Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

Well , well the old my democratic right not to vote , so he doesn't vote ( people fought for it ) he then spends every gawd dam day knocking the out vote with endless pathetic ramblings against anyone and everyone , who ARE Tories did you know , I mean we are ALL Tories . Shocking really , can't get off his arse but spends endless hours moaning
about results of any vote . Meanwhile you say very little , but then I come along and knock two individuals ( I dare say their respected lawyers are to about raid my house any moment ) and all hell breaks loose from you , I'm the scum of the earth suddenly, I am what i am , i don't pretend to be above my station in life , but over the last few weeks i think very clearly you have given an incite into what you are about , well done , my spelling by the way isn't too bad see , P.O.M.P.O.U.S . J.U.M.P.E.D U.P. . P.R.E.M.A.D.O.N.N.A. S.P.O.I.L.T . By the way things can't be so good for you if you spend time on a BB arguing with washed out individuals , maybe your in the wrong place .

Has Corbyn or the Labour Party decided what it wants out of Brexit yet ?

I'm not even sure if they are officially for or against it even though it was Labour voters who won the day for the Brexit vote in Wales and large parts of the north of England.

Do you know their policy Fred ?

I would've thought Corbyn just wants to be on the right side of public opinion, Dil. By being non-committal, he's possibly playing a blinder, as he'll be able to latch onto and side with any change of public opinion if or when it occurs.

I would think Corbyn and others are happy to see the tories and brexiters implode.

Why should they help T. May and cohorts?

At the moment the cons and neo-cons and little people are doing a good job at self-destruction.

The problem is that at the moment they are taking others with them.

Haystack , I hope your Mums OK and healing , you shouldn't have to respond and explain her condition on here in answer to what was a disgusting and deplorable assault on your rights to Medical Treatment , the cheap jibe that recent free loaders are treated and why don't you change your mothers bandage yourself is beyond belief . You should demand an apology , as you and your Mother being lifelong Tax Payers are only receiving what they deserve .
I thought the days of , I am rich and am better than you , I make the rules , I want the EU to rule because it's best for me , I don't care about the rest of you , were declining , but apparently not . We are all getting older and parents more frail , these can be difficult times .

More likely that Labour will implode before next election.

Non loony Labour won't put up with him and the loonies forever and wait til they start de selecting the non loonies , that'll really be a vote loser.

It's probably time for a bit more on my (our?) hero Jacob Rees-Mogg.....

Taken from the Belfast Telegraph on 17 February 2018:

Why Rees-Mogg is tipped as next Tory PM and what it could mean for the (Irish) border
Kim Bielenberg on the rise of the maverick who may have Northern Ireland's future in his hands


Committed man: Jacob Rees-Mogg, with his wife Helena de Chair, is a blue-blooded Conservative and a devout Catholic

February 17 2018

The Conservative MP Jacob Rees-Mogg is the sort of chap whose idea of being casual is to wear a tweed jacket and tie at weekends, rather than his normal double-breasted pinstripe suit.

The politician peppers his conversations with Latin phrases, drives around in a 1968 Bentley and, as the father of six children, proudly boasts that he has never condescended to change a nappy in his life.

"Nanny would not think it a good idea for me to be changing nappies," the 48-year-old explained, defying modern conventions of parental political correctness. "She thinks it is her job."

The nanny concerned, Veronica Crook, seems to loom large in the life of this marble-mouthed maverick. She looked after him as a child and then he used her services himself when he became a father.

When he first stood for Parliament unsuccessfully in Scotland two decades ago, he went canvassing with Crook, who drove him around the constituency in his mother's Mercedes.

Until recently, the MP for Somerset North-East could be casually dismissed as a cosseted cartoon aristocrat. After all, he was playing second fiddle to a more chummy old Etonian chap, Boris Johnson.

But now, the commentariat is beginning to take the claims of Rees-Mogg to high office more seriously, as the leader of the arch-Brexiteers.

He is chairman of an influential committee of MPs campaigning against any attempt to water down the UK's commitment to telling the EU to get stuffed.

With the Conservative Party in disarray over Brexit and Theresa May teetering on the brink, Rees-Mogg is the bookies' favourite to be the next Tory prime minister. Preposterous? Is it any more outlandish a prospect than Donald Trump as President of the United States?

