wear a ginger wig with a grey beard. But someones got to do it.

Bari and his sidekicks are regularly wheeled out as the authentic voice of moderate Islam.

Their victimhood shtick is treated as gospel by broadcasters and they are taken seriously by government ministers and senior police officers.

They never miss an opportunity to advance their own agenda. It always the same old song. They utterly condemn terrorism, you understand, but unless we give them exactly what they want, they cant be held responsible for the actions of the more excitable members of their community.

Criticise them and you are damned as an Islamophobe. When I described the MCB as a self-appointed bunch of chancers a few weeks ago, Baris ridiculous Mr Bean-lookalike press officer Inayat Bunglawala wrote accusing me of being a bigot.

Yet nothing in that column could remotely be construed as an attack on the Muslim religion, any more than taking the mickey out of trendy vicars is an assault on Christianity.

Far from being a bigot, I judge the MCB on exactly the same terms as any other bunch of spivs and opportunists. They are the ones hiding behind religion for political ends. I certainly dont need any lessons in bigotry from someone like Bari, who invites as an honoured guest to his East London mosque a radical cleric who describes Jews as monkeys and pigs.

Perhaps while the Muslim Council is accusing others of bigotry it would like to share with us its enlightened views on homosexuality and arranged marriages.

Islamophobia is just another of those catch-all, smear-the-messenger fantasies dreamed up to close down debate and stifle free speech.

When you examine closely Baris latest outburst, it is nothing short of monstrous. What he is saying is that every Muslim in this country is a potential terrorist.

If anything is guaranteed to increase suspicion of Muslims it is incendiary statements like that.

The anniversary of the attacks on America should be an occasion for sober reflection and remembrance. But the MCB has never met an atrocity it didnt try to exploit. Their tactic is always the same.

After their perfunctory condemnation of terrorism, theres always the caveat about British foreign policy in the Middle East and the assertion that the real victims are not those who have actually been blown to smithereens but Muslims themselves.

While they could never condone what has happened, we are invited to understand the anger and alienation which cause young men to turn themselves into human bombs.

The fact is that this jihad started long before 9/11, years before Iraq and Afghanistan. The first attack on the World Trade Centre was in 1993.

And I still fail to understand how the mass murder of thousands of people, among them many Muslims, could inspire anyone to become radicalised. Youd expect it to have precisely the opposite effect.

Young British Muslims are being poisoned by fanatical elements within their own faith by the kind of maniac Muhammad Abdul Bari thinks is a suitable person to preach at his mosque.

There is undoubtedly alienation and anger out there. And not just among young Muslims. Poverty, discrimination and unemployment is not the exclusive preserve of any one religion or racial background.

Obviously just an opinion: But Very Funny


Richard Littlejohn: C**t


29 May 2005


Richard Littlejohn is a c**t.

Actually, no. We take that back. Richard Littlejohn is a C**T. A loathsome, nauseating, uppercase C**T. And if you think this is ill-conceived, infantile ranting, you should at least be happy that we're not being paid 800,000 a year to make it up. Furthermore, if you disagree, and think he is anything less than a C**T, you are wrong, and probably Nick Griffin. If you think however, that he is so *obviously* a C**T that it really doesn't need spelling out, you may have a point. But this week he is in the news, so we felt obliged.

Littlejohn is in the news because he is about to move back from the Sun to the Daily Mail. And, like it or not, when Britain's best-paid and most well-known columnist changes desks, it's news. Actually there isn't a week goes by when we don't get the urge to attempt to put into words how much Richard Littlejohn makes us despair at the depths to which humanity can sink, but usually we don't. We know that despairing at Littlejohn is like waving a fist at the wind. It is wholly pointless. Littlejohn is a force of nature at its cruellest, an abhorrent act of a misanthropic, incomprehensible god.

He is not dissimilar to child abuse. Any human being with even the tiniest shard of humanity understands that he is wrong and should be eradicated, but he exists, and he always will. He is a virulent cancer which attacks the soul of human society and threatens to destroy all that is benign. Weak cells fall prey to his malignancy, taking on his sick, destructive hue. Mirroring Nazi strategies in 1930s Germany, Littlejohn gives the fearful something on which to hang their fears. He provides the desperate with someone to blame.

Littlejohn's opinions are not so much knee-jerk, as epically epileptic. Every single week he goose-steps all over the same old targets like some Pavlovian viper, frothing at the bile-twisted mouth about asylum seekers and homosexuals, single parents and the French, foreigners in general and Guardian readers, peaceniks, welfare spongers and hand-wringing, bleeding heart, homosexual Liberals. His column for Tuesday for example, began, 'If ever there was a case for bringing back the workhouse....' He isn't joking. That same column ends, 'The welfare state was a good idea in principle but it has ended up subsidising the terminally selfish, stupid and lazy... As someone once said: we are all going to hell in a handcart.'

We despair. Littlejohn *is* Satan. Here's another of our favourite quotes from the time of the genocide in Rwanda: 'Does anyone really give a monkey's about what happens in Rwanda? If the Mbongo tribe wants to wipe out the Mbingo tribe then as far as I am concerned that is entirely a matter for them.' Satan.

