Investors' Room :: How far down will they go - MoneyAM - Free Share Prices, Stock Quotes, Charts, News, Level2

mojo47 - 16 Aug 2007 13:54

any one got a feelling in their water how far LLoyds will go looking to to buy but just dont know when they are low enough

sned - 16 Aug 2007 14:36 - 2 of 483

DYOR - you could ask some of the TA people to give you some analysis (highly doubt anyone can tell you an entry point in this market though)

seawallwalker - 16 Aug 2007 14:49 - 3 of 483

It's all guesswork, make your own mind up as to where you want to buy, I have 3.50 or much less, based on a desire rather than a fact!

halifax - 16 Aug 2007 15:09 - 4 of 483

LLoyds is afflicted by the general market panic in financial stocks globally, if interest rates rise bank dividend yields will have to rise if interest rates fall bank shares will rise. Certainly market forces in US are going to force the FED to cut interest rates otherwise the repercussions will damage the whole economy not just the housing market. The same applies in the UK, just watch the unemployment stats.

paul30661 - 16 Aug 2007 16:32 - 5 of 483

Lloyds is predominantly a UK bank - it doesn't have the direct exposure of some of the other UK banks. Therefore unless (or until) the 'credit crunch' affects the uk economy itself it is difficult to see (IMHO) a long term down on this share.
The recent increase in dividend was masterful in terms of timing, (if more by luck than judgement), in that investors have hope of a recovery.
Only RBS has similar good prospects at present, but they have more global exposure - which might be good or bad depending on your slant.
one possible downside to Lloy is that I think that they own around 6% of Northern Rock - which must be hurting a bit, but to Lloyds a 200 m investment is small fry. In fact, with NRK in its current position Lloyds could well pick them up very cheap. Barc and RBS/Natwest are too busy elsewhere, so only really the foreigners, (who probably couldn't make it stack up) and RBOS as serious competition. Lloyds access to funding would wipe out NRK's financial problems overnight, and they could then merge the C&G franchise and the NRK franchise very successfully I imagine.
Ps. If Lloyds take me up on this - will I get a fee :-)
Oh sorry, forgot the point of the thread. I am buying Lloyds at the present level which has to be right in the medium/long term - I think they're well supported in terms of dividend and will be a good recovery play when things calm down and the bargain & income hunters go shopping.

halifax - 16 Aug 2007 18:03 - 6 of 483

Shares rag today says sell LTSB, BARC and HBOS buy RBS and HSBC, what do they know?

paul30661 - 16 Aug 2007 18:06 - 7 of 483

As a former reader of Shares - I'm somewhat surprised that they remember what FTSE 100 companies look like - for 11 of the 12 months of my subscription it was no more than a pimp for penny share :-)

mojo47 - 16 Aug 2007 18:29 - 8 of 483

Thanks for all your input I will go for LLoyds and R B S at some point in the morning after the market sorts its self out

Fred1new - 16 Aug 2007 18:55 - 9 of 483

It is not how quickly the market goes down that worries me, but how slowly the B. goes up that is the problem.

If I was in cash I would hide it under the mattress.

mojo47 - 16 Aug 2007 21:15 - 10 of 483

tell me about it i have some share's that i wont live long enough to even get my money back, under the mattress isnt the best place to hide money, i had a bit left over after a good run, and then the market went mad, and i had to work away for a year so i put it in p bonds for 10 months had three half not bad wins in the first 6 months then draged it out . felt quite good about that

mojo47 - 17 Aug 2007 17:43 - 11 of 483

got in and got out very nice thank you

queen1 - 22 Feb 2008 09:30 - 12 of 483

A good set of results bearing in mind the current situation:

Lloyds TSB reported a 6 pct increase in its full-year profit, with strong growth in its core UK retail banking business offsetting a downturn at the wholesale banking division as the credit crunch took its toll. Lloyds said its underlying pretax profit came in at 3.91 bln stg, up from 3.71 bln stg the previous year, and slightly ahead of the 3.89 bln stg pencilled in by analysts, according to a consensus forecast supplied by the company.

The improvement partly reflected strong growth at the core UK retail bank, which attracted 1 mln new account holders, consolidating its position as the UK's biggest current account provider, and boosting profit by 17 pct to 1.80 bln stg. That outweighed a downturn at the wholesale and international division, where profits fell 12 pct on the year to 1.44 bln stg largely as a result of a 280 mln stg asset write-down in the wake of the credit crunch.

The 280 mln stg charge for 2007 as a whole compares with the previously-disclosed 200 mln stg write-down for the first ten months of the year.

Lloyds lacks a strong presence in investment banking, and is therefore less exposed to the credit crunch than rivals Barclays and Royal Bank of Scotland, which have so far reported write-downs of 1.6 and 1.2 bln stg respectively.

The results also included information on a 5% increase in the final dividend to 24.7 pence, taking the total payout for the year to 35.9 pence, also up 5%.

Lloyds said it also benefited from tight cost controls, with operating expenses rising just 1 pct to 5.491 bln stg, while total income rose 5 pct to 11.206 bln stg.

Lloyds added that it remains confident of its future prospects, despite signs of a global economic slowdown and recent financial market turmoil. 'Despite these challenges, we are well positioned to deliver further growth and to take advantage of the opportunities that the current environment offers,' the group said in a statement.

tipton11 - 22 Feb 2008 18:09 - 13 of 483

Even at 462 I make the yield 7.7% why worry about Rock?

hlyeo98 - 06 Mar 2008 16:00 - 14 of 483

Lloyds TSB is too cheap now...413p...it is a strong BUY.

halifax - 06 Mar 2008 16:12 - 15 of 483

Tell the shorters, banks are a one way street at the moment.

hlyeo98 - 06 Mar 2008 16:22 - 16 of 483

It is an excellent chance to top up at 413p.

tipton11 - 06 Mar 2008 20:21 - 17 of 483

I'm looking for sub 400 but it is day after day at the moment .... very hard to watch

hlyeo98 - 06 Mar 2008 20:54 - 18 of 483

Lloyds TSB is the bank to buy.

hlyeo98 - 07 Mar 2008 10:26 - 19 of 483

LLOY has already rise to 418p now.
BARC is the next excellent buy at 418p. It's too cheap now.

Read the article in Daily Express on 5/3/2008 on LLOY and BARC.

hlyeo98 - 07 Mar 2008 15:55 - 20 of 483

Tipton, I told you to buy yesterday, did u take my advice?

steve52 - 21 May 2008 12:14 - 21 of 483

Had to buy some at 396p, yield 9% ! could not resist.

mojo47 - 21 May 2008 19:59 - 22 of 483

I am going to hang on for a day or two i just think they may go down a bit looking around 370
anyway got a buy in for 370 so we will wait and see

spitfire43 - 21 May 2008 23:17 - 23 of 483

I brought some in February @ 395, have a target of 355 for next purchase, wasn't sure if I would have a chance a few days back. But looking likely now if we have another sell off.

queen1 - 21 May 2008 23:50 - 24 of 483

Interesting to see new mortgage deals (with airmiles) advertised by Lloyds on TV tonight.

spitfire43 - 22 May 2008 13:58 - 25 of 483

Yes I saw the advert, I guess it's a novelty and shouldn't cost them too much.

I wonder if we may have a new trading range for lloy soon, between 350 to 400, if this is to be the case I would like to buy @ 355 and then short the same amount from 400 after. If sp keeps rising to 445 I could close my short for a loss, but cover the loss by selling the shares I brought at 355.

If price hit 400 then fell back towards 355 then I would take my profit from my short, and wait for the same situation again, or set another buying price further down.

My thinking is that I want to buy lloy and others over the long term, so I might as well try the above plan, the most I could lose is the dealing costs.

queen1 - 23 May 2008 12:42 - 26 of 483

That sounds like a pretty sound strategy spitfire43 assuming nothing pushes the shares violently north or south at the wrong moment.

dealerdear - 23 May 2008 12:53 - 27 of 483

Not sure about that spitfire.

Sounds intelligent but ...

If sp goes higher than 400p then one trade covers another and if sp drops back to 350 likewise, where your short gain is matched by you losing your long profit.

Hence what is the point? Why not just take your profit at 400p and wait to get back in again if sp drops to 350p.

Answers on a postcard to ...

spitfire43 - 23 May 2008 16:42 - 28 of 483

I know where you are coming from dd, but if I had placed the above when I brought at 395 in February I could have shorted twice with a top price of 480 and my purchase protecting the short position. Because I'm in the process of building a stake in lloy, and expecting weakness in the sector for the next 12 month's or longer, the main risk would be if the sp headed north without much of a pullback and I missed the opportunity to buy longterm, and had to sell the share to cover the short.

But IF........... the plan worked, I could have my cake and eat it.

Guscavalier - 05 Jun 2008 16:23 - 29 of 483

LONDON (Thomson Financial) - UK bank Lloyds TSB Group Plc. said it has signed up to a three-year agreement under which it will offer new mortgages to selected Northern Rock customers nearing the end of their fixed-rate deals.

Under the agreement, eligible Northern Rock customers will be offered a Lloyds loan and those who accept will be exempt from the lender's standard application fee.

Lloyds will apply its usual lending criteria, which include a maximum loan-to-value ratio of 80 percent, a spokesman for the bank said. Lloyds will also pay a commission fee to Northern Rock for each successful mortgage application.

Northern Rock, which has announced plans to shed one-third of its 6,000-strong workforce under a government-sponsored turnaround plan, said the agreement would safeguard about 100 jobs.

'We expect the new service to require around 100 existing staff who may otherwise have been at risk of redundancy,' the bank said.

Lloyds, the United Kingdom's fourth-biggest bank by market value, said the agreement would 'accelerate new business growth in a low risk manner while assisting Northern Rock towards its goal of reducing the size of its balance sheet'.

Northern Rock, once the UK's eighth-biggest bank, was nationalised earlier this year after the global credit crunch forced it to seek emergency funding from the Bank of England.

Northern Rock aims to repay a 25 billion pound Bank of England loan and reduce its portfolio of mortgage loans by half by 2011.

Lloyds shares were down 0.3 percent at 389-1/4 pence by 9:55 a.m., while the FTSE 100 share index was up 0.3 percent at 5989.2 points.

Gus comment: Looks like LLoyds will be able to cherry pick some of the more lower risk loans. I expect an adjustment to values will be made to take into account the weaker housing market when making assessments. Presumably NRK will be stuck with the no performing/riskier loans at the end of the day.

hangon - 06 Jun 2008 13:54 - 30 of 483

I agree, it looks a good deal for LLOY and part of the desire for NRK to get out of Mortgages. Just hope it's not one nice one, two, get a bad one three.

Does anyone think LLOY will have a rights issue, to bolster their coffers?

That is the only concern I have.
My holding is in loss presently.

dealerdear - 06 Jun 2008 13:57 - 31 of 483

I listen intently hangon and haven't heard any anayst say they might.

Barclays is the one being mentioned as a possibility.

spitfire43 - 15 Jun 2008 17:13 - 32 of 483

Interesting article below from todays Telegraph, this is what I wanted to see with Lloyds.

See below.........

Lloyds TSB is considering launching a takeover bid for one of Germany's largest retail banks, underlining the British lender's relative immunity to the writedowns that have scarred the balance sheets of its international rivals.

Lloyds TSB is in the early stages of considering a move for Deutsche Postbank, valued by the German stock market at about 10bn (8bn), which has been earmarked for disposal.

If it decides to proceed with an offer, on which it would be advised by Lehman Brothers, Lloyds TSB would be embarking upon a significant change in strategy.

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The bank's focus has been on the domestic British retail and commercial banking sectors, but its limited exposure to the sub-prime mortgage and credit crises has, in the view of Lloyds TSB executives, given it a mandate to seek out international acquisitions.

More on banking
Deutsche Postbank, which is majority-owned by the logistics group Deutsche Post, has a wholly or partially owned network of nearly 11,000 branches. Other groups, including Germany's Allianz and Commerzbank, and Spain's Grupo Santander, which owns Abbey in Britain, are also examining offers.

Lloyds TSB declined to comment on its interest in Deutsche Postbank, but people close to the British group said Sir Victor Blank, its chairman, and Eric Daniels, its chief executive, are keen to look at a series of merger and takeover opportunities in continental Europe.

Bidders are also circling Citigroup's German retail banking operations, valued at about 5bn. Barclays is understood to have come close to lodging an offer for the division, but decided against this before initial bids were submitted, said sources close to the bank.

Guscavalier - 15 Jun 2008 20:42 - 33 of 483

certainly good news from the point of view that lloy is looking to grow in this weaker market to drive a good deal. We will have to see how things pan out but we may well see a rights issue in order to make this expansion which would be better received than one to fill black holes in balance sheets. However, should boost the sp short term.

halifax - 16 Jun 2008 08:47 - 34 of 483

If LLOY is contemplating a bid for Deutshe Postbank that would be a reversal of their strategy of recent years to dispose of international businesses in South America and New Zealnd, it seems somewhat risky to buy into Europe when the euro is riding high and we are still faced with a possible global recession.imho

Guscavalier - 16 Jun 2008 08:55 - 35 of 483

depends on what the deal will be. They dont have to buy. Lloy have consolidated well over lasted few years since they changed the management. They are a conservative lot. Best time to expand is when business is depressed as long as the price is right.

halifax - 16 Jun 2008 09:03 - 36 of 483

Best thing for LLOY to do just now is to ride out the credit crunch storm as it is still not over.imho

spitfire43 - 16 Jun 2008 09:08 - 37 of 483

As long as the business fundermentals are sound, I would be happy for lloy to raise the money via a rights issue. Unfortunately the exchange rate is against sterling in many parts of the world apart from the US, but at some point lloy may take advantage of weak banking sector in the UK, but it would have to be at a very advantageous price due to the risks to the economy.

BAYLIS - 16 Jun 2008 10:54 - 38 of 483

Chart.aspx?Provider=EODIntra&Code=LLOY&S

IS THIS THE BOTTOM.

Guscavalier - 16 Jun 2008 11:03 - 39 of 483

can not see them wanting to expand much further in UK apart from taking advantage in cherry picking NRK business and such like. They have built up a good high wealth client business but, the outlook for UK generally is not inspiring. There is not a credit crunch if the business is of good quality. Call it a credit crunch if there is little or no security but this is what all the mess is about after all. It will take some time to sort out but the good old ways of doing business will return - they have to.

Outlook not good for unemployment which will impact on credit card business. However, lloy did sell of the lower end Marbles card business a couple of years ago and probably has relatively good quality accounts. imho

Not too sure how lloy stands on the compensation front re insurance protection policies.

halifax - 16 Jun 2008 11:51 - 40 of 483

How about their exposure to the property bubble with C & G ?

spitfire43 - 16 Jun 2008 12:11 - 41 of 483

I guess that this exposure has been discounted in the sp, but it remains a concern if the UK economy performs worse than expected. I read somewhere that the C & G mortgage book has benefited from more conservative lending criteria than others, but not sure how true this is.

Don't think we are out of the woods yet, and would expect plenty more nasty news in the bank sector.

Still waiting to but lloy and rbs on weakness.

halifax - 16 Jun 2008 12:58 - 42 of 483

I agree spitfire so if you were on the LLOY board would you be contemplating a major acquisition never mind in euroland? Look what happened to the RBS sp after they bought ABN/AMRO. Does this story about Deutsche Postbank have any substance or is it just journos in search of a story?

spitfire43 - 16 Jun 2008 15:43 - 43 of 483

todays sp tells the story, the City always anticipate what will happen.

would think the board would like to buy cheap assets, but why buy now when prices could weaken further.

hangon - 17 Jun 2008 11:40 - 44 of 483

I wonder if the real story is this -
"...We were prudent during the cheap-money period . . . . and we have cash waiting to buy into a European operation..."
- This would be a good way to spread the business and make them attractive to savers/businesses who regularly visit/do business in Euroland. All I know is they have interest in Cheltenham and Gloucester (for Mortgages) . . . and Scottish Widows (for life insurance)......but am unaware of direct European operation.

I thought the name Deutsche Postbank came from LLOY - not from journos creating a story.

I just wonder if LLOY won't then use this takeover as an excuse to ask shareholders for money....ah - - - who knows?

halifax - 17 Jun 2008 11:48 - 45 of 483

hangon on read post 32 source DTel.... no comment from LLOY...... does any bank want to manage 11000 branches in Germany? Sounds like a major headache to me!

tipton11 - 17 Jun 2008 12:10 - 46 of 483

You need to be a genius to forcast the bottom but in a large scale take over a reasonably low price is surely the best to be hoped for. The finacial crisis occurred in the middle of t/over battle with Barclays and RBS had time to amend their bid which would have been common sense but Fred didn't thus saddling the shareholders with execesive debt.

Lloyds long the butt of the market have plodded on with their old fashioned banking methods, bought 2 top line coys C&G, S/Widows. decided to concentrate on retail and sell unwanted, keep faith with share holders [divs] How very old fashioned, if they win Deutcher Post what will the market make of them then

Congatulations Mr Daniels, meantime friends where can I find some lolly to buy more.

Dil - 19 Jun 2008 20:20 - 47 of 483

2 questions

Anyone think they'll have ro raise money ?

Anyone think they will cut the divi ?

If the answer to both is no then with a 10% divi these are looking as cheap as chips.

I'm currently out of them but looking to buy back in again.

spitfire43 - 19 Jun 2008 22:51 - 48 of 483

If they raise money I would think it would be to expand business in weak sector.

Divi could be cut if the UK market weakens further and house prices really start to fall, but even if they were cut 50% then 5% isn't bad.

I'm looking to make a small purchase soon, but still expect sp to fall further because of the exposure to the UK. My plan is to buy in small parcels, so that at the end of this downturn I should have a decent holding.

