Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

not if you're german!

George

Don't disagree, but....
At present we are doing our best at selling into those markets outside the EU but our biggest customer is still Europe. I doubt we will see any improvement selling elsewhere when we are shut out or have to pay tariffs on our sales to Europe. In fact some of what we make here is only because of European finance or as a result of being part of European groupings.

It is often claimed the Germans will still want to sell us BMWs even when we are outside EU and they will take our cars in return. Can't see that argument working. Those in UK that want BMWs can still afford them even with tariffs but for EU consumers the similar tariffs on our Datsuns and Hondas will knock sales. Germans sell top range, we sell mass market. We will suffer in the tariff war. Will new manufacturing investment come to UK or go elsewhere in Europe?

I only arrived in the UK in the late 1990's. But the inlaws tell me that for economic reasons the UK wanted into EU. The story of the mini gets brought up. A very popular product, but tariffs on any sales to Europe before entry to EU.

Voting in EU on economics. Only 50/50 on politics. But everything comes down to economics in the end.

WHY should WE have to pay tariffs???Not one country from
Iceland all the way to eastern Turkey pays ANY tariffs.....

And WHY should we be shut out of anywhere????

MORE LIES AND SCAREMONGERING!!!!...

will10---re ''but our biggest customer is still Europe''. This market is shrinking fast as a %age of global GDP, there is a much larger and growing market outside the EU. If we REMAIN we will have a share of a market place that is continually diminishing. Europe is fast losing it's importance on a worldwide stage, and imo this will continue to be the case.
2517

will - i don't know how many countries have joined eu in the last 15/20 years ...... it's probably quite a few, and of course many of those are effectively broke and thus causing an ever greater strain on the finances of other members ....... it also makes the whole ever more unwieldy and unable to change, due to the insane requirement for unanimous agreement on anything major ....... or of course no agreement at all except from the hierarchy in other matters

Grannyboy.

Tariffs do very much exist for non members selling into the EU.

There are various opt outs and other agreements. The UK will have to agree to tariffs on products that they wish to sell into the EU if similar products are produced in the EU.

We will not be shut out but will have to pay any tariffs.

Don't take my word try Google EU tariffs

i've just had a peek .....
it looks that there were 12 countries in 1994, increasing to 15 in 1995
eu is now 28 and growing

George

Don't disagree, big world out there we should go get their business.
Why would we be any better at it then we are now? Being in the EU now does not stop us selling to India, China. Can't see why being out suddenly will make us any better.
I think being out will make it easier for other countries to dump cheaper products into the UK.

Cynic

Don't disagree. Not a good economics in many cases.

being out will make it easier for other countries to dump cheaper products into the UK

i'ld be inclined to disagree, as theoretically at least, we would have the ability to make our own rules without being instructed or overruled by brussels

cynic

Yes.... but....
Tit for tat tariff wars will not necessarily work to our benefit if we want to boldly go out and capture the big world markets we aren't chasing at the present time.

as you rightly point out, tariff wars and protectionism can be dangerous places to tread ........ hence "theoretically"

We all remember this disloyalty from ALL those involved,
the most prominent was Osborne who sold his 'own countrymen'
down the river.....

mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/george-osborne-backs-80m-loan-1415960


EU supplied an 80 million loan at an interest rate of just 2%to
the company in Turkey..

And they DON'T pay tariffs on exports to the EU...

Granny boy.
Any non euro country providing goods to the EU in competition to euro manufacturers of similar goods face tariffs or pay EU charges for the privilege.(Norway). The EU may wave tariffs on some items.
Note the EU set low tariffs on Chinese steel in part due to UK lobbying.
If we leave we will have to negotiate access to the EU market. If we wish to sell our cars etc or other manufactured items that compete with those manufactured within the EU we will face tariffs. It may be that we can negiotate open access if we sign up to all the EU rules and regs and pay a sum.(Norway).
There is no way that EU car manufacturers will allow us free access to their market.

Why should anybody trust George Osborne’s Brexit scare figures?


Suzanne Moore

Monday 18 April 2016 12.10 BST


The chancellor has proved himself incapable of predicting anything accurately. There’s no reason to believe his Brexit forecasts are any more trustworthy



George Osborne claims families will be worse off by £4,300 a year in the event of Brexit. Photograph: Michael Reynolds/EPA



What happens the day after we vote Brexit? The first year? Anything? Nothing? Will anyone actually notice? These are the sort of questions I would like answered instead of being bombarded with fantasy scenarios. George Osborne has said that families will be £4,300 a year worse off if we leave Europe. Will I lose £4,300 from my income then in that first year? That’s a lot of money. No, I won’t. Nor will you. This is a figure conjured out of a Treasury report, forecasting a slowing down of the economy by 6% over a very large period of time. It is designed, as all electioneering now seems to be, to appeal to us purely on base self-interest: “I will vote for something only if there is financial reward in it for me personally.”



The reduction of the EU referendum to facts and figures – and largely figures that are not facts at all, but forecasts made by those who have got it significantly wrong in the past – is but one way this debate is a turn-off. A turn-off manifests itself in the form of turnout so it matters. It also reduces every argument about democracy to one about the economy, thus shutting down any space for alternative visions.

Either this is a huge moment for our country, our identity, our place in the world, or it is about which bunch of managers is more efficient. So we have two elites simply batting imaginary figures at each other over different kinds of meltdown, one financial, the other triggered by migration.



More: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/apr/18/george-osborne-brexit-scare-figures

Granny boy

Google EU notice 812 or EU preference for Turkey goods. Turkeys special treatment unlikely to apply to UK manufacturing.

Imagine Boris negiotiating

Boris . I say chaps can we still freely access the EU market. If we can't I'll...I'll .....oh pish posh pish... I'll leave

EU. Fuck off then.

will.

Tarrifs are a two way street, and seeing as they export more to us than we do to them....who would be the loser?

It is not Osborne making the claims. It is the Treasury who used the Treasury model to make the calculations.

Marx


On the face of it just because we import more from EU than we sell into it doesn't mean we have the upper hand. I understand EU sales to UK are less than 3% of EU GDP.
We have more to lose in sales to EU as a % of our total sales. To the EU, their sales to us is a very much smaller % of their total sales
No doubt an negotiated trade agreement is necessary and will benefit those companies selling in to each other at the current time.
But be in no doubt the EU holds most of the cards in any negotiation.

Spelling correction to previous. Sorry

Right Wingers having a go anything that moves on here.. what fun to see

Stan it's nothing to do with right wingers ,it's about IN or OUT ,oh i forgot you have no opinion ,now shut up you crazy fool.