The prospect of a new age of Moggocracy cannot be ignored, and it is now conceivable that the future of the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic could be in the hands of the man leading the British charge against the EU.

Recently, one newspaper described him as the "MP for the 18th century whose time may have come".

That is a version of 'tiocfaidh ar la' that nobody, least of all the Shinners, really bargained for.

With Sinn Fein and the DUP failing to form a power-sharing executive, Northern Ireland may be facing direct rule by Mogg.

While Theresa May has struggled to make up her mind over which form Brexit takes, he is unambiguous in pushing for the UK to leave any kind of customs union or single market.

Unlike ministers on the Conservative benches, the backbencher does not sully his public utterances with any hint of compromise.

Before Britain ever decided to quit the EU, he declared the plans of Brussels eurocrats to be the "work of the devil".

In a characteristic flourish, he used the longest word ever recorded in the Houses of Parliament when lambasting the EU judiciary: "Let me indulge in the floccinaucinihilipilification (*) of EU judges." He later defined the word as "the action or habit of estimating as worthless".

Born into the upper classes as the son of William Rees-Mogg, editor of The Times, Jacob was reading the Financial Times at the age of eight and used a £50 inheritance from a departed uncle to invest in the stock market.

His now legendary nanny had the task of phoning his broker.

Aged 11, he had already made decent profits from his investments and even turned up at shareholders' meetings to give speeches.

In an interview as a teenager, the precocious Etonian told of his ambition to be a millionaire at 20, a multi-millionaire at 40 and prime minister at 70.

Rees-Mogg once recalled how he'd been sent out of class twice: the first time for wearing a large Tory rosette on his lapel, and a second time after arguing with a teacher about the infallibility of the Pope.

These infractions show the most important cornerstones of the Rees-Mogg philosophy - true blue-blooded Conservatism and devout Catholicism.

Asked if he would ever join Nigel Farage's UK Independence Party, the man elected as an MP in 2010, replied: "No! Never, never, never! I was born a Conservative and I shall die a Conservative."

Many of Rees-Mogg's views chime with those of social conservatives in Ireland who campaigned against gay marriage and now want to stop the repeal of the Eighth Amendment.

"I am a Catholic and I take the teachings of the Catholic Church seriously," he has said.

Outlining his opposition to same-sex marriage, he said: "Marriage is a sacrament, and the decision of what is a sacrament lies with the Church, not with Parliament."

The Church's teachings on faith and morals were "authoritative", he said, but added it was not for him to judge others.

However, he said he was completely opposed to abortion, arguing that it was "morally indefensible".

"Life is sacrosanct and begins at the point of conception," he has argued.

Placing himself outside the spectrum of mainstream British opinion, he said he was opposed to abortion in cases of rape: "A great wrong has been created at the point of a rape. The question is, does a second wrong make it any better?"

Stories abound about his privileged upbringing. Some of them are inevitably apocryphal. He denied that he once paid a boy at Eton to shield him with an umbrella from the rain on a cross-country run.

But he confirmed a story that his nanny and his maid did take turns to shield his neck from the sun with a book at the Glyndebourne opera festival. And he validated a report that, along with the King of Spain, he has exclusive access to an upstairs loo at Claridges.

The Irish government will no doubt fear that a Mogg premiership will inevitably lead to the border being closed between north and south in a hard Brexit situation, but his own position on the border is quite simple - do nothing.

He told a Conservative event in the autumn that post-Brexit Britain would not have to put up border posts stretching from Carlingford Lough to Lough Foyle.

"I don't care if a few hundredweight of beef is smuggled across the Irish border. It will make no odds to the British economy. We have no obligation to put any border up. Full stop," he said.

"Challenge the EU to do it. I just don't believe that they will, and I don't believe that the Irish will agree to them doing it."

At the same time, PM Mogg will not have any truck with the notion of a United Ireland. He gives his party its full title as the Conservative and Unionist Party and recently declared: "Northern Ireland is as much a part of the United Kingdom as Somerset."

If Mogg moves into 10 Downing Street, he may have to patch up some differences with Leo Varadkar.

Last month, Rees-Mogg took exception to remarks by the Taoiseach. Varadkar expressed regret that the UK was leaving the EU and said he was conscious of "British veterans, very brave people, who fought on the beaches of France, not just for Britain but also for European democracy and for European values".