Godd Luck.............

partridge - 20 Jun 2008 07:56 - 49 of 483

I suspect they will not cut the divi (precedent a few years ago). Whilst they have some exposure to US related credit issues, these appear much smaller than others. UK mortgage book will suffer in present climate, but provisions made last few years should take care of that. I hold LLOY (on paper now about 15% down) but am seriously considering breaking one of my golden rules and averaging down. Will do so for certain if they hit 3. (Not sure where he got it from, but my late father once told me that rules were made for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men!)

spitfire43 - 20 Jun 2008 18:02 - 50 of 483

Hadn't heard that one before, but sounds like a very wise old saying.

I did average down today at 325, with a target just below 300 for my next purchase. The yield at 325 is 11.5%, which is not bad, but imagine what the yield would be lower down.

tipton11 - 21 Jun 2008 09:17 - 51 of 483

If they go for Deutcher Post and succeed how will the market react? or try and fail?

Joe Say - 21 Jun 2008 09:28 - 52 of 483

Absolutely astonished how LLOY has been dragged down with the other banks, and like a few posters I partially averaged down (small purchase) at 3.50 - 3.60, but am certainly going in big (for me) if it drops under 3.

Whether or not LLOY can afford to maintain the divvy (and the forecasts say they can), I would personally suggest that it is cut, both to act as a cautious signal to the market, and to save potential later embarrasment should the balance sheet need shoring. Even halving the dividend leaves a fantastic current yield which should be that much easier to grow yr-on-yr.

spitfire43 - 23 Jun 2008 12:02 - 53 of 483

See news below, the interesting part is the revised update from Panmure Gordon revising sp down to 350 from 410 but keeping the Hold rating.

Shares in Lloyds TSB Group Plc were lower midmorning following weekend press reports that the company is in talks to buy Allianz SE's Dresdner bank Unit.

At 9:28 a.m., Lloyds shares were down 6-3/4 pence at 320-3/4 pence, while the FTSE 100 was up 14.1 points at 5,634.9.

The deal may be worth about 6 billion pounds, said some reports. It may involve Lloyds swapping its Scottish Widows life-assurance business with Allianz in exchange for Dresdner's retail banking operation.

In a note, Panmure Gordon said such a deal offered few prospects for synergies and noted that talks were preliminary.

The broker has cut its target price on Lloyds to 350 pence, from 410, for reasons associated with a deteriorating UK macro outlook, rather than connected to the potential deal.

Retaining its 'hold' rating on Lloyds, Panmure said the focus was rising impairments, particularly on the 23 billion pounds of non-mortgage personal loans, noting that Lloyds has the highest market share in unsecured personal loans in the UK.

It also noted possible impairment to 20 billion pounds of property & construction loans, where it expects falling NAVs will lead to breached loan covenants putting pressure on developers and 30 billion pounds of loans to non-bank financials and others, and said it also expects impairments will rise on the 103 billion pounds mortgage book.

halifax - 23 Jun 2008 12:28 - 54 of 483

Panmure seem to have failed to realise that impairment or bad debt provisions are quite normal in the banking business, but then they are stockbrokers what do they know about banking. I am amazed at the way the stockmarket reacts to such guesstimates and ill informed opinion.

brianboru - 23 Jun 2008 12:31 - 55 of 483

...from the very bearish Sandy Chen of Panmure
NHWe are cutting our forecasts and price targets to reflect the rapidly
deteriorating UK macro outlook. Talk of a German acquisition is preliminary,
with few prospects for synergies in our view.

We have revised our forecasts and price targets on LLOY to reflect the rapidly
deteriorating UK macro outlook.

NHThe focus, of course, is rising impairments, particularly on the 23bn of non-mortgage personal loans (LLOY has the highest market share in unsecured personal loans in the UK), the 20bn in property & construction loans (where
we expect falling NAVs will lead to breached loan covenants putting pressure on
developers) and the 30bn of loans to non-bank financials and others.

We also expect impairments will rise on the 103bn mortgage book.
None of the above is specific to LLOY; it is simply a reflection of the deteriorating UK macro trends. The last time that LLOY went through something like this, provisioning charges per RWA were 159bp in 1990, 252bp in 1991, 195bp in 1992 and 133bp in 1993; this time, we expect impairment charges per RWA will rise from 111bp in 2007 to 135bp in 2008 and 185bp in 2009.

NHHigher impairment charges are the main driver for our forecast downgrades. We cut our 2008 EPS from 46.7p to 41.7p, and our 2009 EPS from 49.1p to 32.6p. We have kept our assumption for dividends flat at 35.9p for now, but we note that with many of
LLOY.s peers having declared scrip interim dividends, we think that LLOY.s could cut its cash dividend by circa 30% and still look attractive as a (cash) dividend play.

We now expect that ROIC will fall from 13.2% in 2007 to 10.2% in 2008 and 8.5% in 2009.

PMi didnt know that -- largest unsecured lending book in UK
PMBit scary
NH
Our fundamental valuation models for banks are driven by the long-term prospects for
value-added margins. Despite the falls in ROIC, we still expect that LLOY.s ROICs will remain above its WACCs . i.e. we still expect that LLOY will create value over the next few years, something we do not expect for most of its peers. We do cut our share price target from 410p to 350p as a reflection of the lower value-added margins, but this still merits a Hold recommendation.

hangon - 27 Jun 2008 16:08 - 56 of 483

The ferocity of the recent fall (2008), shows that the Market is in Sell-mode - there being only falling, rather than a flattening-out ( of the sp grasph), as fears gradually subside. . . . . That's what we expect to see...isn't it?

LLOY,=a minute rise today, but I'm guessing we could see lower - HBOS is now lower than their Rights (DYOR), on "dividend reasons"; but my guess is it's foilks selling, expecting they can repurchase even lower.
Whowever said things were OK - no-one - so we are still in "falling prices".....that's likley to affect good and bad. Banks aren't top of our list of Best Buys, either.

hlyeo98 - 01 Jul 2008 13:52 - 57 of 483

High Street bank Lloyds TSB dishes out debit cards to children as young as 11

A High Street bank is giving children debit cards that could let them buy cigarettes, alcohol and porn videos over the internet.

Lloyds TSB is mailing the cards direct to children as young as 11 without telling their parents.

One 15-year-old boy used his to buy cheap cigarettes, Viagra and a fake adult ID online.

The father of the 15-year-old, who asked not to be named, believes Lloyds TSB is promoting illegal activity.

He said: 'I pointed out to them that by enabling children to purchase goods illegally over the internet, they were aiding and abetting a crime.

'Their response was that it was not down to them to monitor other people's children, and that teenagers who were brought up well would not abuse this facility.

MPs, consumer groups and parents have reacted with horror. LibDem Treasury spokesman Vince Cable said: 'It is deeply dispiriting. This is clearly motivated by short-term greed.'

In the past, children aged 11 to 15 who hold current accounts were restricted to debit cards that could be used only in cash machines or at bank branches.

The new cards could let them spend large sums on the web, potentially emptying their accounts, without their parents' knowledge.

queen1 - 01 Jul 2008 14:11 - 58 of 483

Nice graph 98, really useful. Not.

Falcothou - 01 Jul 2008 16:19 - 59 of 483

Hyleo, it is no different to Pharmaceutical companies that have saturated adult markets for their drugs attempt to target kids irrespective of whether the drugs are appropriate for the different physiology e.g. Seroxat with its high incidence of suicide... profits before ethics

hangon - 03 Jul 2008 17:05 - 60 of 483

Some employee thought up this junior-wheeze, without thinking it through...and it seemed such a good idea the upper Execs nodded between lunches.

Of course it is wrong, far better to use the cards to teach children how to manage their money - perhaps use it to play a video-interactive at the Branch....would be better than that darn horse running about....whatever happened to the Scottish Widow? - get em orf, luv....ah well, to dream, maybe sleep.

halifax - 03 Jul 2008 17:37 - 61 of 483

Amanda, last time I saw her she was trying to flog spanish property!

hangon - 15 Jul 2008 16:47 - 62 of 483

How far will they go?

Look at the sp graph and it's pointing towards 2.50 with the possibility of a leveling out, or rebound perhaps.

I've bought a few at 3.09 which looks like 11% yield.... and have lost about 13% by the price quoted today.....2.73....oh dear.

So, I'm waiting before buying any more.
To get 20% yeild we need sp =1.83, which is looking somewhat unlikely as this would be a "magic number" and folks would become greedy well-before 2 was breached. . . . but DON'T bet on it . . . this Market has plenty of time to run.

Anyone guess what will be the stock-market tipping-point? I used to think it would be US-President, that's this year...or smell of London Olympics, after the bad-building has been rectified etc. maybe 2010.
But why?

jkd - 15 Jul 2008 18:14 - 63 of 483

h
buy for the divi yield
thats very sensible.
divi keeps us buying, or at the very least from not selling,
until?
if price gets to your 1.83 to yield 20 %, then as you say thats unlikely at this divi.
so what gives first? price or divi? .
or both?
even 11% looks too good.
if its too good to be true it usually is.
been so with this share for a long time.
now we know why.
good luck.
regards
jkd

mojo47 - 15 Jul 2008 20:49 - 64 of 483

what date is the divi due what date do you have to hold them on and whats the the latest date you can you sell them thanks

jkd - 15 Jul 2008 21:08 - 65 of 483

m47
i dont hold these,
but i am sure hangon will be able to give you relevent details.
cue.... hangon.
thanks and regards
jkd

maggiebt4 - 15 Jul 2008 21:43 - 66 of 483

lloy interim x-divi due Aug 8. @ 11.2p . Buy anytime before 8 Aug sell anytime after 8 aug The share price usually falls after ex div day

spitfire43 - 16 Jul 2008 09:20 - 67 of 483

both rbs and lloy approaching my next entry price, what to do, decisions decisions, well I certainly won't buy both at this time. So will sick with lloy if they touch 255, and sit back and await the divi.

Dil - 16 Jul 2008 09:22 - 68 of 483

Why don't you buy them at 255p on the way up rather than on the way down ?

spitfire43 - 16 Jul 2008 12:39 - 69 of 483

A very good question, I guess it could be difficult to know when we are going back up, rather than just a bear market rally. And I may find it hard psychlogically to put into practice, but you make a good point.

I haven't brought in just yet, but have left a cheeky buy order for the day at 148p, you never know in these markets.

pericles - 16 Jul 2008 14:43 - 70 of 483

Spitfire43 I have always thought a high yeild, anything in the teens for instance, was a market pointer saying this divi or the next one, is not a certainty, and there seem to be plenty of shorters are they willing to pay the div?, i think so. My family wdnt sell when lloy was at its peaks, I get no brownie points for being right but I hope lloy keep on paying!! cheers

halifax - 16 Jul 2008 14:55 - 71 of 483

Not long to wait for LLOY interim results will be announced on 30th July, shortly followed by BARC. The others excluding HSBA dont matter as they are unlikely to pay a cash interim dividend.

spitfire43 - 16 Jul 2008 16:27 - 72 of 483

At the bottom of the bear market in 1975 the average P/E was under 4 and dividend yield was over 13%. With ICI yielding 13.4%, Tarmac 17.7% and Lex Service 43.6%. Worth bearing in mind when trying to work out how low we could go.

spitfire43 - 16 Jul 2008 16:30 - 73 of 483

A big turnaround in lloy sp from over 6% down to over 5% up, looks like some bargain hunting.

Dil - 16 Jul 2008 16:37 - 74 of 483

Yeah but inflation was in double figures in the seventies too wasn't it spitfire ?

mojo47 - 16 Jul 2008 16:57 - 75 of 483

Hi ya whats the divi date for barclays Thanks magggiebt4

spitfire43 - 17 Jul 2008 08:38 - 76 of 483

It was Dil, but the real figure now would be nearer 8%.

I was a bit greedy yesterday with 248p which the sp didn't reach, never mind. Allways next time.

spitfire43 - 30 Jul 2008 11:42 - 77 of 483

Market doesn't seem too inspired by results with sp down 13p tp 307p at the moment. I was surprised that the divi was increased by 2%, a statement of confidence perhaps.

You never know I may still get my 248p purchase price on a bad day in the markets, especially when other banks may report much worse than lloy.

With writedowns of 585m the profits came in at 599m, about 200m under predictions, but I would hope this is lloy just being very prudent.

canada1 - 31 Jul 2008 14:07 - 78 of 483

I've got my Lloyds shares in their dividend re-investment scheme, if everyone has them in that scheme, Lloyds aren't rearly paying anything out.

hangon - 11 Aug 2008 13:58 - 79 of 483

spitfiore43 - check, but I think it's the interim div that's increased, and that is often smaller anyway. However, I agree it looks OK.
+yr purchase price looks v.attractive.......remind me when [LLOY] gets there(!).

SP recovered somewhat now, about 325 so anyone buying at their Low has done well enough.

Reinvestment plans (DRIP) are convenient, but watch that the sp always rises when the Divi-shares are created - the MM's know X-Millions will be needed, so the price rises - hence you don't get all of yr dividend...the MM get some too!
For this reason, I like Cash.

The higher estimates were from early-day projections.....it's good they have managed to maintain their Dividend - the cash is needed by Pension Funds etc,

Falcothou - 17 Sep 2008 09:35 - 80 of 483

Lloyds merging with hbos is a bit like Prince William marrying Britney Spears

spitfire43 - 17 Sep 2008 09:44 - 81 of 483

And just as undeserable, I had just placed a buy order for lloy at 260, I may remove this for now.

Can't see why lloy would wan't to increase there exposure to the UK economy at this time. There must be some juicy incentives from The Bank of England/ Government.

Guscavalier - 17 Sep 2008 10:43 - 82 of 483

Its a buyers market spitfire43 and depends whether the price is right. Subject to price the deal may also turn out to be all share. Government will not want egg on their face again. However, this is mere speculation and things may not be as bad as painted in some of the press. I hold lloy which have one of the better managements.

Falcothou - 17 Sep 2008 11:00 - 83 of 483

Arse sold out at 304 and they have shot up to 318 1 minute later!

Guscavalier - 17 Sep 2008 13:20 - 84 of 483

I am not surprised the market likes it. Lloyds could do a good deal here. The Northern Rock experience obviously put a squib up the Governments backside. Hope they can stop Brown from poking his nose in.

spitfire43 - 17 Sep 2008 13:45 - 85 of 483

I'm sure that if lloy drive a hard deal, it will be a good profitable fit for the future, with plenty of cost savings where they overlap.

I would expect a dividend cut though at some time, as this would provide a very good excuse to cut. And it has been the dividend that had enticed me to buy, maybe I would just have to be content with long term growth.

I can't imagine this deal not being done now, can you imagine what would happen if lloy walked away. I wouldn't like to guess at the fallout.

Guscavalier - 17 Sep 2008 14:10 - 86 of 483

Agree with you spitfire43 as deal would give good excuse to rebase the dividend but, that could prove worthwhile over the longer term. lloy are in a strong bargaining position and Brown would have kittens if they walked away. Lloy know the government are on the back foot. Amazing how times have changed when one considers that the Abbey/ LLoyds tie up was turned down by the same government in 2001.

Guscavalier - 17 Sep 2008 22:16 - 87 of 483

looks to be 232p all share deal. Official announcement tomorrow.

spitfire43 - 17 Sep 2008 22:33 - 88 of 483

As I have no idea what this will do to lloy sp, I have cancelled my buy order at 260p and await developments.

HBOS have over 7.0bn in ALT-A mortgages, I hope lloy have received some guarantees from the Government.

Guscavalier - 18 Sep 2008 11:54 - 89 of 483

Lloy have a pretty shrewd management imho and I think this could turn out to be the deal of a lifetime for the management. Unfortunately the pain is going to come with redundancies with probably some job losses at lloyds as well. Company's patience has been rewarded and has taken the opportunity of market uncertainty about HBOS liabilities. The Lloy management know the score and I suspect HBOS has been handed to them on a plate. It will take time for the market to settle with short term speculation of if and buts, but, if you are prepared to hold I think Lloyds will come out of this as one of the winners.

spitfire43 - 18 Sep 2008 14:35 - 90 of 483

I said last night that I had cancelled my buy order at 260p which I did, but I did replace it with another order at 235p. A little optomistic but you never know.
I do believe lloy have picked up a great bargain which will be a great profit driver in the future, and I would think that banks like RBS must be kicking themselves that they are unable to take advantage as well.

Im sure we will see plenty of nervous days ahead before things settle down, so should be able to take advantage, and carefully build a worthwhile holding.

amardev - 18 Sep 2008 14:50 - 91 of 483

Hi Spitfire 43 ................

I was just thinking about you when the sp zoomed down to your original price ........ wondering what your move might be.

Best of luck
Amar

spitfire43 - 18 Sep 2008 15:30 - 92 of 483

Hi amardev

It is over 10% down at the moment, I just couldn't resist it and have made a modest purchase at 251p

Could be a bouncy ride for a time, but I do like a good rollercoaster.

pericles - 18 Sep 2008 15:35 - 93 of 483

Surely the key to lloy succeeding with this is the govt guarantee of the near 200 billion shortfall that brought HBOS to its knees ,no doubt the default insurance of hbos loans is US AIG , interesting times!! I cant see that the smaller lloy cd take over hbos without the guarantee which was declined in the case of northern rock. Am I missing something here folks? Meanwhile the sp of rbs who, according to ft Lex Column today has a funding shortfall of a mere 150 + billion, is tanking, or should I say being "shredded"

dealerdear - 18 Sep 2008 15:39 - 94 of 483

Incorrect. RBS down 2% Barc 5% and LLOY 10% atm

required field - 18 Sep 2008 15:44 - 95 of 483

This could easily drop to below 2 in the next few days.....the bottom line is that investors...everybody likes the deal but now the time to pay for this huge takeover has come which is a bit like a big placing....you have to have funds; so the sp might suffer in the short term !.

Dil - 18 Sep 2008 15:48 - 96 of 483

Money ?

