Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

The last few still hanging on in hope that we can stay in .

Britain can sign trade deals while in single market, Brussels rules



Oliver Wright, Policy Editor | Bruno Waterfield, Brussels


March 15 2018, 12:01am,
The Times




EU negotiators have accepted the UK’s demand that it should be able to pursue an independent trade policy while remaining inside the customs union and single market.

Publicly, the EU’s negotiating guidelines still state that Britain will not be able to implement trade deals “unless authorised to do so by the union”. Behind closed doors the position taken by Michel Barnier, the bloc’s chief negotiator, is understood to have softened significantly. The latest draft of a potential transition deal says that Britain will be able to both negotiate and sign trade deals during the period.


More if you sign up: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/britain-can-sign-trade-deals-while-in-single-market-brussels-rules-grvz62qkv

Perhaps, Barnier is in a hurry to get rid of England.

Hope so.

h/t to MT across the road.




It’s Quite OK to Walk Away - A review of the UK’s Brexit options with the help of seven international databases - Michael Burrage

Worth a read if only because the Remain Camp dislikes it with a passion.



Introduction to the Summary:

The image of the EU’s Single Market as an economically successful project, and as ‘a vital national interest’ for the UK, has rested on the hopes and repeated assurances of leading politicians, on a sympathetic media, and on the occasional endorsements of individual companies, rather than on any credible evidence about its bene ts for the UK economy as a whole.

No UK government over the past 23 years has sought to monitor its impact until the rushed analysis of HM Treasury published just before the referendum. On many counts, this was an unreliable and untrustworthy document. There is, therefore, no authoritative evidence to enable one to assess the economic consequences of the government’s decision to leave the Single Market, or of any future agreement it might negotiate, or of a decision to leave with no deal and to trade with the EU under World Trade Organization (WTO) rules.

Seven international databases are used in this report to assess the bene ts of the Single Market for the UK, and to compare its performance with that of other EU members, and with non- members who have traded with the EU either as members of the European Economic Area (EEA), or under bilateral agreements or as WTO members.

The key metric in this report is the growth of exports, since that is what the Single Market was expected to deliver for the UK, and is often thought to have delivered. The data presented shows, by multiple measures, that this has not happened. By comparison with the Common Market decades from 1973 to 1992, the Single Market years from 1993 to 2015 have been an era of declining UK export growth to the EU.

When ranked among the top 40 fastest-growing exporters to the other founder members of the Single Market the UK comes 36th. It has been surpassed by numerous countries trading with the EU under WTO rules. Moreover, the growth of UK exports to the 111 countries, with which it has itself traded under WTO rules since 1993, has been four times greater than that of its exports to the EU.

Over the 43 years of EU membership, UK exports of goods to 11 long-standing members of the EU have grown just two per cent more, and at a compound annual growth rate (CAGR) just 0.02 percentage points higher, than 14 countries trading under WTO rules. EU12 exports to each other have grown just 1 per cent more than the exports of these 14 countries.

In other words, the growth of goods exports of the UK to 11 long-standing members of the EU over these 43 years are barely distinguishable from those of 14 countries exporting under WTO rules, and they of course have not incurred any of the costs of EU membership.

Over the 23 years of the Single Market, however, exports from these same 14 countries have grown 27 per cent more than exports from the UK, at a CAGR that is 0.93 points higher. Norway and Iceland, members of the EEA, and Swi erland and Turkey, which have had bilateral agreements with EU over most of these years, have performed similarly and very much better than the EU members and the UK.



The other 170 odd pages are here: hTTp://www.civitas.org.uk/content/files/itsquiteoktowalkaway.pdf

375 more days of Fred moaning to go .... as a citizen of the EU

Huff and puff again!

Enjoy your final year as a citizen of your beloved EU :-)

If you don't want mass immigration, then press the UK government to take away the reasons (read benefits) for people wanting to migrate to the UK in the first place. Like free housing, free healthcare, and free cash for bum warming the sofa each day.

Hils , can't do that without doing the same to our own.

Numbers are starting to come down now anyway so I can put up with an extra 2 years , rather that than in perpetuity.

Even Barny seemed happy today , it's happening Fred get used to it ... Blue passports all round :-)

There's more than one way of skinning a cat, Dilbert, and I've said exactly the same on this thread several times before.

