Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

Being sensible wasn't on the ballot sheet. Much of the argument given by the FT was in the Government crib sheet.
The question was "should the UK remain a member of the EU or leave the EU?"
So what is the EU? - a political and economic union of 28 states with four key institutions - EU Commission; EU Parliament; EU Council and ECJ.
Until we have left and are no longer answerable to those institutions then Brexit has not occurred. There is nothing to stop the UK leaving the EU and having a free trade agreement which comes into force the second after it leaves the EU. With the possible exception of Unite, I doubt most people are against free trade or reasonable freedom of movement. As it happens, most of the pressure on UK social resources is from outside the EU, which it seems particularly useless at curbing.

brain washing, have thrown back them that were out, gullible is the word,
call for referendum, you hear it all the time from those that want to stay in
keep your first one is OUT. sack the brussells, or boil them, costing you money.

Cynic.

Is your name Saul or Paul with weak knees?

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Iturama,

I keep saying this and, at the risk of sounding repetitive, I'll say to once more...

Although people might be to ashamed to admit it, Brexit is nearly all about immigration!

If you've spent the last 20 years queuing 8 hours a day for a loaf of bread, and somebody says 'go to England - they'll give a free home, free healthcare, free schooling, and they'll give you money each week so you don't have to find work', then it's a no-brainer that you're going to get hoardes of eastern-Europeans and north Africans banging on the door to get in.

So, you change your domestic laws such that nobody gets the free goodie bag till they've lived in the country for 5 years. Indigenous Brits wouldn't be affected by that law change, and the EU wouldn't have any issue with it. And the funny thing is that you wouldn't need to leave the EU to change the law!

The remainers think another vote would be in their favour, having ground down the public, which was always their intention imo. They may get a huge shock and get a even bigger OUT vote, leaving little choice but exit without delay.

I am against another vote but rather than be left in limbo there is little other choice if the MP`s will not bow to the will of the 52% of the people.

The problem, Clocktower, is that your 52% has now waned to 39% according to the most recent polls.

A second referendum on the same question would be fundamentally so undemocratic that it will never occur.

Hilary, you are correct in the case of many, but not all. It was not a factor in my case. I just wanted rid of an expensive bloated bureaucratic tower of Babel that is becoming increasingly divisive and unwieldy.
It sounds easy to say that you are not getting benefits until you have been here five years but the fact is that for many years landed immigrants with children have been given accommodation priority over UK nationals that can stay with mum and dad. I would warrant that the majority of the people sleeping on the streets today are UK citizens.

Interesting to listen to some of the mantras of the exiters.
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“We want our sovereignty, independence and law-making abilities back!”

Maybe, fine for some, for those who never leave or have dealings outside the UK shores.

But if you deal with any “foreign” countries like the those in the EU etc, then you are subject to “International” laws if your dealings go wrong.

You are or could be dependent on arbitrations of “International courts” and one level or another in any “legal” dispute.

Similar exposure for “criminal acts”.

At least if being a member of the EU, one has the possibility of making or modifying the rules, laws and regulations.

Also, know the products of those countries of the EU we trade with, in general, apply common "quality" and "health" standards on goods passing across "borders".

The energy of those wanting their sovereignty back would better off modifying “present poor or outdated laws” etc, and improving the penal and judicial systems of our own and those countries we have dealings with.

I'm not sure that a second referendum would be on the same question, Iturama.

I suspect it would be a three-way choice of accepting Maggie's deal, leave with no-deal, or remain. Three-way referenda are unusual, but not unheard of. The problem comes when no side get an overall majority and whether you then factor in second choice votes (eg. AV). That alone could produce a different outcome, so I'm sure the government would want to take suitable advice to ensure that you all stay.

:o)

A second referendum on the same question would be fundamentally so undemocratic that it will never occur.


Another sweeping statement which could have been written on the side of a bus before the last referendum.

Laws, rules, regulations, and results of elections, decisions are revised every day.

Policies are recognised as poor and then changed.

Very little is sacrosanct.

Unless one has the belief that a reopening of a debate or argument will be dismissive of a previous stance or positioning.

Fred, when was the last time we had a referendum? It is not a rule or regulation.
What is Micron's popularity at the moment? Should the French rerun the election for President? At least that is a regular event.
"We should work within the EU for change" - the vast majority are supplicants living off the donations of a few after the EU commissariat has taken its obscene cut. That is like asking turkeys to vote for Christmas. Sometimes the best way is to walk out and let the mob stew in their own juice.
You don't vote anyhow so a referendum or election is irrelevant to you. You just like to differ without offering solutions.

112 days to go Hils , keep praying :-)

Dil.

Which god or idol are you praying to save you now?

Maybe Fred is unable to vote like many other British subjects - so bearing that in mind Fred like many others has every right to say what he thinks, even if many are not in aggreement - have any of us got ALL the answers?

Fred keep up the good work and keep posting those cartoons but how about a few about JC and Co.

Nice one Fred but what about a fair balance and post a JC one.

TM`s last Christmas at number 10 ?

Boris seems to be getting ready to make a big move. He has been inspired by Churchill and seems to want to play at being Churchill himself.

Big problem though. Nobody else really wants Boris to be the one who takes over.

TM is making a mess of it - but she does look kinda neat and tidy and does exude a magnificent command of the problems, even though she then messes up as she co-oerces her way through.

I cannot believe that Boris, the messy haired buffoon, would do better. In fact he would not coerce, he would just bluster his way through. We all know him now to be not as good as he thinks he is.

Johnson and Churchill in the same sentence? ha ha!..some of you outer's really do make me laugh sometimes.

Here's a really good way to get to the backstop problem solution:

Sir Graham Brady, chairman of the 1922 Committee of Tory backbenchers, has publicly urged the Prime Minister to put off the vote until the party row over the so-called Northern Ireland backstop could be resolved.

Sir Graham said: “I think the most important thing is to have clarity about how we might remove ourselves from a backstop if we were ever to enter into one in the future.”

He added: "It's having the answer to that question of substance that is most important, not the timing, so if that question can be answered in the course of the next few days then all well and good.

would BJ be preferable to corbyn as pm?
perish the thought that either ever gets the chance