They are paying for it in shares not money.

spitfire43 - 18 Sep 2008 15:49 - 97 of 483

12% down now, if hedge funds have turned there attention to lloy, I wonder how low they would go before it would scupper the hbos deal.

We will never know what the Government have guaranteed to lloy, but I have always thought that there must be one.

required field - 18 Sep 2008 15:51 - 98 of 483

God....it's the same thing Dil, one way or another....I must say that funds permitting I might take the plunge and buy some if this drops below 2, but caution is required....got my fingers burned on so many stocks lately that I must proceed with caution !.

Strawbs - 18 Sep 2008 15:52 - 99 of 483

Maybe the HBOS shareholders could reject the offer and then table a bailout offer for Lloyds.... LOL.

Strawbs.

Dil - 18 Sep 2008 15:54 - 100 of 483

No its not required field ... LLOY have to stump up uck all but if it were a cash deal they or the shareholders would have to find 12 billion quid .... thats not the same at all in my books.

required field - 18 Sep 2008 15:55 - 101 of 483

You cannot have something for nothing in a capitalist society !, the sp will one way or another be diluted......from 2 shares there will only be one !.

dealerdear - 18 Sep 2008 15:56 - 102 of 483

As I said on the HBOS thread, they won't be allowed to bring LLOY down. I can see government action soon if it continues or even a suspension of the SM

Dil - 18 Sep 2008 15:57 - 103 of 483

If your short then say so required field but stop spouting crap.

How much are LLOY paying in cash and to whom ????

required field - 18 Sep 2008 16:01 - 104 of 483

No not short, not enough funds and risky.....it's a good deal but I'm just saying that Lloyds sp is probably going to tumble as now it owns HBOS's troubles !.

dealerdear - 18 Sep 2008 16:04 - 105 of 483

This is just about hedge funds and possibly other banks getting together and making money by shorting. End of story.

Mind you, if the banks all short each other and they all go bankrupt, be a bit ironic wouldn't it.

required field - 18 Sep 2008 16:10 - 106 of 483

What was I saying about the sp ! take a look now !.

required field - 18 Sep 2008 16:13 - 107 of 483

I don't know about you lot but on my screen it is all over the place...crazy !.

mitzy - 18 Sep 2008 16:14 - 108 of 483

Jesus H Corbett this is going under..

dealerdear - 18 Sep 2008 16:16 - 109 of 483

Perhaps LLOY will need to be taken over by RBS tonight.

Perhaps RBS will need to taken over by BARC tomorrow night....

Dil - 18 Sep 2008 16:22 - 110 of 483

So you agree now then rquired that LLOY aint paying a penny so glad thats cleared up :-)

As for the fall then as I'm still waiting to get back in again ... lower the better :-)

Clubman3509 - 18 Sep 2008 16:24 - 111 of 483

What about poor BB down today 18% who wants them

spitfire43 - 18 Sep 2008 16:27 - 112 of 483

I said it might be a bumpy ride, wasn't expecting a bloody earthquake.

Anyway second buy order triggered at 230p below my limit price, the question still remains, could lloy walk away from this deal.

amardev - 18 Sep 2008 16:27 - 113 of 483

Perverse init ?................. hbos reasonable ............ Lloy dives

I just popped out for a while ......... so now will purchase in the morning.

LOL
Amar

ateeq180 - 18 Sep 2008 16:31 - 114 of 483

Well i suppose we have to be prepared with the after shocks,or should i say tremors.

Clubman3509 - 18 Sep 2008 16:32 - 115 of 483

4.30 thank god for that dont think I could take much more.

amardev - 18 Sep 2008 16:38 - 116 of 483

Ateeq180............ how are you?

Are you doing anything with BDEV these days.

There was definately a trading opp today

All the best
Amar

fine one - 18 Sep 2008 16:41 - 117 of 483

DO YOU THINK THAT LLOYDS TSB HIS HELPING THE WEAK LABOUR GOVERNMENT
OUT AGAIN LIKE THEY DID ON NORTHEN ROCK WHEN THEY SIGNED UP FOR
A 3 YEAR AGREEMENT FOR SELECTED NORTHERN ROCK CUSTOMERS NEARING
THE END OF THEIR FIXED RATE DEALS.

Dil - 18 Sep 2008 16:44 - 118 of 483

Who cares ?

fine one - 18 Sep 2008 16:46 - 119 of 483

NOT ME I WATCH IT GO DOWN

ateeq180 - 18 Sep 2008 16:47 - 120 of 483

i sold bdev yesterday and bought hsbc yesterday at 154p,still in profit,but far worse than at the highs of 229p at one point.well tomorrow is another day if the same happens i will try to be out at the same price,thats only if this gets there of 229or above one hopes.
the way its gone today i hope some more positives other wise even the rest of the profit looks going under in the near future,very bumpy rides ahead me think.

robertalexander - 18 Sep 2008 16:47 - 121 of 483

fine one,

do you have to SHOUT???

mitzy - 18 Sep 2008 16:51 - 122 of 483

?????

robertalexander - 18 Sep 2008 16:52 - 123 of 483

mitzy

the use of capitals is considered shouting

and is also harder to read[well for some anyway, me included]

Alex

mitzy - 18 Sep 2008 16:54 - 124 of 483

True it is shouting.

spitfire43 - 18 Sep 2008 16:57 - 125 of 483

Thankfully trading day is over, as well as my two lloy purchases I also had a Limit order trigged on RBS right at the days low fortunately. I had been purchasing for long term, but I will do some calculations tonight for some possible short term trades.

Have never experienced madness like the last two days. I think I need to lay down.

required field - 18 Sep 2008 18:26 - 126 of 483

The shorters on banks might have had it !.....could be banning shorting on banks and insurers soon !.

required field - 18 Sep 2008 18:29 - 127 of 483

Some people will : in the last few days have lost and others made a fortune....Lloyds looks a good long term bet.....like BG., if there are any further drops : it will be on my watch list that's for sure.....!.

Stan - 18 Sep 2008 18:31 - 128 of 483

No could about it RF, they just have..until January on Banks and financials.

required field - 18 Sep 2008 18:33 - 129 of 483

Looks like the ups and downs will continue.....wish I had more time to follow this....and a bit more dosh !.

required field - 18 Sep 2008 18:39 - 130 of 483

A rise tomorrow morning on the cards ?, might depend on the Dow !.

Falcothou - 18 Sep 2008 19:12 - 131 of 483

Well I think there might be a kangaroo's tail on that chart at least I hope so. Hedge funds desperate to recoup their losses on commodities have stooped to attacking the Black Horse! Disgraceful animal cruelty the R.S.P.C.A have been informed.Well it may need some new hooves and some time at the manger but after a few sugar lumps and a good pat this animal will strike back at Hedgestock

spitfire43 - 18 Sep 2008 22:19 - 132 of 483

DOW finnished up 3.9%, so should be blue here tomorrow. I believe lloy were up to 300p in American market when converted from ADRs..

Hopefully I should have a pleasant choice to make tomorrow for a change, having brought today at 251 then 233. Either sell for quick profit, or hold for long term.

Might favour long term, and sell some RBS I brought today, if they also rally.

amardev - 19 Sep 2008 00:45 - 133 of 483

Well done Spitfire43 ........... Looks like you called it near perfect .....

while it looks like I've missed the boat.

All the best for the morrow.
Amar

required field - 19 Sep 2008 08:38 - 134 of 483

Incredible how sentiment changes !, massive increases today.....but for how long ?.

spitfire43 - 19 Sep 2008 08:44 - 135 of 483

Would have been too good to be true if I could have traded in first 10 minutes.

But surprise surprise the trading platform was down.

amardev - 19 Sep 2008 08:44 - 136 of 483

WELL DONE .......... to all those that managed to get in / out ...............
at the right price of course.

You deserve every success.
Amar

Guscavalier - 19 Sep 2008 08:56 - 137 of 483

Well things are looking better today with the following proposals improving sentiment:-

LONDON, Sept 19 (Reuters) - Euro zone government bond futures fell more than a full point on Friday in tandem with weaker Treasuries on news the U.S. government was mulling a plan to resolve the credit crisis, prompting unwinding of safe haven positions.

Short-dated debt yield ramped up by a sharp 32 basis points in a 20-basis-point flattening of the 2-10 year yield curve.

A congressional aide said U.S. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson has been touting a proposal to lawmakers that would create an entity to deal with the billions of dollars of bad debt still clogging the financial system.

Bunds also felt pressure from news European exchanges had banned short selling of financial stocks, a strategy alleged to have contributed to the wiping out of half of HBOS shares value earlier in the week before rival bank Looyds TSB stepped in to buy it.

The Financial Services Authority published a list of stocks subject to the temporary short-selling ban while the Irish Stock Exchange said it had banned short-selling of several financial institutions [ID:nWLA9900].

Euro zone bourses were expected to open more than 4 percent higher at 0700 GMT. More [ID:nLJ263546].

Bund futures opened sharply lower compared with the settlement close on Thursday.

'Apart from the short-selling rules and the Paulson credit rescue talk, today we have the triple witching effect in the U.S. with the expiry of stock futures contracts adding to the jitters,' said a trader in London. 'We expect more downside for bonds this session.'

At 0641 GMT, the December Bund future was down 104 ticks at 114.24 since the settlement close on Thursday, having opened at 114.54.

The interest rate-sensitive two-year Schatz yield was at 3.90 percent, up 30 basis points. The 10-year Bund yield was up 13 basis points at 4.15 percent.

'Essentially distressed assets would be moved to the balance sheet of a new institution, broadly speaking a dumping ground for the toxic stuff, and will mean the government taking on more of the private sectors mess-ups,' said Padhraic Garvey, a bond analyst at ING in Amsterdam.

'No doubt more pressure too on the U.S. fiscal position in the years to come, and more immediate pressure on the Fed's balance sheet. But less pressure on the US banks, at least that is the idea,' he added.

Other events markets will watch are European Central Bank Executive Board member Juergen Stark speaking at a conference in Rome at 0715 GMT and Italian industrial orders for July released at 0800 GMT. Keywords: MARKETS BONDS EURO

Guscavalier comment: Moving the "toxic waste" to a separate government entity would effectively be a bail out for know and will enable the wholesale funding market to free up, since banks will begin to trust each other again. However, the cost will probably result in weaker dollar. I expect the US money printing machines will glow red hot.

spitfire43 - 26 Sep 2008 17:52 - 138 of 483

It's interesting to note that Panmure Gordons Sandy Chen, who has been the most bearish of analyist so far, has cut is price target for lloy from 350p to 340p. But has changed is recommendation from hold to buy, saying that funding costs and synergies offer lloy a crucial advantage. And that lloy will have about one third of the retail banking market in the UK, around double that of it's nearest competitor.

It will be a bumpy ride in the short term, but I believe Lloyds will be in a very strong position once markets settle down.

Guscavalier - 26 Sep 2008 23:04 - 139 of 483

Agree, we need to let time pass as, over the short term, Lloy will be hungry for cash while things are sorted out. Can not understand why they just don't pass the dividend instead of issueing shares since everybody is diluted pro rata anyway. Although, thinking about it again there may be some who will wish to sell the additional shares to receive the cash assuming there will be a commission free service provided to do this.

mitzy - 01 Oct 2008 08:59 - 140 of 483

Time to buy ..?

Chart.aspx?Provider=EODIntra&Code=LLOY&S

nordcaperen - 01 Oct 2008 09:35 - 141 of 483

There all going to rocket tomorrow if U.S vote goes to plan tonite- even if it doesn't and that looks very unlikely it will go through eventually. So its a case of picking the best or most undervalued share - Lloyds or Hbos even Rbs, or why not punt on all three, dead certs as they say !!

dealerdear - 01 Oct 2008 09:44 - 142 of 483

anybody who says it is a dead cert on anything in the mkt is asking for one huge fall. Punt on one bank, maybe, but all three. No way!

nordcaperen - 01 Oct 2008 09:52 - 143 of 483

HBOS is my choice, but thats only at the moment, bought back in earlier so obviously would say that !!

dealerdear - 01 Oct 2008 09:54 - 144 of 483

good luck! certainly looking good atm.

I may get in but if I do I would try to take profits before close.

I have far too many dodgy companies atm if it all goes wrong!

Guscavalier - 01 Oct 2008 10:25 - 145 of 483

We still don't know the terms of the US bail out. i.e how will the various toxics be valued and what future obligations will be imposed on the banks. We are not in the Greenspan era now. Moreover, Bush seems to be trying to place more pressure on Congress by presenting proposals to the Senate first which, could backfire. I would tend to be cautious to see how things pan out at this point.

Clubman3509 - 01 Oct 2008 10:31 - 146 of 483

I have gone short on FTSE. Only trade for me today, have got my bucket under my desk. I think banks will lose their opening gain today.

spitfire43 - 01 Oct 2008 10:58 - 147 of 483

nordcaperen

I note your post saying that lloy, hbos and rbs are a dead cert, careful with rbs I have just posted what could be the reason for the weakness, incase you miss the thread I have cut and pasted my post below..............

I was thinking of buying RBS this morning, it was the only bank that hadn't gone up, it does seem very weak against the sector. But I had a nagging doubt about buying, but fortunately I remembered that Fortis which was part of the syndicate that grought ABN Ambro had just been rescued.

After checking the news releases today, I then read that the Dutch Finance Ministry are investigating Fortis, looking at risk which wasn't shown on Fortis balance sheet.

I'm not suggesting that RBS may be in the same situation, but this without doubt is what is holding the sp down. So I will sit on my hands for a while, and await a better entry time.

Clubman3509 - 01 Oct 2008 11:01 - 148 of 483

RBS now 168 Not for me

hangon - 01 Oct 2008 11:31 - 149 of 483

There is a small profit to be made in LLOY/HBOS trading - by buying HBOS instead of whatever you hold in LLOY - but the profit is small and probably not worth the effort if your LLOY holding is less than 5k (now).

From reading the Documents there is a lengthy time when trading will be difficult, (=as the Votes are counted and the Deal goes through) . . . indeed dates go out to Feb09 - so it surprises me this aspect isn't explained in simple language....

The last thing punters need is cash locked-up . . . . . oh deary.

Optimist - 01 Oct 2008 12:06 - 150 of 483

By my calculation, if you have 5K of LLoyds shares, and change into HBOS

You can sell 1975 LLOY at 253p

Buy 2380 HBOS at 144p these will be converted into 1960 LLOY if the deal goes through.

If the deal goes through you end up with the same number of LLOY shares and 1500 in cash.

It seems that many people do not believe the offer will succeed.

Guscavalier - 01 Oct 2008 12:10 - 151 of 483

The market is certainly saying that unless the terms are sweetened.

nordcaperen - 01 Oct 2008 15:35 - 152 of 483

Keeps rising like it is (HBOS) and it'll be bidding on Lloyds :-) nice day again !

mitzy - 03 Oct 2008 08:46 - 153 of 483

Shooting up now 272p .

mojo47 - 03 Oct 2008 09:19 - 154 of 483

will somone out their if they have the time please explain the diff between shorting and day trading I do a very small bit of buying and selling mainly banks and have done ok I have been away this last week . and what does it mean to the traders that buy and sell in the same day I trade through halifax

kimoldfield - 03 Oct 2008 09:27 - 155 of 483

mojo, when you short sell a stock, your broker will lend it to you. The stock will come from the brokerage's own inventory, from another one of the firm's customers, or from another brokerage firm. The shares are sold and the proceeds are credited to your account. Sooner or later you must "close" the short by buying back the same number of shares (called covering) and returning them to your broker. If the price drops, you can buy back the stock at the lower price and make a profit on the difference. If the price of the stock rises, you have to buy it back at the higher price, and you lose money.

Day trading is completely different as you will not be 'borrowing' the stock, you will own it until you sell the same day, or at a later date.

mojo47 - 03 Oct 2008 09:54 - 156 of 483

Thanks for that kimoldfield sorted out now

kimoldfield - 03 Oct 2008 10:03 - 157 of 483

Good show!

mitzy - 10 Oct 2008 09:11 - 158 of 483

187p today could they fall even more.

required field - 11 Oct 2008 13:03 - 159 of 483

I thought that this would drop below 200p....it has !....long term it will be a good buy......short term...expect nice rises and more drops....those with cash and time could mint it playing some of these banks !.

cynic - 12 Oct 2008 07:49 - 160 of 483

Britain will launch its biggest retail bank rescue on Monday when the four largest, HBOS, Royal Bank of Scotland, Lloyds TSB and Barclays, ask for a combined 35 billion pound lifeline, the Sunday Times reported.

there is a much more in the report on Reuters and it does not make comfortable reading

nkirkup - 12 Oct 2008 09:38 - 161 of 483

Buying opportunity on Monday

scotinvestor - 12 Oct 2008 15:24 - 162 of 483

what is this......a double act between cynic and kirkup on these threads

cynic - 12 Oct 2008 15:47 - 163 of 483

i posted my bit on all the bank sites as it seemed relevant to them all

scotinvestor - 12 Oct 2008 17:59 - 164 of 483

i know cynic............i just found it funny that kirkup posted his same comments immediately after yours on all the other threads

cynic - 12 Oct 2008 18:30 - 165 of 483

ah ... had not really noticed .... was busy enjoying the sunshine on the golf course and then trimming (actually hard pruning) my wisteria

required field - 12 Oct 2008 18:34 - 166 of 483

I hope you are right nkirkup because as of late I've been stuffed so much I don't need a taxidermist !.

cynic - 12 Oct 2008 18:36 - 167 of 483

i don't see any hurry to buy tomorrow, but certainly worth monitoring very closely

nkirkup - 12 Oct 2008 20:31 - 168 of 483

HBOS deal called off should benifit both parties.

scotinvestor - 12 Oct 2008 20:43 - 169 of 483

i agree.......i think it was done in haste cos of sp plummeting cos of unsubstantiated made up rumours.

wish the media would shut up.....they r making economy much worse, in fact i think they r going out of way to make everyone unemployed next year cos thats whats going to happen. when russia went to georgia that silenced things.

dealerdear - 13 Oct 2008 11:02 - 170 of 483

Starting to collapse, -11%

oilyrag - 13 Oct 2008 13:58 - 171 of 483

It would be intresting to know in advance, what level of dividend will be retained for LLOY's.