Rees-Mogg took a swipe at the Republic's Second World War record. "Mr Varadkar forgets Ireland was neutral during the war, which implies it had no interest in Europe, and Eamon de Valera signed a book of condolence at the German Embassy in Dublin on the death of Hitler.

"Perhaps if Mr Varadkar knew his own country's undistinguished wartime history better, his views on our history would be more informed."

In order to be chosen as leader if Theresa May is deposed, he would first have to be chosen by fellow MPs to be one of the candidates who are then elected by members of the party.

Professor Philip Cowley, political scientist at Queen Mary University in London, predicted: "If he stands in any forthcoming leadership contest, (and) he gets through to the last two, he'll walk it."

Career: Educated at Eton and Oxford. Worked in investment banking before becoming an MP in 2010.

Family: Married to wealthy heiress Helena De Chair. They have six children - Peter Theodore Alphege, Mary Emma, Thomas Wentworth Somerset Dunstan, Anselm Charles Fitzwilliam, Alfred Wulfric Leyson Pius, Sixtus Dominic Boniface.

First words on Twitter: "Tempora mutantur, et nos mutamur in illis (the times change, and we change with them)."

Philosophy: "I want people to be able to get on with their lives without the Government bossing them about. I'm all in favour of nannies but not the nanny state."

Nanny fan with no time for a nanny state
Career: Educated at Eton and Oxford. Worked in investment banking before becoming an MP in 2010.

Family: Married to wealthy heiress Helena De Chair. They have six children — Peter Theodore Alphege, Mary Emma, Thomas Wentworth Somerset Dunstan, Anselm Charles Fitzwilliam, Alfred Wulfric Leyson Pius, Sixtus Dominic Boniface.

First words on Twitter: “Tempora mutantur, et nos mutamur in illis (the times change, and we change with them).”

Philosophy: “I want people to be able to get on with their lives without the Government bossing them about. I’m all in favour of nannies but not the nanny state.”

Belfast Telegraph

(*) floccinaucinihilipilification: pronounced "flock-sin-how-sinny-hilly-pilly-fick-ayshun"

Bristol University Conservative Organisation's speaking event at the University of Bristol for North East Somerset MP Jacob Rees-Mogg drew a sell-out audience

A very eloquent female protestor had this to say:

“The reason I’m here is that at the moment it seems very one-sided,” she said. “The tickets for the talk have run out, and it seems that the uni are accommodating his views. And so many of his views are racist and sexist, and we can’t as a diverse student body be seen to be condoning those views.

He called women that have abortions after been raped as having committed a ‘second wrong’, so he’s basically saying abortion is just as bad as rape."

You can see her speaking HERE

She went on....

“He wants EU nationals out, he voted against unaccompanied refugee children being reunited with their families – things like that don’t reflect the progressive climate that Bristol is here for,” she added.

“Obviously we say he has the right to speak – we’re not telling people to boycott, we’re not ‘no-platforming’ him, he has the right to speak, of course. But we also have the right to show that we are not happy with him,” she said.
.................................

Let's just discuss this bit:

".....so he’s basically saying abortion is just as bad as rape."

No he is not saying this at all.

Rees-Mogg is not "anti choice". He has his personal views but fully supports/respects democracy and the status quo of choice.

A murder is a "wrong". If the murderer robs the body, he has committed a "second wrong". But to say that a robbery "is as bad as" murder is a fallacy.

Rees-Mogg says that rape is a moral wrong. Using his catholic teachings as his 'moral rule book', he also feels that to take life at the point of conception is a religious moral wrong. But he does not say that these moral crimes are as bad as each other.

Rape is also a criminally wrong act. A legal pregnancy termination is not a criminally wrong act.

Importantly and furthermore, Rees-Mogg has no wish to force his views on the religious moral wrong of legal pregnancy termination on others.

What's his opinion on gay rights, same-sex marriage, tuition fees, fox hunting and smoking in public places, Doc?

I'd need to take a look on t'Internet to find out, Hils.

Importantly, whatever they are, they are his own views. I'm quite happy knowing that he has no wish to force them on to me.