So, by way of an example, you don't give housing or unemployment benefit to anyone who hasn't held a NI number for 5 years. That would allow native Brits to claim once they reach the age of 20/21, but not immigrants (from the EU or elsewhere) who turn up thinking the streets of London are paved with gold.

Cameron had 6 years before the Brexit vote to get immigration under control (that was an integral part of his 2010 election manifesto, remember?), and both he and Maggie Dismay (as the then Home Secretary) failed to fulfill their promises.

Hils , I don't think that would be allowed under EU law as it still discriminates against EU nationals.

Without controlling EU immigration then targets could never be met. Could have reduced non EU immigration but why let a load of free loaders in at the expense of say doctors and nurses just to get the figures right ?

Of course it would be allowed, Dil.

The rule is simply that all EU member states merely need to treat citizens of other member states in exactly the same way as they treat their own. Other countries manage to play the system successfully, so why are the Brits so straight-laced? For instance, you need to pay into the French social security system for 4 years before you get anything.

And discouraging the doctors and other professionals? They're not the ones who want the free benefits, so they'll still come and be net contributors regardless.

Come on Dil don't let Roger Federer's love child get the better of you!

lol :-)

And the fishermen of England?

From the Telewag

Jacob Rees-Mogg to fling fish from trawler on Thames in protest for fishermen 'betrayed' by May's Brexit deal

Jacob Rees-Mogg, leader of a 60-strong group of Eurosceptic Conservative MPs, and others are due to board a boat and pass by Parliament throwing fish into the Thames in protest at the alleged “sellout”

Gordon Rayner, political editor Christopher Hope, chief political correspondent Simon Johnson
19 MARCH 2018 • 9:30PM

Theresa May is facing a Brexit backlash from Tory MPs over her "abject betrayal" of Britain's fishermen with rebels planning a fishing boat protest on the Thames.

Jacob Rees-Mogg, leader of a 60-strong group of Eurosceptic Conservative MPs, and others are due to board a boat and pass by Parliament throwing fish into the Thames in protest at the alleged “sellout”.

A Brexit transition deal agreed with Brussels allows the EU to maintain control of Britain’s territorial waters until the end of 2020, which protestors described as “a potential death sentence” for the British fishing fleet.

Ruth Davidson, the Scottish Conservatives leader, joined the growing rebellion as she warned Mrs May that the 13 Tory MPs north of the border will oppose any Brexit deal that “fails to deliver full control over fish stocks and vessel access”.

Douglas Ross, the Moray MP, said: “It would be easier to get someone to drink a pint of cold sick than to sell this as a success.”

The controversy over fishing rights was one of a series of climb-downs announced by Brexit Secretary David Davis ahead of a meeting of EU leaders this week to ratify the transition deal.

The protest will draw comparisons to the Brexit referendum row between Bob Geldof and Nigel Farage
The protest will draw comparisons to the Brexit referendum row between Bob Geldof and Nigel Farage CREDIT: NICK EDWARDS
Mrs May also abandoned her personal pledge that free movement would end on Brexit day in March next year. EU migrants arriving during the transition period will now have the same rights as those arriving before Brexit.

On the Irish border question, the Government accepted that if no agreement can be reached on a bespoke customs arrangement for Northern Ireland, a “backstop” option of regulatory alignment with the EU will be written into the legal text of the transition deal.

The Government has also accepted the EU’s timetable of transition ending on New Year’s Eve 2020, three months earlier than the two years ministers wanted.

The controversy over fishing rights was one of a series of climb-downs announced by Brexit Secretary David Davis

Downing Street highlighted the fact that Britain has won the right to not only negotiate but also sign trade deals during the transition period, that British citizens will maintain full freedom of movement in the EU until the end of transition, and that the transition agreement will apply in full to Gibraltar, contrary to the wishes of Spain and much of the EU.

Mr Davis and the EU’s chief Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier hailed the agreement as “a decisive step” towards Britain’s final withdrawal from the EU, and the agreement was broadly welcomed by businesses as providing greater certainty about the future, prompting a jump in the value of the pound.

But the issue of fishing rights is likely to overshadow Thursday’s European Council meeting. Fishermen had wanted the UK to regain full control over access to the country's fishing waters immediately after the country formally leaves the European Union in March next year.

Instead, the EU will maintain control via the Common Fisheries Policy, with Britain only allowed to be “consulted” on quotas until the start of 2021.