The current sp relates to an equivalent of a 25% dividend or a PE of about 4.

I am watching closley for another overdone drop as a possible re-entry point into this stock.

Good luck to all holders.

oilyrag - 13 Oct 2008 14:55 - 172 of 483

Target price on the other side is 147p.

I think it will be considerably lower.

halifax - 13 Oct 2008 17:19 - 173 of 483

Fall in LLOY sp suggests market does not like proposed HBOS takeover in front of a probable collapse in the UK housing market next year. LLOY's directors are acting like Fred Goodwin did when he outbid BARC for ABN/AMRO. If this deal goes through LLOY shareholders do not get a dividend until 2010, why should they vote for the deal? Or are they all turkeys waiting for christmas.

hangon - 13 Oct 2008 17:36 - 174 of 483

I agree halifax it is really strange, except historically they wanted to strike a deal . . . .but then the Markets saw no wrong. The fact is "now" HBOS is a poison that could invade the whole LLOY business....and I don't like it, yet we are unlikely to be able to make any change, if that's what they want.
Let's not forget that Institutions maybe want a safe haven for their HBOS-investment. Furthermore, they don't care if LLOY does fail, as long as they can get out with saved faces.
LLOYDS appear to believe it's (still) a good deal... with a little tweek to the figure!

mitzy - 14 Oct 2008 11:32 - 175 of 483

Down to 155p could go sub 150p today.

Falcothou - 14 Oct 2008 12:04 - 176 of 483

Only a matter of time until Lloyds pulls out of deal. The only benficiaries are Gordon Brown, shareholders that also hold hbod and don't want to be wiped out and members of Lloyds board looking for a peerage

cynic - 14 Oct 2008 12:08 - 177 of 483

LLOY wil def NOT pull out .... whby should they? ..... they have picked up a plum for the best part of bugger all, and further, the gov't which is (or will be shortly) a major shareholder, sponsored the whole thing

Falcothou - 14 Oct 2008 12:11 - 178 of 483

The market seems to disagree

cynic - 14 Oct 2008 12:12 - 179 of 483

the market is not, i think, saying the deal won't through, but merely that the lower LLOY falls, the less they will have to pay for HBOS .... meanwhile, buying/selling HSBC was much less of a gamble this morning!

mitzy - 14 Oct 2008 12:25 - 180 of 483

Why do people think it will go lower ie 147p or lower does not make sense to me.

Edit..Hbos now following.

halifax - 14 Oct 2008 12:31 - 181 of 483

Cynic please explain why it is a good idea to buy the largest mortgage lender by market share in front of the imminent collapse of the housing market.

cynic - 14 Oct 2008 12:45 - 182 of 483

because even if it collapses, people will still need and need to pay their mortgages and in due course, house prices will start to rise again ..... there was absolutely no way LLOY would have been permitted to buy Halifax (HBOS) in "normal" circumstances

Falcothou - 14 Oct 2008 12:53 - 183 of 483

Concerns that the merger between HBOS and Lloyds TSB may collapse are hitting the shares of the two merger partners. The government has agreed to underwrite huge share issues from both banks and at current prices looks like it will be left with huge stakes in the pair, making a full-on nationalisation a possibility.

cynic - 14 Oct 2008 13:09 - 184 of 483

why should it collapse? ..... shareholders of HBOS may well not like the price they get, but the other alternative is zilch

Falcothou - 14 Oct 2008 13:21 - 185 of 483

I think that holders that bought Lloyds for dividend and cautious management will string the board up if they go ahead.

maggiebt4 - 14 Oct 2008 13:33 - 186 of 483

Why? My understanding is there will be no dividend for any banks who have taken this deal until 2010 So they're getting no dividend anyway I agree with cynic and hold LLOY so do the govt who will want this deal to go through.

Guscavalier - 14 Oct 2008 14:12 - 187 of 483

Just had another look at the deal. The pref shares are callable after 5 years & therefore no dividend will be paid at least until then to Ordy holders. The Government agree to pay 173.3p for each Lloy share subject to existing shareholder claw back at 173.3p. If investors claw back nil, then Gov will end up with 43.5% of enlarged group. Imho the Gov probably hoped that sp would go above clawback price so its overall take up would be lower. Like other ordy holders, this is just dead money for 5 years without a dividend. After the Gov have secured an income on the prefs at 12% so they have got that in the can. Cynic, I cannot see how the fluctuation in the sps effect the price paid for HBOS, since it is an all share offer at .605 for every 1 HBOS. I wouldn't be surprised to see the sp rally to above the claw back price nearer to the time of the effective dates. Unless you feel that the ultimate plan is to nationalise this bank (which I don't), although I do not blame investors particularly with this shady lot, I think the deal has no choice but to go ahead. If the deal does not go ahead I think the Government would then make the appropriate move which would not be in shareholders interests. Once we can get a new Government the clunking fist may be removed.

maggiebt4 - 14 Oct 2008 14:21 - 188 of 483

Gus the difference between the share prices will either mean better or worse value if you buy HBOS ie 100 HBOS @ sp 80p = 80
100 HBOS = 60.5 LLOY @ sp 149=90.145

cynic - 14 Oct 2008 14:21 - 189 of 483

because i am being even more stupid than usual, though a falling sp means that the rights issue becomes ever less attractive

Guscavalier - 14 Oct 2008 14:31 - 190 of 483

absolutely, so god forbid the there would be any manipulation but, it would not surprise me to see a rally above the clawback price. Will be interesting to see how it turns out.

Guscavalier - 15 Oct 2008 08:49 - 191 of 483

LONDON (Reuters) - Some banks are urging the government to lift a ban on dividend payments imposed as part of its 37 billion pound bail-out of the crisis-hit sector, The Financial Times reported on Wednesday.

The FT gave no source for its information.

Royal Bank of Scotland, HBOS and Lloyds TSB -- the three lenders participating in the state rescue -- have all seen their share prices drop as a result of the dividend condition, the newspaper said.

All three banks are currently trading below the price at which the government has offered to buy the shares, meaning private investors are unlikely to take up the stock.

That would leave the government with the highest possible stake in each bank -- maximising the risk to taxpayers. A reinstatement of dividends could make the shares more appealing to non-government buyers.

RBS and HBOS declined to comment, while Lloyds could not be reached for comment.

dealerdear - 15 Oct 2008 09:04 - 192 of 483

when does the Gov actually purchase the shares.

Anybody know?

spitfire43 - 15 Oct 2008 18:15 - 193 of 483

I only brought lloy for a relative stable company and the dividend, I won't be taking up my new shares, and would like to see lloy walk away from this deal. If lloy did pull out and raise the money via a rights issue I would take up my full allowance, as I'm sure other private investors would.

hangon - 15 Oct 2008 19:13 - 194 of 483

It "probably" depends on your investment viewpoint ( and LLOY execs don't own the share-market).
If you bought LLOY at 4+ some while ago as a "safe-haven" and decent dividend, this fiasco is a disaster ONLY if you Sell. (er, IMHO).

If you bought recently as a speculator this is also a disaster - and many folks are bailing-out fearing ti will get worse.

Institutions are "probably" bailing-out as they need a cash-stock for their payments ( eg Pensions).
So they are looking elsewhere. Meanwhile the Gov stance on the payment of dividends is upsetting LLOY ( and others) as they like the Exec-lunches given by the pension industry - I'm guessing.
I suspect there will be a fudge and where any Bank is doing "better" ( not difficult, eh?) - they will be allowed to pay modest dividends, maybe 5% provided the Gov. "Preference shares" get the lion's share (no pun).

Whatever one thinks of GB - he has "...with one leap catapulted himself into the No.1 Finance World Rescuer . . . . a pretty difficult thing to do, made possibl;e only by these unusual events.

Personally, I wouldn't trust most MP's to park my car ( the clutch is a bit sharp), yet of the whole of Parliament, Vince Cable(lib) and GB are the only ones with sufficient Gravitas to make anything of this mayhem. Although folk need to watch GB keeps taking the right medicine.

The US was the root cause of the problem, fueled by the "free-ride" attitude of the Bush administration (can I say thet?) - and quite reasonably they hoped it woul;d keep going so they'd be re-elected. Unfortunately it fell short by six-months and they had no Plan ( remember IRAQ? No "peace-plan" was in place.).

LLOY appears to be rising, off these dire Lows - can it be that LLOY share is only worth a little more than an ice-ceream?
Dilution may be the ovbious reason and the Government "pref.shares" which are Dilution-in-waiting.

We do need International agreement, but more to the point we need International Punishment for circumventing so-called "Rules" - so we should be creating an Interpol where boundaries are non-existant. Perhaps this should extend to terrorism on an international scale, but excluding crimes that are contained in a country.

Guscavalier - 15 Oct 2008 19:14 - 195 of 483

I agree with you, they would be able to raise the additional funds from shareholders. The Gov have bungled as usual by not letting the Ordy receive a dividend. Thus, income funds have been ditching their stock. If they reduce the pref percentage and allow a dividend on the Ordy, (some of which will be held by the Gov, the claw back will increase since the sp is more likely to rise above the clawback price. It is not as if Lloy were in the weaker positions of RBS and HBOS.

mitzy - 16 Oct 2008 09:44 - 196 of 483

Bought a fw today @155p not sure if I have done the right thing but they seem cheap to me.

hangon - 16 Oct 2008 14:27 - 197 of 483

I hold a few of these and pay tax - so I'm in by choice and by force . . . . shouldn't the Taxpayer-Loan be paid back before dividends start to roll?
Surely that's only reasonable - if say they were borrowing from the Unlimited Bank of World . . .they'd be insisting that profits came to them first.

For 5-years, IMHO, the Banking Sector has been paying dividends it had no business to . . . for most of them were holding enormous losses, but they pretended these were valuable pieces of paper - I sure wish they offered to buy some of my "Nitefly" loan-stock, currently offering 40% interest after two years. Quipple-A-rated ( that's 5-A's) by the Up-Town-Girlie-Bank of Cleavage, whose Logo is a Stalion rampant, mounted by a semi naked lass with flowing skirt, in full cry, carrying aloft a flaming torch.

-Those ads I'd like to see.

LLOY at 1.55 - sounds cheap to me, but large Buyers are not convinced. They need dividends to pay their cash-calls and don't want to sell shares to raise the cash-equivalent. They may think the "preference shares" are a better yield......anyone?

ExecLine - 17 Oct 2008 15:16 - 198 of 483

If you'd like to listen to Eric Daniels, Lloyds TSB's CEO, telling interested parties what is going on, then dial

0800 032 9687

When asked for a 'Pass Code', press 49241546 and then #

One thing he mentions, is how he and his board at the bank are pushing to have the dividend payments unfrozen.

After listening to it, then I did think it was strange to read the following today:

Two 'Top Ten' Lloyds Investors shrug off dividend row

He obviously hasn't got these major investors on board with that idea then, has he?

ExecLine - 20 Oct 2008 17:19 - 199 of 483

Have I discovered a conspiracy?

'RBS': AFX News says "LONDON, Oct 20 (Reuters) - Standard Life Investments, one of the largest investors in Royal Bank of Scotland and HBOS, said on Monday it is likely to increase its stake in both banks as part of a UK government recapitalisation plan...."

And the result?

On this quite positive news, RBS are up 23.18% today to 84.5p

However, this news doesn't get a smidgin' of a mention in the HBOS News slot. Nothin'. Nil. Zilch.

And the result of that?

With no positve news to support the share price, HBOS slides 1.10p or 1.37% down to 78.9p

By the way, Lloyds TSB have agreed to buy HBOS for 0.605 x the LLOY price. Since the latter currently closed at 173.50, up 14.7p or 9.26% then this means that the agreed HBOS buying price is 173.5 x 0.605 = 104.9p or a massive 26p higher than today's HBOS closing price of 78.9p.

Hmmm? As I originally asked, 'Have I discovered some kind of a conspiracy?' then....

Q2. "Should this deal even go ahead?"

Q3. "HBOS seems so unpopular and unloved. Shouldn't it just be nationalised and the bits sold off?"

Q4. "If not Q3. above, since the value now works out at a much lower factor of 0.455 x LLOY share price, shouldn't the price for HBOS be re-negotiated once again?"

scottinvestor - 20 Oct 2008 17:58 - 200 of 483

SNP government are going to block merger unless their questions are answered satisfactorily as stated by mr.salmond yesterday live on bbc tv.
in any event, the lloyds offer is derisory and i imagine most shareholders will decline it.....also the offer makes no sense as hbos is now fully recapitalised according to fsa.
they should split up hbos back to the way it was with halifax property stuff being split up.

required field - 20 Oct 2008 18:01 - 201 of 483

Yep Scotty... more volatility to come !.

spitfire43 - 20 Oct 2008 18:40 - 202 of 483

I still can't see this deal going ahead, the market most have doubts about it, because the hbos sp has been costantly below the offer price, and the lloy sp has been punished.

Just because the lloy Chairman if a friend of Gordon Brown shouldn't be a reason to keep going ahead with this unpopular takeover,. The long term benefit to lloy is not worth the added exposure to the UK economy, lloy are the bank that should have come out of this downturn the strongest, now they run the risk of being a victim.

SHAREHOLDERS MUST VOTE THIS DEAL DOWN.

scottinvestor - 20 Oct 2008 19:55 - 203 of 483

similarly hbos should vote it down as they are now fully recapitalised.

also, lloyds seem to be struggling to even takeover hbos for a few billion.........remember that hbos were three times bigger than lloy. lloy also wrotedown a fair amount of money last week too.

so with 11.5 billion going to hbos, i cant see what benefit a couple of murray mints from lloy is going to help.

to sum up, i think everyone is against this apart from gb and lloyds heirarchy

spitfire43 - 21 Oct 2008 10:23 - 204 of 483

Check out the link below, I think they put the case against a tie up very well.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/3229169/Fives-reasons-why-Lloyds-TSB-shareholders-should-be-wary-of-a-merger-with-HBOS.html

Guscavalier - 21 Oct 2008 10:40 - 205 of 483

Amazing how the price has rallied near to the claw back price. I think this deal will still go through although Brown/Darling will have to concede on dividend payment issue and maybe the %age charge on the pref will be lowered. Gov. will be stuck with the lot otherwise and would find it hard to get shareholder agreement. Even the larger institutions would imho change their minds.

geordieguy - 21 Oct 2008 10:45 - 206 of 483

i thought gov wanted most of the shares as they will gain hugely out of this through long term.
i heard that prat darling on newsnight and he seemed adamant he wasnt changing from what was agreed.

they'll be nationalising oil and gas companies next

Guscavalier - 21 Oct 2008 16:16 - 207 of 483

I've given up trying to understand or believe anything this Gov say as no doubt many others have. Best to switch off the TV when their faces appear and take stick to what you believe having tried to gleen the facts.

geordieguy - 21 Oct 2008 16:23 - 208 of 483

i gave up about 5 years ago

take a stick to them would be a better idea

Guscavalier - 21 Oct 2008 16:32 - 209 of 483

geordieguy- it may even come to that in the end. Riots in the streets etc if things turn more ugly in the economy. They may think they are safe in their Ivory Towers but I bet a few are getting nervous. Idiotic short sighted greedy fools. Mind you the ones pulling the strings have their bolt holes ready no doubt.

Falcothou - 22 Oct 2008 08:40 - 210 of 483

Good news from Mandy, ditch HBOS
LONDON (SHARECAST) - Lord Mandelson has warned that Lloyds TSB and HBOS will not get their 17bn rescue package unless the planned merger goes ahead, increasing Government pressure on shareholders to vote in favour of the deal, writes the Telegraph.

The tie-up between Lloyds TSB and HBOS has been thrown into doubt by the steep fall in the share price of both banks this month. But Lord Mandelson, the new Secretary of State for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform, said the 5.5bn for Lloyds TSB and 11.5bn for HBOS is conditional on the deal. "The recapitalisation that we've offered is based on the merger of the two banks," he said. "Recapitalisation is predicated on the merger going ahead.

spitfire43 - 22 Oct 2008 09:20 - 211 of 483

With government pressure like that it should make shareholders more determined to vote against this deal. lloy need to announces that they are pulling out, and say they will have a rights issue to recapitalise. That way they can buy good assets on there terms, and there will be plenty of opportunities over the next 12 months.

I'm sure the market would positive with a rights issue, even in todays climate. Because unlike RBS, BB or HBOS who raised money because thay were in trouble, lloy would be raising the money to take advantage of weakness in the sector.

Fingers crossed..........

geordieguy - 22 Oct 2008 14:34 - 212 of 483

why cant they get a bond......norway got 35 billion in bonds i think.....not bad for population of 4.5 million people!

spitfire43 - 24 Oct 2008 10:19 - 213 of 483

lloy down 4.3% to 164p and hbos down 13% to 63p. The conversion price for hbos should be nearer 98p, what are the market trying to tell us?

spitfire43 - 24 Oct 2008 19:42 - 214 of 483

lloy ended down 3.6% to 165p and hbos 17% to 60p, the market is saying that lloy will either renegotiate downwards again, or call the whole thing off.

If lloy management want to survive this downturn they must call off this takeover now, that is what the market is shouting at them, and everyone else if they care to listen.

halifax - 24 Oct 2008 19:48 - 215 of 483

I agree if LLOY go ahead with this deal they will end up as a nationalised bank which is of course exactly what the labour party have been planning all along since they took Northern Rock.

spitfire43 - 29 Oct 2008 10:18 - 216 of 483

Unfortunately looking at sp movements today and yesterday, it looks like the market is accepting that the deal will go ahead. It always was really, with major institutions having shares in both hbos and lloy.