He believes in 'nannies' too but he doesn't believe in us having a 'nanny government'. He believes very strongly in freedom of choice.

I cannot see what on earth can be wrong with any of that.

I find his clarity of communication and his explanations on his views to be utterly fascinating.

Hils, do please tell me what you have against him.

I haven't looked to confirm this but, being a man with strong religious principles, I would guess he holds marriage to be a sacramental relationship between a heterosexual couple and God and primarily to involve the creation of children under Christian family circumstances.

As such, this is why he cannot believe a gay marriage has true religious sacramental values.

But importantly, he has no wish to force his views on this on others.

I seem to remember, that when I read what they were, I thought his views on tuition fees to be utterly fantastic. Accordingly, I'll check them out accurately again and come back to you with what they are. I gave you a link up the page a few posts ago. It was a talk of his to University students. In it he clearly explains his views on lots of things including tuition fees and who should pay for them. They are totally un-knockable, IMHO.

I remember you said you didn't want to waste any of your time watching it. I think, that if you were to watch it, you'd actually become a convert. :-)

In March last year Jacob Rees-Mogg stood alone in being the only MP to vote not to work closer with Greece and Italy to support the reunification of unaccompanied refugee children with their families. He really was the only one to say no to the proposal.

I find this a bit strange because it does seem to contradict Christian/altruistic/family values. I'd like to do some research on why he holds and substantiates this view.

Here's most of his voting record:

Appearing on Good Morning Britain on Wednesday (not sure which Wednesday), Tory MP Jacob Rees-Mogg spoke about his opposition to abortion under all circumstances, including cases where a woman has been raped or incest has been committed.

Rees-Mogg pointed out that the right to abortion is in UK law and 'that law is not going to change'.

The west country MP has been touted as possible successor to Prime Minister Theresa May, both as leader of the Tory party and the country.

This idea, which gained traction over the summer when Parliament was in recess, is now suffering under the scrutiny of people finding out who Jacob Rees-Mogg is - beyond these memes about his being a 'loveable eccentric'.

Rees-Mogg has been an MP since 2010, and in that time has voted on a number of social issues.

Decriminalising abortion
13 March 2017: The government sought to decriminalise abortion and make changes to access to termination of pregnancies by medical practitioners.
Ress-Mogg voted against.

Reuniting unaccompanied refugee children with their families
1 March 2017: The government bill called for working with Greece and Italy to reunite unaccompanied refugee children with their families, and also for local authorities in the UK to monitor their own capacity to support unaccompanied refugee children.
Rees-Mogg voted against.

Repealing the Human Rights Act
26 May 2016: During the Queen's Speech debate in May 2016, the last to be held under David Cameron's premiership, MPs voted on repealing the Human Rights Act 1998, which allowed UK citizens to have their human rights defended in UK courts.
Rees-Mogg voted to repeal. He also supported a similar repeal bill in 2012.

Spending at least 0.7 per cent of national income each year on international aid
5 December 2014: Third reading of the International Development (Official Development Assistance Target) Bill. According to Public Whip The UK's Gross National Income was $2.521 trillion USD in 2013, 0.7% of which equals 17 billion dollars or around 10 billion pounds.
Rees-Mogg voted against.

Same-sex marriage
21 May 2013: David Cameron's same-sex marriage bill, which became law, allowed same-sex couples to marry, whereas previously they had only been allowed to enter into 'civil partnerships' since 2004.
Rees-Mogg voted no.

He also voted no on votes to extend divorce rights to same-sex couples, and to extend the right to gay marriage to armed forces personnel serving overseas.

Abolishing public subsidies for electricity generating wind farms
6 March 2015: A bill to abolish public money going to set up new wind farms was presented by the backbench MP Peter Bone.
Rees-Mogg voted in favour.