Campaigners fear that Britain’s fishing fleet, which comprises 500 boats which are over 12 metres (30 feet) in length, and 3,000 boats under 10 metres long, will be radically cut back because of the deal.

Mr Rees-Mogg, joined by Tory MPs including Craig MacKinlay and Sheryll Murray, intend to board a fishing boat on Wednesday and throw a box of haddock, skate and bass into the Thames to draw attention to Mrs May’s alleged betrayal.

Alan Hastings, a spokesman for Fishing For Leave which is organising the protest, said: “This is a death sentence for what is left of the EU fleet because the EU will enforce detrimental legislation, especially the discard ban, to cull the EU fleet and then claim the resources we can’t catch any more as their own.

“The EU has every incentive to wipe us out in 21 months and they will be ruthless enough to do it. And our lot have put us in this position.”

He said the protest was necessary because “being trapped in the transition is an existential threat and a potential death sentence for what is left of the UK fleet”.

Mr Rees-Mogg’s trawler stunt is likely to evoke memories of the “Battle of the Thames” days before the EU Referendum in 2016.

On that occasion, Remain campaigners led by Bob Geldof traded insults with Brexiteers including Nigel Farage as they chugged up and down the river outside Parliament.

Campaigners for the "Leave" and "Remain" campaigns demonstrate in boats on the River Thames outside the Houses of Parliament in June 2016

Mr Rees-Mogg’s European Research Group had until now largely supported Mrs May in the Brexit negotiations, but a spokesman for the ERG said: “If Brexit means Brexit, we have to take control of our fish."

A friend of Mr Rees-Mogg said there was an "absolute need to take control of UK waters. The transition is appalling for our fishermen". Ms Davidson said the transition deal was “an undoubted disappointment” for fishermen, while the Fishing for Leave campaign group accused David Davis of an “abject, disgusting betrayal” and demanded both he and Mrs May resign.

In a statement agreed by the group of 13 Scottish Tory MPs, Ms Davidson said she wanted to make clear that she would refuse to support a final deal that “fails to deliver that full control over fish stocks and vessel access.” It is understood David Mundell, the Scottish Secretary, supports the ultimatum.

Mrs May’s minority government could struggle to get a Brexit deal through parliament without their support. Fishing is a totemic issue not only for the Tories but for Michael Gove, the Environment Secretary, who has spoken passionately about his upbringing in Aberdeen where he claimed his family’s fish processing firm was destroyed by EU fishing policies.

Last week Mr Gove joined forces with Ms Davidson to say Britain must leave the Common Fisheries Policy in March next year and rejected the EU’s demand for “existing” access to UK waters in a future trade deal.

The Conservatives are sensitive to criticism over fishing because it won key coastal seats in Scotland and on the west coast in the general election after making promises about using Brexit to protect the fishing industry.

Lol M

Hils , going on your theory we might as well just say anyone born in the UK can be treated differently ... sorry that don't wash.

And we shouldn't have to bend rules , if they are crap they shouldn't exist to start with.

All be irrelevant soon , can do what we want come Independence Day :-)

Regarding fishing rights my opinion is that we can't have a transition period in one area and not another.

I would have left by now with no transition period if it were up to me.

Jacob Rees-Mogg to fling fish from trawler on Thames in protest for fishermen 'betrayed' by May's Brexit deal


”
Jacob Rees-Mogg, leader of a 60-strong group of Eurosceptic Conservative MPs, and others are due to board a boat and pass by Parliament throwing fish into the Thames in protest at the alleged “sellout” Credit: HANNAH MCKAY/REUTERS



Christopher Hope, Chief Political Correspondent and
Simon Johnson
19 March 2018 • 9:30pm




Theresa May is facing a Brexit backlash from Tory MPs over her "abject betrayal" of Britain's fishermen with rebels planning a fishing boat protest on the Thames.

Jacob Rees-Mogg, leader of a 60-strong group of Eurosceptic Conservative MPs, and others are due to board a boat and pass by Parliament throwing fish into the Thames in protest at the alleged “sellout”.

A Brexit transition deal agreed with Brussels allows the EU to maintain control of Britain’s territorial waters until the end of 2020, which protestors described as “a potential death sentence” for the British fishing fleet.

Ruth Davidson, the Scottish Conservatives leader, joined the growing rebellion as she warned Mrs May that the...



More if you sign up: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/03/19/jacob-rees-mogg-fling-fish-trawler-thames-protest-fishermen/