I just hope the markets can get a little carried away with the lloy sp, so I can exit at decent price.

Falcothou - 29 Oct 2008 10:40 - 217 of 483

There has been a recent Sandy Chen update on the merged entity but have lost it, looking at 2.00 in 2009 I seem to remember

spitfire43 - 29 Oct 2008 13:52 - 218 of 483

I remember Sandy Chen was positive with the takeover on 18th September and had a buy note and target price of 340p for lloy and 232p for hbos. Since then he issued a buy note and price target of 125p for hbos yesterday, but I can't find todays lloy update.

Guscavalier - 29 Oct 2008 13:53 - 219 of 483

We will have to wait before shareholders see the documentation in November but, imho we will see additional concessions otherwise the sp will not stay above the clawback price.

spitfire43 - 29 Oct 2008 13:59 - 220 of 483

The sp between the two would still indicate a rebased rate of 0.4 shares at the moment, or it could be some ground given on dividend payments. I understand now why HSBC were only willing to takeover hbos for free.

spitfire43 - 29 Oct 2008 14:06 - 221 of 483

Hve just found some of todays text from Sandy Chen, see below.

Sandy Chen, an analyst at Panmure Gordon, said, at current share prices, Lloyds would be buying about 20bn of shareholder equity for less than 5bn, resulting in 15bn of negative goodwill.

Under accounting rules, this would need to be recognised immediately on the newly created banks income statement and allow further writedowns to be taken.

In our opinion, what this would represent immediately is effectively 15bn of post-tax capacity to recognise negative fair value adjustments, said Mr Chen.

From a rough perspective, we think this negative goodwill would enable Lloyds HBOS to immediately address a substantial portion of the writedown issues in the HBOS toxic assets and mortgage portfolios, he added.

halifax - 29 Oct 2008 15:23 - 222 of 483

Mr Chen's view does not change anything the proposed merger is a bail out of HBOS by LLOY. It is quite clear that HBOS cannot survive without either LLOY taking them over or HMG will have to repeat the NRK exercise but on a vastly bigger scale which would probably be unacceptable to voters.

Mr Chen is talking about creative accounting using the Inland Revenue (us the voters) to ultimately pick up the tab.

As a LLOY shareholder I object strongly to this proposed deal, if the directors of LLOY had my and other shareholders interests at heart then they would wait for HBOS to be dismantled and then offer to buy some of the profitable parts of their business and not try to join a "drowniing man".

spitfire43 - 29 Oct 2008 17:53 - 223 of 483

100% agree Halifax, I couldn't have put it better myself.

Lloyds small shareholders are being shafted big time.

Falcothou - 29 Oct 2008 18:05 - 224 of 483

The AGM will be well worth attending for entertainment alone any idea when it is ?

spitfire43 - 29 Oct 2008 18:41 - 225 of 483

Next AGM is 8th May, but I would have thought there should be a EGM which should produce some fireworks.

halifax - 29 Oct 2008 18:44 - 226 of 483

Yes it may be a great opportunity to ask (LORD) Daniels why he is ignoring his shareholders and possibly his customers views... I think we already know the answer to that question.

Falcothou - 29 Oct 2008 20:24 - 227 of 483

I'll get some nice rotten tomatoes that the slugs didn't munch through in readiness!

cynic - 29 Oct 2008 21:46 - 228 of 483

thicko here asks, "If the t/o does not proceed, am i not correct in thinking that HBOS will be nationalised and therefore the shareholders will get zilch? ..... if that is true, then HBOS shareholders should be thankful to get anything, albeit that LLOY will have picked up a diamond for half-a-crown"

spitfire43 - 29 Oct 2008 22:02 - 229 of 483

I'm sure thats right that hbos would be nationalised if the takeover fails, because the Government would have a majority shareholding. Unless another bank wants to take them over, unlikely imo.

Guscavalier - 04 Nov 2008 11:22 - 230 of 483

seems that the boys have been able to get the sp nicely above the clawback price and the Board will be hoping for a good take up by existing investors. The less that the Gov acquires, the better from the point of view of paying off the preference earlier and thus resuming dividend payments. This will all help short term sentiment.

spitfire43 - 04 Nov 2008 11:57 - 231 of 483

Even though I would have rather have seen lloy exit this takeover, I will take up my allocation of shares at 173.3p. The more shares holders take up, the less of a holding the government will have. If anyone has doubts to how the government could dictate to the board the way they run the company, then the threat from the French government the their banks yesterday should act as a warning.

French government have said that unless the banks lend more money to business in need they will take their stake away, which is between 5 and 10%. I agree that banks need to support good business, but this could be a early indication to the direction the UK government will take.

partridge - 04 Nov 2008 12:05 - 232 of 483

It seems to me that too many businesses expect their bank to provide what in reality is equity funding (i.e. risk capital) to fund losses rather than working capital lines covered by current assets or loans for capital expenditure secured on the fixed assets acquired. Political interference will be a nightmare and likely make it worse.

hlyeo98 - 04 Nov 2008 16:12 - 233 of 483

LLOY is a BUY.

spitfire43 - 05 Nov 2008 09:24 - 234 of 483

I note that lloy have been strong this morning up to 222p at one point and hbos have been slightly negative. Both banks are showing strong buys against sells, so investors could be buying in to take advantage of the offer at 173.3p.

Or could it be a hedge fund like Paulson closing some shorts on lloy, they recently closed some from 1.76% to 1.67%. I think I read somewhere the rules changed last week from updating the market each day, but unsure of the new timescales for reporting.

I can't find any new information, maybe I dreamt it.

Anyone know.........

tipton11 - 05 Nov 2008 19:47 - 235 of 483

What puzzles me we are doing the govt a favour and they are responding by lending us money for a fixed 5 year term @ 12% in addition in their stupidy they are stopping our dividends ... the only [main] reason for many of us and pension funds to hold.

I and surely many others would be very happy to loan LLoY @12%. instead of zero in current shares .... do the govt think 12% will be easier to repay than for instance the 5% considered by the US govt a suitable rate in similar consequences.

If I had wanted this hotch pot investment there are miriad opportunties on the LSE.
... In sorrow I can only suppose that our board have had a collective ......
"Senior Moment".

bristlelad - 05 Nov 2008 21:15 - 236 of 483

ah but IN THE USA the deal I think allows the government to put A CAP ON MANAGEMENT (PAY ETC)

tipton11 - 06 Nov 2008 10:14 - 237 of 483

surely that would help us poor shareholders!

robertalexander - 19 Nov 2008 08:21 - 238 of 483

anyone know what time the vote result is expected today? is it pretty much a foregone conclusion that they will proceed with the proposed T/O of HBOS?

Alex

required field - 19 Nov 2008 08:38 - 239 of 483

134p for a Lloyds share !, who would have believed it 2 or 3 years ago ?.

spitfire43 - 19 Nov 2008 08:59 - 240 of 483

At 134p the market is saying the only way it can what it thinks of this takeover.

mitzy - 19 Nov 2008 09:25 - 241 of 483

My new target is 25p.

Falcothou - 12 Dec 2008 10:43 - 242 of 483

Back in at 129

dealerdear - 12 Dec 2008 10:49 - 243 of 483

you're brave cause I think there is a real danger that eventually the Gov will have to fully Nationalise all the banks.

I hope not but it doesn't look good.

Falcothou - 12 Dec 2008 10:59 - 244 of 483

I will have hopefully have sold out at a profit before then, limit 150 stop 95

dealerdear - 12 Dec 2008 11:02 - 245 of 483

good luck.

Falcothou - 12 Dec 2008 11:14 - 246 of 483

I'm currently short BP, BHP,TLW,WOS on balance, recently closed ftse short

dealerdear - 12 Dec 2008 11:19 - 247 of 483

TLW looks a bit dodgy over the last couple of days or maybe you have only just shorted it.

Falcothou - 12 Dec 2008 11:24 - 248 of 483

BP at 527, tlw at 600 wos 354

dealerdear - 12 Dec 2008 11:31 - 249 of 483

even if TLW rallies to around 650p I'd thought the only way from there is down.

I'm long XTA at 711. Could have banked a small profit yesterday but it looks way behind the tech levels compared to the other miners

mitzy - 17 Dec 2008 20:16 - 250 of 483

The pounds collapse will undermine banks shares.

mitzy - 18 Dec 2008 13:49 - 251 of 483

I fear they will be nationalised with all the other banks except BARC of course.

dealerdear - 18 Dec 2008 14:05 - 252 of 483

Disagree. If they Nationalise one, they'll do the lot including BARC otherwise there would be an outcry amongst shareholders. Standard Charter would probably be the exception and maybe HSBC

hangon - 14 Jan 2009 16:18 - 253 of 483

All-time low it apears to me.
---Could this be a knock due to Barclay closures?

dealerdear, thinking about yr assertion:-
- I wonder why they'd need to spend so much money - just making NRK an "easy-touch" for loans (with Gov backing, er, that's us taxpayers) - this would have the effect of forcing a lighter-touch by the others.
/
My understanding is that Banks want to repay their Gov. Loans(=Pref.shares) so they can get on with making profits for shareholders. Until the PrefShares are repaid there will be no Dividends, so the sp will drift down. I suppose the Q is what level of sp will encourage anyone to buy, knowing there are a few years for any return...(and in the meantime the sp will drift)....
/
I hold a few from about 3- bought in June08 (how daft was that???)
Arrgh!
EDIT:15Jan09 - close to 1 now. (sell=1.03) - Yikes!

mitzy - 19 Jan 2009 13:06 - 254 of 483

25p share price target now in view.

Clubman3509 - 19 Jan 2009 13:42 - 255 of 483

If this continues IMHO the UK government will nationalise all UK banks

mitzy - 19 Jan 2009 13:47 - 256 of 483

I agree except BARC and HSBC.

maggiebt4 - 19 Jan 2009 14:06 - 257 of 483

I think today saw HBOS/LLOY official merger which may have a bearing on the fall along with the all the talk of nationalisation.

hangon - 19 Jan 2009 14:32 - 258 of 483

What can I say? - this is like my doctor breaking into my bedroom and whipping off my ---s
Will Banks be having a "closing-down sale" - if so I could do with some Brass (door-handles).
I've sold my miserable holding in LLOY and RBS...both in ISA's, where I cannot make use of the LOSS!
-now that LLOY has swallowed HBOS =injection of Scottish prudence - and the Market doesn't like it.

ralff - 19 Jan 2009 14:37 - 259 of 483

what happen if banks get nationalized. Do shareholders will lose everything?

maggiebt4 - 19 Jan 2009 14:38 - 260 of 483

yes unless govt decides to compensate p1s

spitfire43 - 19 Jan 2009 14:55 - 261 of 483

Victor Blank to give interview on Sky tonight at 19:30

Lets hope he gives a good explanation of hbos liabilities, and like barc they need to bring forward the next trading statement.

Falcothou - 19 Jan 2009 14:57 - 262 of 483

Pensions funds will be completely screwed alienating most of the blue rinse/pipe and slippers brigade, not ideal for an election

dealerdear - 19 Jan 2009 15:04 - 263 of 483

Blank of course may just be .......blank

;-)

spitfire43 - 19 Jan 2009 15:09 - 264 of 483

When you think about the low level of interest paid to savers, the banks most be struggling to attract new deposits. I spoke to a friend yesterday who withdrew some savings to buy a sports car he had always wanted, I wonder how how often this being replicated. I may not do that, but I would consider buying/trading shares with mine.

spitfire43 - 19 Jan 2009 15:12 - 265 of 483

dealerdear

Unfortunately I think you may be right about blank, I still suspect a major difference of opinion between Blank and Eric Daniels over hbos takeover.

cynic - 19 Jan 2009 15:33 - 266 of 483

greed tempts me to short LLOY at +/-70p, as RBS now closed for trading at IG, but not sure there is good logic for it - shorting LLOY that is

mitzy - 19 Jan 2009 15:38 - 267 of 483

well worth it short to 25p.

tvc15 - 19 Jan 2009 15:49 - 268 of 483

got 4% from lloyds for a 6 month term deposit as my savings account was only paying 1%.

cynic - 19 Jan 2009 15:56 - 269 of 483

have taken out a relatively small short position .... may add before close

hangon - 19 Jan 2009 17:12 - 270 of 483

Looks like LLOY didn't really need HBOS - Oh deary. Just when each Bank stops lending - the daftm Execs at LLOY thiink they'll buy a Bank.

The falling sp is the Market gnashing its teeth.

I agree (posted here earlier), UK Banks will find it difficult to attract new-money at (near-) zero-interest rates.... since Interest-rates are always "slow" to improve, so most savvy-savers would be better investing in one of the Utiities, BP etc. whee there is decent yiled and at current valuation much "upside" without the spectre of Takeover....which must be on the cards for all Banks, since they'll all tumble together.

I read RNS that Dirs of RBS are taking their "incentive-scheme" shares very seriously. . . . FWIW I think all these Bank-Execs should be grateful there is no death penalty. Shouldn't all Execs cancel their perks, on the simple basis they cannot be earned in these conditions - and - any restoration only brings us back to evens.

mitzy - 20 Jan 2009 05:37 - 271 of 483

RBS worth no more than 2.5p.

spitfire43 - 20 Jan 2009 07:02 - 272 of 483

Victor Blanks performance on sky wasn't the most convincing, he seemed a little unsure of his facts, and even when pressed on hbos writedowns he stated that he believed all the write offs had been stated, but without authority. It needed Eric Daniels to be interviewed, but I guess he was to busy getting on with the job.

Guscavalier - 20 Jan 2009 09:44 - 273 of 483

I got the following impressions from the interview:-

The intention to repay the prefs this year, enabling future divs to ordy holders to be possible.

The board would resist attempts by the government to increase its stake to over 50%.

The HBOS mortgage book is of good quality with average loans at 50-60% to asset value. The problem area lies with corporate loans.

Remains convinced that the HBOS deal will prove to be a good move irrespective of the weak sp at present. He would like to be invited back in say a couple of years when things have calmed down to discuss prospects again.

Expected to save 1.5bln per annum over the next 3 years I think he said including redundancies in back office staff and IT.

Agree spitfire about his performance but, he has never been a great media speaker. He did well at Great Universal Stores (GUS) but, he was not a particularly good at media speaking. However, that never matters if the company is doing well, as was in the case of GUS.

xamaxfranco - 20 Jan 2009 10:23 - 274 of 483

After last night's performance on SKY NEWS
Blank chairman of a large group Lloyds Group.
does not inspire confidence to me.
How on earth does he become chair to a large PLC the directors must be rather wooden.

mitzy - 20 Jan 2009 10:56 - 275 of 483

I saw him too and he was unsure of some his facts he came across as another FatCat trying to justify his existance..

cynic - 20 Jan 2009 12:09 - 276 of 483

perhaps that is why sp is plummeting

hangon - 20 Jan 2009 12:25 - 277 of 483

RNS (dated 19th) tells me that Lady Blank ( yes, folks his Misses). received 1398 shares ....some waffle to do with the HBOS deal er so I read it.
Now, I read it like she has been "given" these shares - if so, WHY?
Surely with Bank-shares in the mess they are in, all execs, their wives, mistresses and asunder should cancel their goodies, slushers and so on.
Grief "Keep yr heads down, - remember the Revolution....Vive!" - - - (who's that, nursey? - - - Argh; not the comfy chair!)

I missed the Sky broadcast, but the name tells it all: Balnk by Name - - - - (etc.) - - - the HBOS t/o was a personal goal, with no regard to their shareholders - witness the take-up of new shares...eh, there's yr answer....IMHO.

SP down nearly 40% in early trading . . . . . grief. Fortunately I sold my ISA-holding yesterday at a price that I thought was Madness on Wheels, (but such was my mindset), will LLOY reach 25p . . . . . ie in time for Nationalisation....or whatever, so NO - don't invite Blank back in 2-years to tell us what a good idea the HBOS-deal was - it is evident that it is RUBBISH. My investment in LLOY has dropped something like 60% - so where was the shareholder-value? AND my Bank Deposit recives under Half the interest of a year ago....I'm battered at BOTH ends!

Not Boom and Bust, dear PM..... "Brown and Bust".

hangon - 20 Jan 2009 12:40 - 278 of 483

posted elsewhere, it occurs to me that this interview on SKY should be investigated by the FSA -
At a time when Bank- shares were falling by the day and HBOS takeover was hardly more than dry ink, any contact between the Execs of any Bank should have been Public - ie terrestrial TV....not SKY which is a restricted broadcast.

mitzy - 20 Jan 2009 12:41 - 279 of 483

Headline news on Sky right now usual rubbish.. yesterday it was RBS down 66% and now its lloyds turn and will be Barclays tomorrow.

nordcaperen - 20 Jan 2009 14:09 - 280 of 483

Looks like the Banks are doomed completely, will there ever be an end to this madness ! Even hard cash isn't worth a lot now - dropping like a stone as it has against other currencies. Blood Diamonds and Gold the things to be in methinks.

cynic - 20 Jan 2009 15:34 - 281 of 483

LLOY seems to have hit a ceiling/resistance at 50 but equally seems unwilling to fall below +/-45, at least for the moment ..... there is an apparent low of 33 but my guess is that that just reflects some of the nonsense prices one sees when the stock is suspended and in auction, as has happened several times today

hangon - 20 Jan 2009 16:14 - 282 of 483

Let's call some reality...ignore the possibilty/probability of ONE bank being Nationalised ( that's bad news Politically).
Banks are unwilling to lend at any price.
Banks are being encouraged to lend at modest-rates (a reflection of low Bank-Rate).
So where are the Bank's profits?
1) Very little short-term due to Government restrictions/preference shares and so on.
2)Not much long-term - since no-one that doesn't have to will borrow elsewhere, OR not at all.