What is really frightening about Littlejohn is that he is exactly witless enough, charmless enough, and has exactly the right combination of prejudices and lowest common denominator political ideals to make a hugely successful politician. We know that he yearns for the limelight - his main reason for leaving the Sun seems to have been that Murdoch reneged on their agreement to keep him on the telly three times a week for the rest of his life - and he's just now moving into the right age bracket to be trusted by youth-fearing Conservatives. Just think, within a couple of years, Littlejohn could be a Norman Tebbit for thehappy slapper generation. You're shaking your head. You're thinking, 'No, he's too stupid, too populist.' We hope so.

This week Paul Dacre, editor of the Daily Mail, said: 'By turns witty, scabrous, wise, always penetrating but never dull, Richard takes no prisoners with his outspoken views and comment. Whether you come from the Left or the Right, he is required reading. I am absolutely delighted that he will be returning to his spiritual home later this year.'

BNP leader Nick Griffin has described Littlejohn as his favourite writer.

The Holy Scripture of Islam is the Old Testament, the New Testament, and the Koran. When the Prophet Muhammad spoke of the people of the scriptures, the books, he was referring to the Jews (The Old Testament) and the Christians (The Old Testament and the New Testament). The Koran Chapter Sura 9:29-30 states clearly, Make War on the Christians and the Jews...Do battle with them! Kill those who join other Gods with Allah wherever ye shall find them, and lay wait for them with every kind of ambush: but if they shall convert to Islam then let them go their way. (Koran Sura 9:5) For this you shall be rewarded with eternal paradise in Heaven with Allah, crystal clear streams, 72 virgins, wine without side effects, and the Garden of Eden forever. (Koran Sura 56). The Koran clearly and expressly commands all of the 1.3 billion Muslim people to engage in Holy War, Jihad, to conquer the world for Islam, for Allah. (Everyman, The Koran, Translated from the Arabic by J.M. Rodwell, J.M. Dent, Orion Publishing Group, London, 1994).

Radical Muslims not worthy of the religion


By ASLAM ABDULLAH

Special to the Review-Journal

Advertisement

The leader of al-Qaida in Iraq, Abu Hamza al-Muhajer, recently issued a decree to its supporters: Kill at least one American in the next two weeks "using a sniper rifle, explosive or whatever the battle may require."

Well, Abu Hamza al-Muhajer, I am an American too. Count me as the one of those you have asked your supporters to kill.

I am not alone, there are thousands of Muslims with me in Las Vegas, and many more millions in America, who are proud Americans and who are ready to face your challenge. You hide in your caves and behind the faces of civilians in Afghanistan and Iraq. You don't show your faces and you have no guts to face Muslims. You thrive on the misery of thousands of Muslim youth and children who are victims of despotism, poverty and ignorance.

During the past two decades, you have brought nothing but shame and disaster to your religion and your world.

You said you "invite you not to drop your weapons, and don't let your souls or your enemies rest until each one of you kills at least one American within a period that does not exceed 15 days with a sniper's gunshot or incendiary devices or Molotov cocktail or a suicide car bomb -- whatever the battle may require." I invite you to surrender, to seek forgiveness from God almighty for the senseless killing you and your supporters are involved in and repent for everything you have done.

You say that the word of God is the highest. Yes, it is. But you are not worthy of it. You have abandoned God and you have started worshipping your own satanic egos that rejoice at the killing of innocent people. You don't represent Muslims or, for that matter, any decent human being who believes in the sanctity of life. Many among us American Muslims have differences with our administration on domestic and foreign issues, just like many other Americans do. But the plurality of opinions does not mean that we deprive ourselves of the civility that God demands from us. America is our home and will always be our home. Its interests are ours, and its people are ours. When you talk of killing of Americans, you first have to kill 6 million or so Muslims who will stand for every American's right to live and enjoy the life as commanded by God.

By growing a beard, shouting some religious slogans and misquoting and misusing some verses of the divine scriptures, you cannot incite Muslims to do things that are contrary to our religion. Yes, you even fail to understand the basic Islamic principles of life and living. Islam demands peace in all aspects of life, Islam demands respect for life. Islam demands justice.

What you are doing in Iraq, Afghanistan, India or other parts of the world is anti-human and anti-divine. You are an enemy of Islam as much as you are an enemy of America. You must understand that God who entrusted you with life is the same God who spelled his spirit in every human being regardless of his or her religion or ethnicity or nationality or status. You are violating him.

We feel totally disgusted with your action and we condemn you without any reservation. Don't come to our mosques to preach this hatred. Don't visit our Islamic centers to spill the blood of innocents. Don't think that just because we share the same religion, we would show some sympathy to you. You are not of us. You don't belong to the religion whose followers are trying to live a peaceful life for themselves and others serving the divine according to their understanding. In our understanding of faith, you appear as anti-divine and anti-human. We reject you now as we rejected you yesterday.

There is nothing common between you and us.

We stand for life, you want to destroy it.

We accept the divine scheme of diversity in the world and you want to impose conformity.

We respect every human being simply because he or she is a creation of the divine, and you hate people based on their religion and ethnicity.

We support freedom and liberty and justice, and you promote bigotry, murder and strangulation.

You will never be able to find a sympathetic voice amidst us. Our differences with others will never lead us to do things that are fundamentally wrong in our faith, i. e. taking the lives of innocent people and killing others because they are different.

So on Sept. 11, when you will be hiding in your caves, we will be out in the streets paying tribute to those who you killed because you failed to see the beauty of life. We will condemn you once again the same way we have been doing ever since 9/11 because we are Muslim Americans.


Aslam Abdullah is director of the Islamic Soceity of Nevada.