Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

I use the word Brainwashed because there has to be something going on in the mind of a person who day after day , and year after year , persist's with endless post's to basically the same readers who basically have the same opinions they had previously , but this mind ignores any signs that this happens and carries on regardless . I'm sure in the World of Psychiatry there is a word used to describe this state , i won't try myself as it could offend .

Freda "Gobshite Of The Year" (recurring) :0)

Gutted ... I was hoping to win that this year Chris :-)

You have no chance Dil :o)

Lol

Haze,

What your mates have achieved this year.

Day After Day..........Alone on a hill....

I agree with Fred ,feck em if they got a job and stop all their benefits cos after all they're probably all Labour voters.

That is what you were implying wasn't it Fred ?

And what the hell has that got to do with leaving the EU ?

Brexit IS going to be a success.

Loads of well experienced trade negotiators are being hired:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/897902/brexit-latest-uk-global-trade-links-negotiators-hired-eu

Exec.

Who is paying the bill for Brexit at the end of the day?

Haystack nailed it!

Max.

One to put above your bed.

Last full year of EU membership coming up , happy days eh Fred.

Have a happy new year all.

Worth putting on here because it can't be read without a subscription;

From: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2017/12/31/nigel-farage-establishment-targeted-leave-campaign-donors-attempting/

Establishment targeted Leave campaign donors after attempting to put UKIP out of business
NIGEL FARAGE
Nigel Farage 31 DECEMBER 2017 • 10:17PM
672 Comments (as I type)

Nigel Farage says there has been a concerted attempt by the Establishment to put UKIP out of business

The Telegraph’s recent exposure of the Establishment targeting Leave campaign donors by hitting them with a 20 per cent inheritance tax bill on their gift raises fundamental questions about the functioning of our democracy.

If, as seems to be the case, pro-EU corporates donated without penalty but anti-EU entrepreneurs like Arron Banks and Stuart Wheeler have been punished merely for supporting the Leave side, it is little wonder that many Remoaners now want a second referendum.

This disgraceful stitch-up calls to mind another story about which I have so far kept quiet but which presents an even greater danger to our democracy.

For more than a decade there has been a concerted attempt by the Establishment to put UKIP out of business.

As a new party, it was difficult enough to promote our message of wanting to return Britain to being a self-governing, independent nation while constantly being accused of racism and xenophobia. Without money, however, the job would have been impossible.

Until 2004, UKIP was written off as an eccentric dad’s army with too much time on its hands. Indeed, I always knew it was a UKIP meeting by the number of RAF Bomber Command ties being worn by attendees in the front row.

Nigel Farage And Arron Banks picture
Nigel Farage And Arron Banks CREDIT: STEVE FINN

We were sincere and active, but we did not pose a genuine threat to the status quo at that time. All of that changed when I recruited Robert Kilroy-Silk to be a candidate at the European elections in 2004.

Through his being a former Labour MP and well known television host, our vote soared and we beat the Liberal Democrats into fourth place. It was at this point that UKIP had its first real contact with the Electoral Commission, set up under Tony Blair to stop foreign and anonymous interference in British politics.

Our problem was that in 2004 £360,000 had been received from a Kent bookmaker called Alan Bown. He was neither foreign nor anonymous. In fact, he wore houndstooth jackets so often that anybody spotting him from 100 yards would have known he could only have been a bookie.

In 2003 Mr Bown’s name was on the electoral roll. It was also on it in 2005. The problem was that his name was not on the roll in 2004.

Whether this was an oversight on his part or a clerical error by Thanet District Council, we will never know. In 2006 proceedings began which ensured that UKIP was dragged through the courts all the way up to the Supreme Court, where we appeared in 2010.

Stuart Wheeler picture
Stuart Wheeler CREDIT: GEOFF PUGH

Fortunately, we won by a vote of 4-3, and so a potential fine of £360,000 did not have to be paid. Had the judgment gone against us, I have no doubt it would have been the end of UKIP.

At the same point in time the pro-EU Liberal Democrats received £1.7 million from a man born in Scotland named Michael Brown who resided in Spain.

Not only was a false front company set up to make this donation, but the Lib Dems’ Mr Brown ended up with a serious conviction for fraud.

So, the Liberal Democrats had taken dirty money from a crooked donor based overseas who was not registered to vote in the UK. Despite this, and the original intention of the law, the Electoral Commission decided that the Lib Dems had acted in good faith. No charges were brought.

The different approach to these cases shows that serious institutional bias was just the beginning. It is not only the donors to the Brexit campaign who have been hit with demands from HMRC. So, too, have all significant UKIP donors.

Even though UKIP won the European Elections of 2014 - and in so doing became the first non-Labour or Tory party to win a national election since 1906 - we are not classed as a proper political party because we do not have two MPs in the House of Commons.

Neither at any point have we been awarded a single peerage, though the Lib Dems have an astonishing and quite ludicrous 100 members in the Upper House.

It is glaringly obvious that the British political structure is designed to keep the existing mainstream parties in place without the prospect of any new contenders upsetting these cosy arrangements. It is dominated by a two-party system – and, we now see, an attitude from HMRC - that means real democratic challenges are virtually impossible.

It cannot be said too many times: without the rise of UKIP there would never have been an EU referendum. That fair, open, democratic exercise simply wouldn’t have taken place.

Yet I am genuinely afraid that the Establishment, in the form of the Tories and Labour, plus the Electoral Commission and HMRC, is determined to make sure that nothing like it ever happens again.

If we want to live in a proper democracy and not merely a two-party state, the rules concerning donations need to change immediately.

If, as some think possible, we are forced to have a second referendum I believe that the Establishment will have a massive advantage over the Leave side thanks to its aggressive approach to any individual who wishes to donate to the Leave campaign.

I am pleased that Boris Johnson and Michael Gove joined The Telegraph last week in expressing outrage at HMRC’s behaviour, but they must speak up more often and more loudly for an open democracy, too.

Of course, some might disagree with what Nigel Farage has to say.

UKIP did indeed win the European Elections of 2014 despite UKIP not having any MPs, or being classed because of it, as a 'proper political party'.

When it mattered he did raise about 4m votes and he also rocked the foundations of our national government with what he had to say about the EU.

And then we had a Referendum to decide whether to leave the EU or stay in it.

When the 'Leave' result came in, Nigel Farage was proved correct when the incumbent PM, David Cameron, couldn't take the heat in the kitchen and resigned.

What he has to say about the persecution of 'Leave Donors' by HMRC, in comparison with the non-persecution of the 'Remain Donors' just totally stinks!

Most importantly, we need to see to it, that we live in a proper and decent democracy. The rules on donations do absolutely need changing immediately.

Heigh Ho said Roly.

Here's a bit more political controversy for you:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/21/keith-vaz-investigation-suspended-for-medical-reasons

below (from today's FT), according to fred, is one of the excellent reasons why UK should stay in EU where we have never ever had any control over the uncontrolled budget or the unaccountable profligacy of the MEP's and their hangers-on.....

Brussels prepares for battle over EU budget contributions
Brussels is preparing to call for a big increase in EU budget contributions during the 2020s in an effort to sustain the union’s post-Brexit spending power and cope with extra policy goals.