If that's the case . . . . why buy Bank stocks as others are selling-out?
And the fall encourages further sells . . . . doing exactly what "Shorters" anticipated.

So, until Banks are able to anticipate Profits, expect more Bad . . . . and get-out before everyone else.

BARC claims their profits are hunky-dorey - - - well they may be - but so what? Will they continue to make profits - out of "thin air" ? Especially when theiy borrowed at a stonking-rate. I imagine this hasn't worked its way through, but soon BARC will be working for the Lenders and shareholders will get Zippo.

Just depends on yr viewpoint....of the next 6-months, eh?
All IMHO...DYOR.

cynic - 20 Jan 2009 16:17 - 283 of 483

have now top-sliced at 44.70 and taken a very nice profit on the lump i bought this morning.

sp is now trying hard to head lower again, so i shall sit with the balance and watch

hangon - 20 Jan 2009 16:24 - 284 of 483

You are right cynic . . how did you manage to make a profit? Hats off.
It is unbelievable that you can buy LLOY for 42pence, =the cost of a packet of bisuits.

mitzy - 20 Jan 2009 16:25 - 285 of 483

And reverse 42 and you get 24p thats my target.

cynic - 20 Jan 2009 16:31 - 286 of 483

by being short (and old, ugly, bald and bow-legged!)

maestro - 20 Jan 2009 16:34 - 287 of 483

piled in short... 20p target

spitfire43 - 20 Jan 2009 18:52 - 288 of 483

I guess at some point when small investors have sold out, and the hedge funds have driven the sp down we could see a large bounce. The prices are becoming so low that there can only be limited milage left in going short.

It looks like game over for rbs, but I can't see lloy or barc being nationalized, this wouldn't even be in the interests of aggressive hedge funds who may be happy to drive the price down.

Question is what price would they change position and buy stock on the cheap for long term, we can't be far from this position now. I noted that lloy touched 34p today with rsi at 20 and barc 75p at rsi 30.

So 20p for lloy could be a target at which point I will have a investment (gamble).

Any opinions......

mitzy - 20 Jan 2009 21:31 - 289 of 483

Great chart.

maestro - 21 Jan 2009 07:51 - 290 of 483

faster freefall than the twin towers http://www.checktheevidence.com

hlyeo98 - 21 Jan 2009 08:15 - 291 of 483

With compliments of Gordon Brown.

mitzy - 21 Jan 2009 09:40 - 292 of 483

Wont be long now.

required field - 21 Jan 2009 09:44 - 293 of 483

Never thought that we would see a drop of this magnitude !.

cynic - 21 Jan 2009 09:58 - 294 of 483

sp is all over the place ..... has been tradable as low as 34/35 today and as high as about 44

hangon - 21 Jan 2009 13:44 - 295 of 483

It is difficult to imagine the Market is so very wrong - or - are we all being hearded into the "sell" lobbby?
At these prices it looks as though there is a distinct possibility of Nationalisation, i.e. Shareholdeers wiped-out!
Yikes, that's worse than the wreckage creaked by Directors...!

+I want to know when we are going to see some collars felt.....why is there no blame being directed at Directors of Major FTSE Companies...?
EDIT - Oh and the Auditors who take huge Fees and appear to miss black-holes.

cynic - 21 Jan 2009 13:54 - 296 of 483

put another way ..... sp has recovered a bit ..... yesterday there was a distinct resistance at 45 so shall look to go short again at that level

Falcothou - 21 Jan 2009 14:10 - 297 of 483

Hangon the public either don't realise future tax implications or are too sedated on Horse tranquilizer to care! As Market ticker is fond of ranting the public need to make a stand to get banks to declare their dirty washing and the plutocrats that created the mess to fall on their swords.How people can get years inside for holding up a post office for a few hundred pounds and others paid off in millions for destroying the prospects for several generations is incredible until you assess who holds the power and where their interests lie. The Patriot's club by Christopher Reich is a good read as are some of the old Harold Robbins books if you don't get distracted by the frottage as he experienced and wrote about the depression and people's dislike of the bankers!At least there will not be a brain drain to finance for a while which may foster some innovation in industry if they don't all flee abroad to earn a more credible currency!

jackmike - 21 Jan 2009 16:01 - 298 of 483

Lloyds Group and RBS will be nationalised before the market opens on Monday -

A confidant of the Prime Minister today urged that RBS and Lloyds be fully nationalised to prevent their total collapse. John McFall, chairman of the Commons Treasury Select Committee, said the state should step in 'for the sake of financial stability'.
Mr McFall, who made his plea jointly with leading private equity chief Jon Moulton, warned that the banks would be crippled by uncertainty without 100% nationalisation.

cynic - 21 Jan 2009 16:35 - 299 of 483

if what you say is true, then i am amazed that LLOY performed as well as it did - i.e. no move overall on the day

halifax - 21 Jan 2009 16:40 - 300 of 483

Isn't it typical of "died in the wool" scottish old labour MP's to call for nationalisation, what next? Pay that we have an English Parliament soon.

chessplayer - 22 Jan 2009 07:27 - 301 of 483

Two questions
1. Does the government have enough for all this nationalization?
2. Is this the answer to the problem?

cynic - 22 Jan 2009 09:52 - 302 of 483

big squeeze this morning, possibly on back of strong bank performance in US last night and UK minister saying no need to nationalise ..... however, is this sustainable in all senses?

Strawbs - 22 Jan 2009 12:37 - 303 of 483

I doubt the government will be keen to nationalise. The balance sheets of even the smallest remaining banks is probably larger than our GDP. My guess is they'll try to let them hobble on for now. I wouldn't be surprised to see the short selling ban reintroduced. Not because it'll make any difference, but because the short sellers are an ideal scape coat. The subsequent price pop would probably also buy some more time. If confidence continues to collapse though, ultimately there could be no choice but to nationalise. I dread to think what would happen to Sterling with the banks liabilities on the governments books though. All seems very sureal....

In my opinion.

Strawbs.

halifax - 22 Jan 2009 12:55 - 304 of 483

Strawbs for government read us taxpayers.

dealerdear - 22 Jan 2009 13:11 - 305 of 483

It's very difficult to see how RBS and LLOY can survive and I say that as a shareholder in RBS. The market would then target BARC and bring them into Gov/other ownership. HSBC would then probably collapse particularly if the economy gets worse in the Far East. I could then only see Standard Charter survive. The Gov knows it is a pack of cards waiting to happen which is one reason why they don't want to start nationalising them.

Just a thought. Why can't a company be nationalised and if and when it is returned to the market, say in 2 years time, the original investors get their shares back? That way, everybody stays reasonably happy except the idiotic board who got us into this mess in the first place who presumably would be kicked-out.

hangon - 22 Jan 2009 14:35 - 306 of 483

Another RNS telling us that a Director has bought about 200-worth of shares, but you'll be glad to know that to encourage this risk, he's been given 75 "matching shares" ( Eh, whose maths is that?). . . . nice to know that Director and shareholder interests are aligned.
Grr!
LLOY is up 10% today, I wonder if that is this 200-worth Director purchase, it would be nice to think not.

cynic - 22 Jan 2009 17:13 - 307 of 483

with Dow tanking, it will be interesting to see what happens in London tomorrow morning, especially with the banks ...... my bet is that they will marked down as heavily as they were marked up this morning.

i have actually cashed in about 60% of my LLOY holding (if a short can be deemed such) for a respectable profit ..... the balance is currently showing a slightly smaller loss

cynic - 23 Jan 2009 09:59 - 308 of 483

hindsight is great, but was still better to bank some profit last night than to hang on to all ...... balance now also in profit

mitzy - 23 Jan 2009 10:07 - 309 of 483

My target is still 24p.

cynic - 23 Jan 2009 10:11 - 310 of 483

i would be very happy with that, but got too greedy when sp dropped to about 33 the other day ..... should have banked the profit then, but no matter

mitzy - 23 Jan 2009 10:13 - 311 of 483

Still you made a good profit thats the main thing.

skinny - 23 Jan 2009 10:37 - 312 of 483

In auction.

blackdown - 28 Jan 2009 12:18 - 313 of 483

Target now 124p.

cynic - 28 Jan 2009 14:00 - 314 of 483

glad i cut my losses yesterday!

halifax - 28 Jan 2009 15:46 - 315 of 483

nice profit taken today, as the gardener said to the art mistress.. nice to have a bird in the hand.

blackdown - 28 Jan 2009 16:06 - 316 of 483

more fun to have two in the bush!

cynic - 28 Jan 2009 17:55 - 317 of 483

God punished me for getting too smart by several-fold when sp was lowq/mid 30s!

Falcothou - 28 Jan 2009 18:00 - 318 of 483

Market Ticker has gone short term bullish most unusual esp, financials

jackmike - 13 Feb 2009 13:50 - 319 of 483

Here we go again falling like a stone hw low can they go this time ?

HARRYCAT - 13 Feb 2009 13:53 - 320 of 483

TRADING STATEMENT

"The Board of Lloyds Banking Group plc (the 'Group') announces an update to the trading performance of HBOS plc (HBOS) and Lloyds TSB Group (Lloyds TSB) for the year ended 31 December 2008 and on the capital position of the Group as at 31 December 2008. The figures quoted in this statement are preliminary estimates and unaudited.

Lloyds TSB traded profitably and satisfactorily in 2008 and expects to report a profit before tax from its continuing businesses, including the impact of approximately 1.3 billion from market dislocation, of some 2.4 billion. On a statutory basis, adjusting for the impact of insurance volatility of c.0.75 billion, and aggregate provisions of c.0.4 billion in respect of the Financial Services Compensation Scheme (FSCS) levy, certain historic US dollar payments and goodwill write-downs, profit before tax is expected to be in the region of 1.3 billion, before the policyholder interests volatility charge which is currently expected to be c.0.5 billion.

Since its 12 December 2008 trading update, HBOS's 2008 trading has been further impacted by increasingly difficult market conditions, an acceleration in the deterioration of credit quality and falls in estimated asset values. The Group expects HBOS to report an underlying loss before tax of some 8.5 billion for the year ended 31 December 2008. On a statutory basis, adjusting for the impact of short term fluctuations (c.0.25 billion), loss on sale of businesses (c.0.85 billion), FSCS levy (c.0.2 billion) and goodwill impairment (c.0.15 billion), the loss before tax is expected to be approximately 10 billion, before the policyholder tax charge which is currently expected to be approximately 0.9 billion. The key elements of the loss are the 4 billion impact of market dislocation and approximately 7 billion of impairments in the HBOS corporate division. The market dislocation has been driven by deterioration in asset quality and falling market valuations. The impairments are, principally as a result of applying a more conservative provisioning methodology consistent with that used by Lloyds TSB, and reflecting the acceleration in the deterioration in the economy, some 1.6 billion higher than our expectations when we issued our shareholder circular at the beginning of November last year.

The Board currently estimates that the Group's Core tier 1 capital ratio at 31 December 2008 will be within the range of 6.0 - 6.5 per cent, which is significantly in excess of its regulatory capital requirements. This reflects the unaudited financial results for both Lloyds TSB and HBOS and is adjusted for the completion of recent capital raisings, and the initial fair value analysis of the acquired assets and liabilities which includes the regulatory capital benefit of the fair valuing, on acquisition, of HBOS's own debt (the Group will provide a further update on these matters when it announces its full results on 27 February 2009). On the same proforma basis, the Group continues to expect its Tier 1 capital ratio, at 31 December 2008, to be in excess of 9 per cent."

mitzy - 13 Feb 2009 14:03 - 321 of 483

Jesus H Corbett a complete collapse of the banks...

HARRYCAT - 13 Feb 2009 14:12 - 322 of 483

No, just LLoy down 23%. Slight overstatement mitzy!

Falcothou - 13 Feb 2009 14:20 - 323 of 483

They should herd the Lloyds board over a cliff for taking on hbos

hlyeo98 - 13 Feb 2009 14:34 - 324 of 483

This is so amusing...these banks going on a roller coaster ride.

hlyeo98 - 13 Feb 2009 14:38 - 325 of 483

Gordon should execute a return of bonuses received by Andy Hornby, Tom Mckillop, James Crosby, Fred Goodwin, John Varley, Lord Stephenson, etc. to gain back confidence in the economy.

These fellas are highway bank ROBBERS.

XSTEFFX - 13 Feb 2009 14:49 - 326 of 483

BONUSES SHARES, NOT MUCH LEFT.

lesbme - 13 Feb 2009 14:49 - 327 of 483

Dick Turpin moves to the City!

partridge - 13 Feb 2009 14:54 - 328 of 483

No doubt the Lloyds crew will be having a major clearout, but it beggars belief why they ever got involved with HBOS, whose former directors appear to have acted at best recklessly and at worst criminally.

dealerdear - 13 Feb 2009 14:54 - 329 of 483

This is a slight overreaction. Hedge funds (US Paulson) taking advantage to make another few million quid. Managed to trade the FTSE by SB so made a few quid.

cynic - 13 Feb 2009 15:07 - 330 of 483

bloody hell! .... Toya just texted me about this ..... haven't been watching the banks at all of late, but may be worth seeing if fall is heaviliy overdone and/or if other banks will also crash out

mitzy - 13 Feb 2009 15:10 - 331 of 483

My target remains 25p and judging by the chart it may fall low40's.

maestro - 13 Feb 2009 15:26 - 332 of 483

pity these bankers can;t be cleansed

skinny - 13 Feb 2009 15:39 - 333 of 483

It was rather dramatic!

Chart.aspx?Provider=Intra&Code=NMX8350&S

mitzy - 13 Feb 2009 15:41 - 334 of 483

Dearie me ..!

cynic - 13 Feb 2009 16:07 - 335 of 483

now holding very steady as it has done for the last hour or so

hlyeo98 - 13 Feb 2009 16:21 - 336 of 483

It's great being a banker, you get to squander all the money and cause lots of misery eg. family losing their roofs, workers losing their jobs, people committing suicide,children become orphans and get away with it.

They certainly have no CONSCIENCE.

halifax - 13 Feb 2009 16:49 - 337 of 483

Just maybe Eric Daniels is writing down everything/clearing the decks after all it was his decision to buy HBOS perhaps with a little persuasion from Gordon.

skinny - 13 Feb 2009 17:05 - 338 of 483

That may well be the case - but what timing - Friday afternoon - the weekend press etc should be interesting!

Falcothou - 13 Feb 2009 17:09 - 339 of 483

It already is ...Victor Blank mis leading shareholders again!
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/banking_and_finance/article5726132.ece

skinny - 13 Feb 2009 17:10 - 340 of 483

And US closed on Monday.

partridge - 13 Feb 2009 17:41 - 341 of 483

Surely there must be a way to stop the boy Hornby collecting 60K per month from LLOY. I hold.

Falcothou - 13 Feb 2009 18:54 - 342 of 483

Partridge, hanging,drawing and quartering for treason would do the job with his head left on a spike on Tower bridge!

mitzy - 13 Feb 2009 19:09 - 343 of 483

Death by sex is best solution at least he will die with a smile on his face.

cynic - 13 Feb 2009 19:48 - 344 of 483

sounds like you have work to do then!

hlyeo98 - 13 Feb 2009 20:13 - 345 of 483

Cynic, do you think it's time to buy at 60p???

mitzy - 13 Feb 2009 20:56 - 346 of 483

lol..

cynic - 13 Feb 2009 21:04 - 347 of 483

no opinion for a change guys ..... not been following banks for a couple of weeks.

as for you Ms Mitzy, i think you should (not!) behave yourself!!

spitfire43 - 13 Feb 2009 21:41 - 348 of 483

Would think we could see lower next week, if panic continues, if sp hits mid 30s I will buy for short term trade. I hope Eric Daniels has cleared the deck with HBOS losses, but the update was brief, we will have to wait for the finals for more detail.

cynic - 14 Feb 2009 07:11 - 349 of 483

as a rule, falls and rises are overdone ...... whether or not one wants to try to prove the point is another matter .... anyway, a couple of days ahead to think about it

spitfire43 - 14 Feb 2009 09:48 - 350 of 483

Will have to work out my plan for next week, should be a good short term trading possibility at some point. The way the press are reporting this, I'm sure we will see lower next week. They are concentrating on Alistar Darling not ruling out nationislation for Lloyds, but he has no option but to leave all options open.

mitzy - 14 Feb 2009 10:06 - 351 of 483

I think nationalisation is the best policy here HBOS are a complete mess dragging Lloyds down with them you may not like a neo marxist State allocation of bank assets but you will have to live with it.

halifax - 14 Feb 2009 12:39 - 352 of 483

Why should Lloyds shareholders lose everything to nationalisation? Is it too late to call off the merger with HBOS, should Eric Daniels go for making the wrong decision which at this time has damaged the wealth of Lloyd's shareholders? Was he conned by Brown and Darling?

spitfire43 - 14 Feb 2009 13:28 - 353 of 483

Nationlisation would be the last thing the government would want to do, they might have to pay in more money and become the majority shareholder like RBS. But we are seeing histeria and panic starting again, Monday and Tuesday are bound to see some extreme sp movements.

halifax - 14 Feb 2009 13:57 - 354 of 483

nationalisation means political control, Brown would not be afraid to use more taxpayers money to achieve that end.

mitzy - 14 Feb 2009 15:41 - 355 of 483

Nationalisation is the best policy lloyds made a mistake of merging with a basketcase when they should have said no.

Falcothou - 14 Feb 2009 21:23 - 356 of 483

The merger was brokered by Brown and Darling to merge a well capitalised bank with a heap of dung, the Government should nationalise HBOS and leave Lloyds as it was. The vote for merger was carried out by institutional investors that wanted to save their HBOS holdings sacrificing LLoyds at the same time. The only way the merger would work was if the recession was extremely mild. If they nationalise the Lloyds Group they are effectively stealing the assets of Lloyds shareholders to make up for the massive losses of other irresponsibly run banks. The Lloyds management were complicit and will no doubt have been promised peerages etc. to do the deal. Corruption and incompetence are the main themes to this plot

mitzy - 15 Feb 2009 08:48 - 357 of 483

I'm sure they will fall tomorrow.