Mass surveillance and the bulk interception of communications
7 June 2015: The government's latest Investigatory Powers Bill gave authorities the power to engage in equipment interference, the retention and examination of bulk personal datasets subject to some safeguards.
Public Whip summed up the bill:
Provisions supported by the majority of MPs could allow the mass interception of people's communications as well as the retention and use by the state of datasets which could include personal banking, travel, and health data.
Rees-Mogg voted in favour.
Mr Rees-Mogg spoke to indy100 shortly after publication to clarify why he voted in favour of the Investigatory Powers Bill - arguing that "most votes are whipped votes" and recommending that the people treat the They Work For You website with caution.
"The key thing is, most votes are whipped votes," explained Mr Rees-Mogg, "and I've voted with the government since 2010."
I wouldn't read into that that I'm in favour of mass surveillance.
He explained that the bill was "so widely supported, there was not a reason to vote against it," adding "the Labour party weren't going to oppose it."
But, just because he voted in favour does not mean that he takes the matter of mass surveillance lightly.
Freedom from unnecessary surveillance is an important constitutional protection - when we face a terrorist threat - it's easy to throw the baby out with the bath water.
The government in their nature ask for more powers, and we must be exceedingly careful to treat those laws with the greatest of caution.
Speaking on They Work for You, Mr Rees-Mogg told indy100 that the press and public should treat the site with caution, adding that certain aspects or votes can on occasion be misleading and certain "nuances can be missed".

A poll published by YouGov on Wednesday found that more than half responded 'don't know' when asked if they hold a favourable opinion of Jacob Rees-Mogg.
The same was true of 44 per cent of Conservative voters.
For context, only 12 per cent of voters held no opinion either way regarding Theresa May, and only 14 per cent about Boris Johnson.
On the subject of the increased scrutiny from the public and the press following his Good Morning Britain interview on Wednesday, Mr Rees-Mogg told indy100 that people are "completely entitled to ask my views - that's what democracy is about."

"It's important to bear in mind that there are views that may affect legislation, and views that do not."

"I believe in scrutiny and strongly in the free press - I was one of 13 to vote against some of the Leveson stuff - against 530 who wanted to clamp down and muzzle the free press."

"If you enter into political life, you are of course going to be placed under scrutiny."

Doc,

Moggy is perfectly entitled to his views, and I don't have any issue with him personally. That said, I am a bit confused that he's quite happy for parents to harm their childrens' health through smoking in cars, when he also believes those same children have had a right to live a healthy life since before they were born.

Where I have an issue, however, is that, if he were to go on and lead the Conservative party, those views from a bygone age would cost the party votes. When the public vote at elections, they don't always vote for what their local candidate is going to do for the community in terms of representing the community's needs in parliament. Many people vote for the party at large for their policies, and the party leader acts as a mouthpiece for those policies. A party leader with strange personal beliefs can easily confuse people into thinking that the whole party stands for those beliefs.

So, do you think that the gay community are more or less likely to vote Conservative with Moggy at the helm? And ditto those who don't like cruelty to animals? And ditto those with teenage children about to go to university? And ditto those who have lost relatives through smoking related diseases?

If you note, Blair and Cameron both got elected by aligning their parties with the centre ground, and by trying to sell themselves as normal folks. The public rejected the likes of Kinnock, Brown and Milliband as nutjobs. What do you think they'd do with Moggy?

They'd probably vote for Corbyn or whoever happens to be leader of the Libdems at the time. They clearly have control of the centre ground. Just as long as they can manage to lower the voting age to 15.

I do take your points, Hils, and which are very good ones. But they don't necessarily lead to the conclusions you make.

eg. Better not make any movies with sophisticated plots then, eh? Because nobody is ever going to be able to understand them. That is so 'not so'.

If you regard JRM's personal views in a way which makes him a quite 'quirky' kind of a guy, then you begin to find out from what he has to say, that what he does have and in spades, is a very charismatic and likeable personality. He is also very brave and strong in his personal beliefs and that's what we want our political leaders to have. Most people will allow him the pleasure to have whatever personal beliefs he wants - so long as he doesn't want to ram them down the throats of others. He is a political giant par excellence, too.

The biggest question to ask, is, "Does he have the brain power, oratory skill and political strength to lead the government?"

A growing section of the whole political and domestic community are definitely being won over as fans, and in droves, and they would reply to that question with a resounding, "Yes."

He is a very, very 'with it' guy. And he relishes political debate and usually wins you, the observer, over with his simple take on things.

With his usual political skill and charismatic wit, here he is hosting a spot on LBC radio:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpnt-Qu1fns

"We shall have to take our business elsewhere."

Notice the jacket is NOT double breasted.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/20/tory-mps-sign-letter-to-theresa-may-outlining-hard-brexit-goals