Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

Oh you're such a sour puss.

the opposite .... spitefully gleeful perhaps :-)

Not on here you're not... go and have a round of 🏌️‍♂️

Manuel and 2 1/2.

As usual, you show your ignorance about me and various periods of UK society as a whole.

Perhaps. you should visit the areas where heavy industries were, and to a lesser degree still are, in this England, Scotland, and Wales. (Probably Ireland as well.)

You may be able to understand those periods if you inquire why there were strikes in those areas in the 60 and 70s. and why the name of Thatcherism and the conservatives stinks and stank from those periods and the 80s and continues to do so. (This was a period when I had working experience, awareness of working and social conditions of those involved on both sides of the disputes.)

If you ever have the guts to visit those areas and ask the residual residents of those areas about those periods you may understand the reasoning for the strike and "workforce" disharmony, often associated with poor working and social conditions and poor management.

But because of your various fixations and even with your limited intelligences you may be unable to understand the reasons behind the “Strikes and Walk Outs.”.

I posted what I thought about the some of the actions of unions in the 60s and 70s before, and what I thought of Scargill and Thatcher and their actions in the 80s. Both the latter were as clumsy, egocentric or inept and driven by their own peculiar outdated ideologies.
The social strife they produced should have been and could have been avoided.

--=-=-=-=

I don’t have any wish to return to the conditions of those, but fear if Brexit goes ahead then the result will be higher unemployment, lower social conditions, and possible civil disharmony.

As far as JC is concerned, I would guess as he said 70% in favour of remaining in the EU and thinks the best route to that is an implosion of the Tory party, which is happening, prolongation of article 50 and a referendum which will probably support remaining in the EU.
-==-=-
So doing will be considered to be swallowing one's pride and the price for having a decent society with a friendly relationship with one's neighbours.

the following is actually george's which he posted on a different thread ..... an interesting and somewhat surprising read .... the last bit is particularly worth noting

From the 1960's

Union reform fails.

Trade unions were very much part of Britain's political and industrial life. The new Labour leader, Harold Wilson, won the general election in1964. One of his reforms was the Prices and Incomes Act. The aim was that all wage and price rises had to be approved by a National Board for Prices, but in practice the idea was unworkable.

In 1968 Labour's Employment Minister, Barbara Castle, wrote a paper called 'In Place of Strife'. She suggested ballots before strikes and a 28-day cooling off period before action was taken. Her aim was to prevent the unofficial strikes and lightning strikes that stopped production without notice. The Trades Union Congress (TUC) rejected the idea and pressured Wilson into scrapping it by threatening to withdraw the unions' financial support from Labour.

What a disaster JC is. Acted in the heat of the moment as we all may well have done, but then lied about what he did to the house. Stupid man.

O and then sent DA out in front of the cameras to defend him. She took a bullet for her man

Fred's post 11004

You wrongly assume that I have not been involved in heavy industry, or strikes or visited such areas. As a young working man I worked bl--dy hard, sometimes taking on additional evening and weekend part-time work to make ends meet. The heavy industry (skilled) job I had often left me with some week left after the money ran out.

I didn't need to have guts to visit or ask those residents, I was one.

Whilst I may be of limited intelligence I understood all to well the reasons why I voted to strike, or not.

I happen to believe that the biggest threat to employment and living standards is a Labour government, you believe what you will.

As for a referendum to support remaining in the EU, we had a referendum which decided we wanted to Leave the EU, so maybe it is YOUR intelligence level that is inadequate, as you do not seem to have grasped this fact.

Finally with regard to----So doing will be considered to be swallowing one's pride and the price for having a decent society with a friendly relationship with one's neighbours. ----I view that as running rough-shod over the democratic process that this country has adhered to for hundreds of years.

So you wouldn't stop a person drinking a poisonous liquid if he had misread the label.

Bloody daft.

The Brexit situation is in many ways analogous.

Policies are changed constantly.

Follow this government's actions.

You can pick and chose which ones you want.

If you call what May is doing by screeching her mantras constantly, ducking votes, delaying the public viewing of information to parliament democracy, good luck to you.

I value actions taken on informed opinion and advised judgement and not make-believe.

I suggest you try to understand the various motivations of those involved in the unions and strikes.

Certainly, many actions were stupid, often the result of frustration with their situation.

Could they have acted differently, yes, but often they would have been rebuffed or didn't know a better way of demonstrating discontent.

0-=-=-=-=

You decry labour.

Go back and read post WW1 period and the improvements (including NHS. Welfare services etc. and supporting lousy worn-out industries.) If they hadn't then civil conflict might have happened.

Have a look at how the Infrastructure and health services were worn out after Thatcher and improved and reformed by Blair and compatriots. (I am no lover of Blair)

Have a look at the city's response to attempts to financial reforms suggested by the labour government before the crash. (Warnings were being given years before the collapse.)

Stop being blind to things which don't suit you.

All governments make mistakes, but they should also be prepared to admit them when they are recognised.

But the bases of decision making by this government is biased by what it sees as politically advantageous to itself and not necessarily the country's.

Brexit is too important for that.

-=-=-=-

Martini.

For me, T M is a "bloody stupid" woman.

It is hardly misogynistic to recognise her sex.

Or would you prefer a "bloody stubborn woman"?

I would prefer he told the truth.

Are you a lip reader?

I would prefer less pantomime stupidity by a braying party of con artists and PM who were ducking their responsibilities and being contemptuous of parliamentary processes.

He was caught lying to the house and that is a cardinal error for a politician watch my lips.

You could be right or you could be wrong.

Either way, Stupid woman certainly came to the minds of your fellow tory supporters.

99 days to go..

Less for the 1st informed referendum.

lol , be so funny if they had a second referendum and the question was EU deal or no deal.

M, I've only seen the recording of Corby once and although it's clear he said stupid I wasn't convinced he said woman. This was before he claimed he had said people so can't say I was looking for that. I'll have to have another look today. Either way yesterday was another disaster for him.

George , well said.

More self importance rhetoric from the "Con" party https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46626967

in a way it's a silly row but in other ways not
i am sure a professional lip-reader could give a definitive answer despite the face fungus

Perhaps he nodded off and was dreaming about Allo-Allo...and then woke up...and thought chucklin' : "you stupid womaaann…".....

To be fair, I get called a stupid woman on almost daily basis. Cue Dilbert...

:o)