HBOS is losing 300m a week Lloyds need government help to survive .

cynic - 15 Feb 2009 09:27 - 358 of 483

mitzy ..... trust you had a satisfying valentine's day! .... on a less important issue, it certainly looks as though the banks are in for a torrid time again ..... whether HBOS should be the prime target or (say) RBS is another matter ..... BARC may get smacked too, through the backwash, but at the end of the day, i think their love affair with the kuwaitis(?) will be shown to have been a smart move

mitzy - 15 Feb 2009 09:32 - 359 of 483

morning cynic I reckon BARC will survive also HSBC too but the others reading from todays Papers are heading on the rocks.

cynic - 15 Feb 2009 10:14 - 360 of 483

wonder if one will be able to short or even get in quickly enough tomorrow

partridge - 15 Feb 2009 12:45 - 361 of 483

I think LLOY will recover in time, although always was a "glass half full" person. HBOS not losing 300m per week on an ongoing basis - they have taken a (hopefully!) one-off and very large hit. If Daniels and co did not use this opportunity to sweep it clean then they are even more foolish than they were in going for it in the first place. Given previous solid track record I am happy to give him the benefit of the doubt. Looking forward, there are huge cost savings to be gained at the regrettable expense of thousands of HBOS jobs and at least the problems there are reasonably identifiable and not locked in uncertain values of assets classes we lay people know little about (an attribute clearly shared by the boards of RBS and possibly BARC). The actions of previous HBOS directors defy belief. Likely to be very volatile in the short term, but longer term gut feel tells me the taxpayers might do very well out of LLOY. Always DYOR etc.

spitfire43 - 15 Feb 2009 15:30 - 362 of 483

Correct me if wrong but I'm sure a 8bn writedown was expected at HBOS, the actual figure was 10bn which is 2bn worse than anticipated. Part of this could be explained by a deeper downturn towards the end of 2008, so as long as the bod have been bold and wiped the slate clean, they shouldn't need any more more. The capital ratio's are still above the new requirements as stated in the trading update.

When this merger was announced in September I was very much against it, but took the view that Eric Daniels hadn't a history of making rash judgements, and he could see massive benefits for the future. We should know the answer within a few months, if we see no more cash requirements and no more writedowns we will have our answer. Time will tell.............

Falcothou - 15 Feb 2009 19:44 - 363 of 483

I expect it will be in and out of the auction like a yo yo best get the DMA up and running

cynic - 15 Feb 2009 19:50 - 364 of 483

dma won't help as sp has fallen off the cliff .... q i guess is whether or 60p will hold ..... prob good for fast trading but assuredly not for buying/selling without being able to watch

spitfire43 - 15 Feb 2009 21:58 - 365 of 483

PIs could find it very hard get any trades away tomorrow, expect the normal excuses like systems can't cope due unprecedented volumes etc. Good luck to all who try tomorrow, I will be sat at my screen for first hour, but then off to golf.

cynic - 16 Feb 2009 08:00 - 366 of 483

at least no frost .... had to play 1/4-final on saturday as couldn't play yesterday ..... seriously cold and frosty which made life "interesting" at best

spitfire43 - 16 Feb 2009 08:05 - 367 of 483

Well it's -6 degrees here, but not playing until 11:00 when greens are open.

cynic - 16 Feb 2009 08:22 - 368 of 483

fortunately our greens are always open unless the course pretty much closes itself - e.g. flooded greens or snow

spitfire43 - 16 Feb 2009 08:51 - 369 of 483

played a few weeks back when greens were frozen solid, not easy hitting high shot onto well protected greens.

lloy only down to 57p at the moment, at least the markets are showing some sense after the hystera in the media over the weekend. Still waiting to buy, may have to leave a buy order lower down just in case.

cynic - 16 Feb 2009 09:00 - 370 of 483

u need to learn to think - lol! .... work out where to hit your approach shot so you have an esy or at least feasible shot in .... that may mean into the bunker provided not pancake and solid

spitfire43 - 16 Feb 2009 09:20 - 371 of 483

advice taken on board, will let you know result later.

cynic - 16 Feb 2009 10:45 - 372 of 483

look forward!

spitfire43 - 16 Feb 2009 20:30 - 373 of 483

Driving excellent, fairways shots very solid, short game fantastic touch, and putted like a muppet.

cynic - 16 Feb 2009 21:12 - 374 of 483

did u win? ..... ain't no pix on the scorecard!

spitfire43 - 17 Feb 2009 09:00 - 375 of 483

all square, my excuse is that couple we played are French and they drove us to golf, I was a nervous wreck!!!!

jackmike - 17 Feb 2009 10:47 - 376 of 483

I take it with all the talk of golf you have all got out of LLOY while the going was good and are now waiting for Nationalisation. I see the Times are now calling for LLOY to be Nationalised before it destroys the rest of the banking and insurance sector.

spitfire43 - 17 Feb 2009 11:09 - 377 of 483

Not really, I'm just waiting for an obvious sign for a short term trade, extreme sentiment either way.

mitzy - 17 Feb 2009 12:51 - 378 of 483

I bet it falls to 48p again.

Chart.aspx?Provider=EODIntra&Code=LLOY&S

Falcothou - 17 Feb 2009 13:44 - 379 of 483

Lex in FT reckons that buying bank shares esp. Lloyds is not like buying an equity but like an option on whether the recession will be short or long

deanophillips - 23 Feb 2009 12:20 - 380 of 483

Has the tide turned? What is the confidence in this weeks announcement?

HARRYCAT - 23 Feb 2009 13:38 - 381 of 483

RBS figures out on thurs which will probably drag down the LLOY figures which are being released on friday, imo. However, no way of knowing if the probable bad news is already factored in the existing share price. Would not want to be holding shares in either later this week.

spitfire43 - 23 Feb 2009 13:44 - 382 of 483

Feels like a sentiment change again, with investors keen to take a long position. But the swings in sentiment are so violent at the moment, wouldn't surprise me to see it change again. Fear and greed.

mitzy - 23 Feb 2009 15:24 - 383 of 483

I'm still not convinced this rise is sustainable.

halifax - 23 Feb 2009 16:37 - 384 of 483

LLOY and RBS semi - nationalised and no dividends for the immediate future, the only bank worth buying is BARC with the likelihood of a dividend in September, HSBA has yet to come clean about its losses on sub prime lending in the US.

mitzy - 23 Feb 2009 17:38 - 385 of 483

German bank Deutche Bank have cut their rating for Lloyds to sell with a 35p share price .

I agree they are still a sell.

skinny - 27 Feb 2009 09:04 - 386 of 483

Hmmmm

Lloyds Banking CEO: Still Think HBOS Buy Was Good Deal

LONDON -(Dow Jones)- Lloyds Banking Group PLC (LYG) Chief Executive Eric Daniels said Friday he still thinks acquiring the troubled, and now loss-making, HBOS was a good idea.

"We acquired GBP18 billion tangible assets for GBP8 billion, paid in shares. We bought it in the right part of the cycle, for a good price and we will create good cost synergies," Daniels told Dow Jones Newswires in a phone interview after the group released 2008 results.

Lloyds earlier this month warned the market that HBOS' losses would be higher than previously anticipated due to sharp increases in impairments on the corporate loan portfolio.

"We believe we have our arms around the problems in the loan portfolio," Daniels said Friday.

"We went through a rigorous exercise...In the corporate area we identified GBP40 billion in high-risk loans...loans that wouldn't meet Lloyds' risk criteria and that would normally be on our watch list," Daniels said.

The loans come out of a GBP117 billion portfolio of corporate loans, and Daniels noted that most of the loans are secured, "so you can't translate those into a loss," and that the bank has initiated an action plan to work through the loans with customers.

djay - 27 Feb 2009 09:41 - 387 of 483

Does anybody think terms of insurance scheme will be worse than expected?I want to buy,but fear price could drop lower.

skinny - 27 Feb 2009 09:58 - 388 of 483

UPDATE: Lloyds Banking To Post Another Loss In 2009

(Adds details, market comment.)

By Ragnhild Kjetland
Of DOW JONES NEWSWIRES

LONDON -(Dow Jones)- Lloyds Banking Group PLC (LYG) Friday said it expects the enlarged group will post another loss in 2009 after HBOS, which it acquired in January, posted a massive loss in 2008.

Chief Financial Officer Tim Tookey said, "We currently expect retail impairment levels to rise significantly in 2009, largely reflecting the expected increase in unemployment levels in the U.K. and the impact of further house price falls."

He added that corporate impairments will remain at the high levels seen in 2008 while write-downs on credit investments and on the investment portfolio are expected to be significantly lower.

hlyeo98 - 27 Feb 2009 12:48 - 389 of 483

I don't know why shareholders should be suffering...

just freeze all of Fred Goodwin's assets and all his cronies. He's so greedy that he would not part with a penny of his pension.

Furthermore his knighthood should be returned to the Queen. Don't tell me he wouldn't part with that either!

blueface - 27 Feb 2009 12:56 - 390 of 483

gold is the only place to invest your money in in troubled times like this and it is obvious that things will progressively get alot worse in the coming months ahead and we will more likely see the banks begging the tax payer for more bail outs--i hear from some very impeccable city sources that a major footsie company is on the verge of going bankrupt and several of the banks have considerable exposure and will suffer some huge losses..my advice is to stay well clear of investing in any of these uk banks until the overerall picture becomes much more stable--gold could yet outshine and go on to 1200-1400 dollars an ounce --we shall see!

halifax - 27 Feb 2009 13:04 - 391 of 483

blueface we love your rumours pray tell us the name of the footsie company about to go bankrupt?

mitzy - 03 Mar 2009 21:42 - 392 of 483

Well I still reckon they will fall to 24p.

mitzy - 05 Mar 2009 14:43 - 393 of 483

Balerboy - 05 Mar 2009 15:03 - 394 of 483

Holding at 40p at mo, you still think as low as 24p?

hangon - 05 Mar 2009 18:13 - 395 of 483

MItzy, do you think this is a lost-cause - or just stupidity ( the HBOS merger) of the highest order, given the uncertainty of HBOS loan-book...?
I sold mine at 52p abt.

mitzy - 05 Mar 2009 18:14 - 396 of 483

I reckon 50/50 chance of hitting 24p.. yes Hangon its looking like a lost cause.

bkieser - 05 Mar 2009 23:52 - 397 of 483

Well the BBC just announced that the bailout is 250bn with a government stake at 60%.
Then they promptly updated the news to delete the 60% part!

When RBS got its bailout there was a massive rally, but I am not certain that this can happen with LLOY because everyone has now seen from the RBS experience that the rally can fizzle and then the share price can collapse.

And the news has been just terrible on all fronts since then, so I am not that confident of a rally tomorrow.

mitzy - 07 Mar 2009 08:25 - 398 of 483

On SKY now the Government to own 77% stake in Lloyds this is a disaster why did they merge with HBOS in the first place Daniels must be sacked on Monday.

SUPERJOCK2 - 08 Mar 2009 15:24 - 399 of 483

As an invester in Lloyds since 1974 I've learned to just sit and wait till all the so called experts have spoken of doom and gloom and that's the best time to invest.

I've also worked in industry and always found that the management that were called to resign by workers and unions were the investers best friend, so stick with it Mr Daniels and next time beware of labour prime-ministers offering a good deal, they will stab you in the back to take the flack off themselves.

thefall - 08 Mar 2009 21:13 - 400 of 483

So any guess as to mondays price???????

bhunt1910 - 09 Mar 2009 06:41 - 401 of 483

Well it might go up....or it could go down - but then again..........

Falcothou - 09 Mar 2009 07:23 - 402 of 483

I can see 10 today on a bear squeeze,bit like vw and Porsche!

Balerboy - 09 Mar 2009 08:33 - 403 of 483

More likely to be 10p at the mo, think we were all hoping for a bounce today.

mitzy - 09 Mar 2009 17:53 - 404 of 483

Well not a bad performance considering ot fell to a new low today.

deanophillips - 09 Mar 2009 18:18 - 405 of 483

For what it's worth I am convinced that Lloyds will be a good long term investment for those dipping their toes in at these low prices. Also IMHO I do not see the government stake going any further and in time rewards will come to those with patience. I just hope these sentiments don't come back and bite me on the bottom.

For those who lost big time because of their negligence and recent purchase I am sorry I see gain in your lossess

mitzy - 09 Mar 2009 20:21 - 406 of 483

A good performance today considering.

hangon - 09 Mar 2009 20:32 - 407 of 483

Deanphillips, many hope you're right, but there is no logic as to "when" - and - the current Gov has a hate of "shareholders" ( Witness, NRK!!!).
No-one wants a Mortgage, second Mortgage, yacht etc ( or a fast Motor ) - there are better things to do with any cash you still have. ( and prices are still likley to fall as performance improves!) . . . . so where is LLOY?
er, I sold mine at 50p - huge loss, but I feared they would disapear like NRK - and it's not so far to go . . . . . given another dormant Black hole. . . .
Good Luck....what timescale is yr best bet?

tipton11 - 10 Mar 2009 17:48 - 408 of 483

hangon a bit pessimistic perhaps ... the terms were hard, but survivable by the very competent Lloyds team who should be congratulated on the fight they put up to better the terms. My forecast 100p+ plus first div 5 - 7%

tipton

deanophillips - 10 Mar 2009 19:13 - 409 of 483

hangon, I believe you have to be looking at a 2yr period before any stability returns to the financial stocks. Then and only then do I believe that a significant return will be seen. How much that will be I would not like to guess.
Lloyds have a good business model compared to most that was destroyed by the unbelievable purchase. I honestly believe they will get through this and be stronger for it with a massive share of the market. However that's only my opinion.

drgirish - 11 Mar 2009 17:25 - 410 of 483

i think somebody is shorting Lloyds again

drgirish - 11 Mar 2009 17:31 - 411 of 483

goes up all the way on one day, comes down again on the next day. doesn't make much sense apart from shortselling, especially when RBS & Barclays are going up. HSBC has a reason to go down as they have heavily underpriced new shares.

spitfire43 - 11 Mar 2009 18:18 - 412 of 483

The problem is that the mm's and so called professionals have as much idea to the value as us, we are into the unknown now. For what it is worth I believe the board of lloy have overstated / been ultra cautious re writedowns and will now make large cost savings going forward.

Falcothou - 11 Mar 2009 19:22 - 413 of 483

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601102&sid=aqbWhdY5lwV0&refer=uk
Nice work if you can get it

deanophillips - 11 Mar 2009 22:56 - 414 of 483

He who holds all the gold makes all the rules goes the old addage. MM's hold all the gold and they seem to do whatever they want despite volume or any other factor you wish to add in. Just look at the volumes and if you can make it out you are a better person than me!

jkd - 12 Mar 2009 01:04 - 415 of 483

dp
didnt you forget or omit something in your sort of old addage of an old quote? i.e Gunga Din?
or am i being too un political in my observation? oh well. maybe you are too young?
maybe not. no offence intended to anyone, it simply is as is, an observation of an old addage.
regards
jkd

The Other Kevin - 12 Mar 2009 09:30 - 416 of 483

Sorry to be pedantic, but all adages are old.

robertalexander - 19 Mar 2009 11:49 - 417 of 483

whats going on with lloy?

spitfire43 - 19 Mar 2009 12:51 - 418 of 483

UBS yesterday had a Reiteration of there buy with 100p price target, could be others to follow. Would expect a good take up of the RI, maybe some large institutions have indicated a full take up. I don't know but thats what I would expect.

transco15 - 19 Mar 2009 18:45 - 419 of 483

Look Chap, These babies are almost worthless. They are a sort of fools gold. They have blown everything buying HBOS. Talk to anyone in the banking business and they will tell you.
The market makers will create more up days to lure in the punters but the SP should really be 10p or less .... almost worthless. 1 you must be kidding....

transco15 - 20 Mar 2009 07:35 - 420 of 483

And another thing how many "institutions" and pension funds hold Lloyds? Hardly any... no fund manager in his right mind would hold these.

Falcothou - 20 Mar 2009 08:23 - 421 of 483

At least Hornby's got the elbow, that's saved 60k/month

22198doyle - 27 Mar 2009 15:20 - 422 of 483

LLOY has been doing pretty well over the last week. Do people think it will fall again or is it onwards and upwards from now on?

transco15 - 27 Mar 2009 17:04 - 423 of 483

must top out soon - the charts show strong sell offs after strong rises. Traders share imho

maestro - 27 Mar 2009 17:57 - 424 of 483

always follows barclays...should see 100p+ next week

halifax - 09 Apr 2009 18:10 - 425 of 483

Are LLOY going to have a rights issue?

Steve Zodiac - 09 Apr 2009 18:58 - 426 of 483

I spoke to Lloyds share dealing today, I was advised that details of rights issue will be posted end of April.

partridge - 17 Apr 2009 12:33 - 427 of 483

Looking like they will have no difficulty raising the 4bn to pay off the government pref shares. Not even out of the question that the new B shares might be compulsorily converted to ordinaries in the next few months if current trend continues.

robertalexander - 17 Apr 2009 12:42 - 428 of 483

will the rights issue cause the SP to drop for a short while? want to top up but if the SP drops due to dilution then will wait. [only ask cause dont know how the diff type of shares A/B will affect dilution]

halifax - 17 Apr 2009 15:29 - 429 of 483

can the terms of the rights issue be changed in light of the improvement in LLOY's sp?

partridge - 17 Apr 2009 16:10 - 430 of 483

I would think it highly unlikely. SP will have to take account of the dilution when the new offer goes ahead - may even take up my own allotment!

halifax - 17 Apr 2009 16:16 - 431 of 483

partridge there would be less dilution if the rights price was raised nearer to the sp.

partridge - 17 Apr 2009 17:23 - 432 of 483

But you would end up with less shares Halifax, assuming they did not want to raise any extra cash. Guess there is an element of swings and roundabouts.

halifax - 17 Apr 2009 17:38 - 433 of 483

partridge less shares means less dilution and the ex rights sp would be higher. If you want more shares buy them in the market.

