Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

Not another one, who is it now?

I know who it should be.

For, It and Dil.

Tic Toc.

Cyners,

I've only ever voted Conservative, but I won't be voting for them next time round. Similarly, I have both leave and remain friends who have only ever voted Conservative, and they all say the same as me.

So, who the f**k is gonna vote for them?

I really hope they split themselves up over the mess they've created - it'll be their own fault. It's time for a new centrist party to be formed, with Blair and Cameron's ethos, but without their baggage imo. The right wing extremists can form their own Monster Raving Gammon Party.

Would prefer to see a coalition government to be elected for a 5year period to attempt to clear up the mess which has been created.

That would mean the postponement of Section 50 review of relationship with the EU and move to well defined proposals in a NEW REFERENDUM.

Also, during that period there should be "crossbench" examination of the goals of government the possible aims for the "welfare states" and its responsibilities.

Also, examination of the necessary "infrastructures" of the UK and the costs and "financings" of such.

Ie. a period of standing back, reflection and LONG TERM future planning.

(Probably wishful thinking.)

-=-==-

By the way, tend to agree with JC on A Marr's program.

(Possibly too sensible and hopeful.)

-=-=-=

Also, that the Neo-cons in the tory party are exposed and sectioned off from the "tory centralists or moderates into their own party.

(Cyners, would then have a party he could vote for to represent him.)

CNG - i have no problem at all with TM, and indeed the opposite, but on a personal level, i think dominic grieve has behaved disgracefully

Seems like everyone on here has voted Conservative more than me (except Fred who can't be arsed to vote at all).

I only voted for them once and that was in 1992 because I knew it would be a Labour landslide here.

Liked their manifesto did you Hils ?

Which bit did you like Fred , the bit where like you he wouldn't answer the questions put to him ?

"Dil Send an email to Dil View Dil's profile - 13 Jan 2019 16:57 - 11448 of 11449

Seems like everyone on here has voted Conservative more than me (except Fred who can't be arsed to vote at all). "

Don't count me as voting 'Con' servative squire, I have my reputation to keep up!

cynic Send an email to cynic View cynic's profile - 13 Jan 2019 15:42 - 11447 of 11450

but on a personal level, i think dominic grieve has behaved disgracefully

Tell us what he did to you.

I won't repeat it.

8-)

Cyners,

I realise that it's Grieve you're unhappy with, but they'll still be lost Conservative votes regardless. Similarly, I would expect Labour to also lose votes because of Corbyn's (lack of) Brexit stance.

That's why I think there's an opening for a new centrist party, comprising members from both main parties. I wonder also if you might see a sitting Conservative MP cross the floor of the House over Brexit. Not to Labour necessarily, but to the Lib Dems or to sit as an independent.

Dilbert,

I didn't vote in either 2015 or in 2017, but, before that, my Conservative votes were based upon their economic policies.

Actually, I think the so-called "British democracy" has a lot of faults and weaknesses.

Some of which are being exposed at the moment.


Possibly, the present "uproar" and "upheaval" may speed up reasoned changes and the evolution of rules and "process". (Not easy with some having too many irons in the fire or holding promissory notes.)

CNG.

"I would expect Labour to also lose votes because of Corbyn's (lack of) Brexit stance."


At the moment, I think (guess) like Corbyn is doing if he made any direct statement of policy or intent about putting a motion of no-confidence in the government, or calling for a New Referendum his statements would be jumped upon by the present Conservatives and media as "crazy policies" and be a distraction from the "mess" the present "individuals" thought to be in charge of a failing government.

He is probably thinking let the T.May's ship sink and then examine the flotsam and jetsam which washes up on the shore.

He hasn't seen the books of the negotiations or the false promises made.

Why be pilloried when he doesn't have to be.

He doesn't have to start walking the tightrope yet.

( Or put the noose around his own neck.)

hilary (CNG or whatever) - it would not at all surprise me to see another hung parliament ...... for differing reasons, the voting public now regards MP's and politics in general in a similar light as 2nd-hand car salesmen in some sleazy sidestreet ..... the worrying thing is, that as the moderate masses vote in fewer numbers, so the door is left wide open for the extremists of (m)any hues

easy to become a conspiracist :-)

Fred,

I don't have any issue whatsoever with how Corbyn is playing things. There are two sides to every market - a right side, and a wrong side. When the sh!t finally looks like it's about to hit the fan, JC just needs to be sure that he's on the right side.

There will, however, be a bit of collateral damage in the shorter term, so it's important to manage the risk/reward ratio lest he gets too many splinters whilst fence sitting.

Cyners,

Referenda are, by their very nature, divisive. Therefore, there will be a period of uncertainty, and opinions will inevetibly shoot both ways, whilst a new status quo is sought, but everything will eventually return to the centre ground which is where all political battles are won. Extremism, of whatever guise, has no place in modern society.

And feel free to use whichever moniker you choose. My laptop froze completely last year after a Windows update and I temporarily lost access to a whole load of stuff. I had to get the machine back to the UK, and then get it returned, so it was simpler to just buy a new laptop and create a new £am account in the meantime.

I never realised how frightening you could be.

-=-==--=

By how many will TM proposal be rejected on Tues.

40-50?

The BBC have suggested 228, which has been latched upon by the pugnacious red tops. My personal guess is circa 150. Anything under 100, and I'm inclined to agree with Martini insofar as she'll get the deal through second time around.

Nah.