Girdhar - 20 Apr 2009 17:01 - 434 of 483

is rbs going cheap @32.3p

PCM - 20 Apr 2009 17:27 - 435 of 483

Interesting discussion. I sold out of LLOY a while ago and haven't had the heart, or maybe the balls, to buy back in. There are a few banking sector articles on another site I go to which are worth checking out. Plus some videos and a free secure email system and instant chat room. You need to register, takes 30 secs. It's for traders and economists but they let me in because the site is brand new I think. http://www.tradinghelpdesk.com

Good luck on LLOY.

Gausie - 20 Apr 2009 19:15 - 436 of 483

Hey PCM - other websites usually pay to advertise here rather than just spam the threads. I guess your new dotcom business must be underfunded?

hangon - 20 May 2009 17:44 - 437 of 483

LLOY - down nearly 30% on news of a 38p cheapo-placing . . . Oh deary. Expect the sp to fall to this level as punters realise the recent rise was a rare tide -

These Management jokers have managed to scupper the good-ship LLOY in a matter of weeks, something that that Bounder Goodwin took 5-10 years to do in Scotland. . . . . . is Jail too good for these numkins?
PCM - Envest in Banks? - Joking + Grief.

jkd - 09 Jun 2009 17:25 - 438 of 483

i see PCM is talking about not having the balls to buy back in and G suggests having to pay to advertise rather than spamming.it seems we have more than one lloy thread on our board to post to. does this one have more history and might it therefore be more appropriate? just asking. i guess you will all decide which suits best.
regards
jkd

Master RSI - 09 Jun 2009 17:44 - 439 of 483

A loser has come ( just above)

Looking for kisses and cuddles

jkd - 09 Jun 2009 18:37 - 440 of 483

maybe such posts will scare everyone off, maybe not, personally i dont care as i am not a holder. what i do care about are bullies. as a non holder and to say i dont care is not really true because i do and i definitely have no ulterior motive or agenda, then see that i am not a new poster on this thread, go research this thread and see my previous comments,and compare to his, if you can find any.and ask if he has an ulterior agenda in posting,
MRSI is a bully.Newton it is said beat up his bully,
regards to you all
jkd
edit i have nor have made any recent view on the movement of this stock.

HARRYCAT - 09 Jun 2009 20:32 - 441 of 483

MRSI - Go back to your own thread. Take a hint.

jkd - 07 Oct 2009 18:33 - 442 of 483

any one like to get the Lloy thread back to normal,i.e. sensible and relevant posts relating to the company then please post here, lets hope we dont get hi jacked again.
regards
jkd

Falcothou - 07 Oct 2009 20:14 - 443 of 483

Lloyds is a commercial property play in my book, with HBOS loan book, rather than a bank

Balerboy - 07 Oct 2009 20:39 - 444 of 483

Thank goodness for some sense, BB

Balerboy - 07 Oct 2009 20:47 - 445 of 483

Thought a chart might help:
Chart.aspx?Provider=EODIntra&Code=LLOY&S

Balerboy - 07 Oct 2009 20:48 - 446 of 483

Maybe mojo47 can put one in the header...

jkd - 07 Oct 2009 21:07 - 447 of 483

Bb
i do hope so , otherwise i shall have to just try to remember page 23. not easy for one of my years.
regards
jkd

tipton11 - 12 Oct 2009 16:29 - 452 of 483

Whats wrong with the other LLoy thread?

skinny - 12 Oct 2009 16:33 - 453 of 483

Full of idiots.

maestro - 12 Oct 2009 17:23 - 454 of 483

SOLD OUT AND PILED INTO VOG

jkd - 12 Oct 2009 19:53 - 455 of 483

maestro
this a a Serious Lloy thread.for serious Lloy posters only. it has lots of history.
please go post your comments on the appropriate alternatve threads.
thank you
regards
jkd

skinny - 13 Oct 2009 08:45 - 456 of 483

Down through 90p on strong volume this morning.

Chart.aspx?Provider=EODIntra&Code=LLOY&S

skinny - 13 Oct 2009 09:03 - 457 of 483

Lloyds planned 11bn rights issue could reopen bankers bonus row

skinny - 13 Oct 2009 11:24 - 458 of 483

Lloyds falls amid cash call fears

skinny - 13 Oct 2009 16:36 - 459 of 483

Uncrossed under 90p.

hangon - 13 Oct 2009 17:55 - 460 of 483

I guess no-one believes thwey are (yet) out of the mire despite believing they did the deal of the decade. Sadly, the only "deal of" they did has resulted in their business decaying, hence 'decade' (geddit?).
Stupid management has not been ousted, to be replaced by sane Execs - and anyone that's "sane" will not want to touch this at least until they've fessed-up to further losses as the economy gfalters, despite our PM being plugged into the WWW (-wonderland).
I hold a few of these at a silly loss!

marni - 13 Oct 2009 18:58 - 461 of 483

sorry to hear that hangon.......i've no problem with people investing but not the ramping by master on other thread.

if gov could just leave lloy alone i'm sure they will be fine from now on......not plain sailing but will get better

skinny - 15 Oct 2009 08:15 - 462 of 483

Lloyds Banking In Talks With Rathbone Bros Over Sale Of Assets

LONDON -(Dow Jones)- Lloyds Banking Group PLC (LLOY.LN), the U.K. bank that is partly owned by the U.K. Government, said Thursday it is in discussions with Rathbone Brothers PLC (RAT.LN) regarding the possible sale of assets relating to certain non core private client discretionary investment management activities, principally the Bank of Scotland Portfolio Management Service.

skinny - 16 Oct 2009 07:55 - 463 of 483

SALE OF HALIFAX ESTATE AGENCY

TIDMLLOY TIDMLSL

RNS Number : 8960A
Lloyds Banking Group PLC
16 October 2009

?

90/09
16 October 2009

LLOYDS BANKING GROUP TO SELL HALIFAX ESTATE AGENCY
Lloyds Banking Group plc announces that it has reached an agreement in principle
to sell the Halifax Estate Agencies Ltd (HEA) business which operates through a
network of 218 offices, including 93 franchise operations, to LSL Property
Services plc (LSL). LSL is the parent company of estate agency brands Your
Move, Reeds Rains and Intercounty.

The proposed transaction is expected to complete in January 2010 and will
involve the assumption of Halifax Estate Agency's assets and liabilities for a
cash consideration of GBP1. The effect on the Lloyds Banking Group accounts is
not expected to be material. The Halifax brand is not included in the sale and,
in time, the Halifax Estate Agency offices will be rebranded to either Your
Move, Reeds Rains or Intercounty.

skinny - 20 Oct 2009 07:11 - 464 of 483

Rathbone Brothers Plc agrees to acquire certain private client funds from Lloyds Banking Group and enters into exclusive distribution agreement.

LLOYDS BANKING GROUP ANNOUNCES SALE OF CERTAIN NON CORE DISCRETIONARY INVESTMENT MANAGEMENT ACTIVITIES

skinny - 25 Oct 2009 10:06 - 465 of 483

Lloyds seeks 23bn to exit state scheme

skinny - 26 Oct 2009 13:06 - 466 of 483

UK Banks To Give More And Standardized Disclosure Information

By Margot Patrick
Of DOW JONES NEWSWIRES

LONDON -(Dow Jones)- Major U.K. banks will give investors more details and standardized explanations of how they value illiquid assets and otherwise mark their books, under a new regulatory code designed after confidence ebbed in banks' accounting practices during the financial crisis.

The new code, created by the U.K. Financial Services Authority, requires banks to clearly "tell a story" of their business performance in a reporting period, and to give detailed disclosure on their accounting policies and how and why a particular policy is applied to assets or liabilities.

It falls short, though, of requiring banks to start publishing quarterly financial statements, allowing them instead to continue publishing first- and third-quarter trading updates that may include no or few profit-and-loss numbers.

Though the code is still in draft form and out for consultation with banks, the FSA said Abbey National PLC, Barclays PLC (BCS), HSBC Holdings PLC (HBC), Lloyds Banking Group PLC (LYG), Nationwide Building Society, Standard Chartered PLC (STAN.LN) and Royal Bank of Scotland Group PLC (RBS) have agreed to implement it in their 2009 annual reports.

In adopting the code, the banks agree to provide "high-quality, meaningful and decision-useful disclosures to users to help them understand the financial position, performance and changes in the financial position of their businesses," the FSA said.

While banks will have discretion - beyond required regulatory and accounting standards - on the level of details they give on various parts of their businesses and assets, disclosures should "be made at an appropriate level of granularity to aid understanding of the information or activity being explained."

Under the code, banks will look to make it easier for investors to compare disclosure across the U.K. banking sector, by putting in place consistent approaches to how assets and liabilities are valued, and including a glossary of terms in financial reports.

Other key principles include considering going beyond what is required under international reporting and regulatory standards, and continually reviewing how disclosure could be enhanced on areas of particular interest, to help shareholders better understand their businesses and exposures.

Banks should also make it clear in annual reports whether information is audited or not.

Paul Chisnall, executive director for financial policy and operations at the British Bankers' Association - which helped draft the principles based on the code - said U.K. banks accept there is a "great deal of interest" in their financial positions and are committed to providing strong disclosure.

"Nevertheless, they recognize the need to guard against complacency and are happy to formalize their past practice of working through the BBA to identify new trends, understand new requirements and enhance the comparability of their financial statements," he said.

The FSA is launching the code after an earlier review of the regulatory response to the global banking crisis found investors' confidence in financial reports had hit a low despite banks' efforts to give more details on struggling parts of their businesses.

Regulators are grappling globally with how to better supervise banks and whether to put limits on some of their practices to try to avert another financial crisis.

Company Web site: http://www.fsa.gov.uk

marni - 26 Oct 2009 13:28 - 467 of 483

timber!!!

marni - 26 Oct 2009 16:51 - 468 of 483

cup and handle....lol.....full of alcohol with master.

lloy is in deep trouble................could be nationalised in future

jkd - 27 Oct 2009 19:15 - 469 of 483

from a chartist point of view we appear to have a head and shoulders top, Confirmed.
by a) the overhead daily gap having been "filled" and representing the "high" of the right shoulder thus leaving the field clear for price to resume its directional momentum. i.e.down
and b) a penetration of the " neck line" at the 87 support level having been broken.
additionally we have now broken through the weekly up trend line situated at circa 88.
this breakdown will not however be confirmed until we see this fridays closing price.
if it holds then we may well see a major rally.
as always , if this then that etc. dyor. too liitle time and too little space to explain all.
regards
jkd

skinny - 29 Oct 2009 11:00 - 470 of 483

RNS Number : 5826B
Lloyds Banking Group PLC
29 October 2009

96/09 29 October 2009

LLOYDS BANKING GROUP

Lloyds Banking Group (Lloyds) notes recent media speculation regarding its proposed potential participation in the Government Asset Protection Scheme (GAPS). Lloyds is in advanced discussions with HM Treasury, UK Financial Investments and the Financial Services Authority regarding alternatives to participation in GAPS.

Lloyds believes that any alternative proposals to GAPS would be likely to include a substantial capital raising of core tier 1 and contingent core tier 1 capital to increase the Group's capital ratios to an appropriate level of strength and flexibility, and would provide a strong capital base for the future stability and success of the Group. The alternative proposals would also meet the FSA's requirements for stressed economic conditions.

Capital raising options currently under consideration include a combination of raising immediately available core tier 1 capital by way of a rights issue and generating contingent core tier 1 and/or core tier 1 capital through the exchange of certain existing Group capital securities. The capital raisings contemplated are expected to be fully underwritten and will be subject to shareholder approval.

Should Lloyds not enter into GAPS it expects it will be required to pay HM Treasury a fee in recognition of the value of the implicit guarantee Lloyds has benefited from since the announcement of its intended participation in GAPS in March 2009. There can be no certainty at this stage that any alternative to GAPS will proceed. All options remain open.

Lloyds also notes recent media speculation regarding its discussions with the European Commission regarding the terms of the restructuring plan to address the state aid which has been received by the Group. Lloyds confirms that it is in advanced discussions with the European Commission and further details will be announced in due course. Based on the discussions to date it is confident that the final terms of its restructuring plan, including any required divestments of assets, will not have a material impact on the Group. The Group remains confident that it will meet its commitment to deliver more than 1.5 billion run-rate synergies and other operating efficiencies by the end of 2011, notwithstanding the impact of the expected state aid remedies.

The Group continues to trade satisfactorily. It has delivered a robust trading performance over the last few months and continues to deliver in line with recent guidance.

A further announcement will be made as appropriate.

skinny - 29 Oct 2009 11:27 - 471 of 483

In auction.

skinny - 30 Oct 2009 09:10 - 472 of 483

Lloyds shareholders impressed as shake-up details begin to emerge

skinny - 30 Oct 2009 12:20 - 473 of 483

EU To Make A Final Decision On Lloyds In Coming Weeks

BRUSSELS -(Dow Jones)- European Commission competition authorities hope to make a decision on Lloyds Banking Group PLC (LLOY.LN) restructuring plans in the coming weeks, a commission spokesman said Friday.

The commission has made "good progress" on its talks with Lloyds over the restructuring deal and "hope to take a decision in the next coming weeks," Jonathan Todd, the commission's competition spokesman said.

Lloyds is about to launch a multi billion-pound rights issue as part of efforts to exit the U.K. government bailout program it agreed to participate in last spring, when the banking sector was in crisis. The bank also hopes fresh capital will help limit any divestments it might have to make as part of its restructuring plan.

Under the rights issue, the U.K. government, which owns 43% of Lloyds, would have to invest around an additional GBP5 billion in Lloyds to keep its stake intact.

The U.K. government has so far given Lloyds some GBP17 billion in state aid, including money invested in HBOS PLC (HBOS-LN), which Lloyds later acquired.

Talks on another U.K. bank which also needs to have its restructuring plan approved by the commission, Royal Bank of Scotland Group (RBS), are ongoing Todd said.

skinny - 02 Nov 2009 15:00 - 474 of 483

UPDATE: UK To Announce Lloyds, RBS Revamps Tuesday - Government Source

By Margot Patrick
Of DOW JONES NEWSWIRES

LONDON -(Dow Jones)- Sweeping plans to recapitalize and restructure Royal Bank of Scotland Group PLC (RBS) and Lloyds Banking Group PLC (LYG) are to be announced by the U.K. government Tuesday, a person familiar with the matter said Monday, in a series of measures that will shake up the nation's banking sector and nearly double taxpayers' exposure to the two banks rescued from potential collapse a year ago.

The plans are expected to include RBS issuing about GBP19 billion in new shares, raising the government's stake above 80%, from 70%. Lloyds will launch a roughly GBP13 billion rights issue the government will subscribe to for about GBP5.5 billion, keeping its 43.5% stake intact.

The government will also agree to insure a GBP280 billion book comprising some of RBS' riskiest loans and investments, people familiar with the matter say, though RBS will be on the hook for a larger chunk--about GBP60 billion--of any initial losses than when the insurance program was first agreed in February. Additional shares could be issued to pay annual fees for the policy, to total around GBP6.5 billion in all.

Lloyds, meanwhile, will side step its own March plan for a similar government insurance policy, a person familiar with the matter said, instead paying about GBP2.5 billion to the government as a sort of "break fee" for having provided it with backstop support since then.

The moves mean government support for the two banks could rise above GBP63 billion, though the final structure of the deals, and any payout on the RBS assets will determine the ultimate figure.

U.K. banks were some of the hardest hit by market turmoil last year, as investors lost confidence in their ability to withstand a prolonged recession and liquidity dried up.

The government in October 2008 invested GBP20 billion into RBS and GBP17 billion in Lloyds to help them keep lending to businesses and home buyers and make it through the then-deepening financial crisis. Lloyds later paid back about GBP2.3 billion.

Last week, the U.K. Treasury agreed to put as much as GBP12 billion in new money into Northern Rock PLC, the mortgage lender it nationalized in Feb. 2008 and which already has a GBP15 billion loan outstanding. Other government commitments in the banking sector include a GBP18.4 billion loan to fund the nationalized portion of lender Bradford & Bingley, whose mortgage book is being wound down by the state.

The massive state aid meant the U.K. had to lay out to the European Union how the banks could be restructured to ensure their long-term viability, a process that involved bashing out what disposals the banks would have to make to keep the U.K. banking sector competitive.

RBS earlier Monday said it will have to make more divestments than initially thought. Previously it had said it would have to reduce its market share in lending to small businesses. Lloyds, however, Thursday said it doesn't expect disposals to have a material impact on its business.

The two banks have hefty market share in a number of key areas, including RBS controlling about 20% of lending to small businesses, and Lloyds holding about 30% of both the current account and mortgage markets after its merger in January with HBOS PLC.

Lloyds' merger with HBOS was pushed through by the government as the bail-out money was handed out last October. Chancellor Alistair Darling on Sunday said breaking up Lloyds, RBS and Northern Rock will help create three new lenders by 2013, boosting competition.

Tuesday's announcement is to come as the U.K. prepares to host meetings of G20 finance ministers and central bankers in Scotland this coming weekend. The U.K. is keen to show it is serious about reforming its financial sector and is urging other nations to move quickly to shore up their banks to face remaining challenges from the financial crisis.

-By Margot Patrick, Dow Jones Newswires; +44 (0)20 7842 9451; margot.patrick@dowjones.com

skinny - 03 Nov 2009 07:33 - 475 of 483

Govt announcement on banks.

skinny - 03 Nov 2009 08:09 - 476 of 483

Lloyds Banking Continued To Deliver Good Revenue In 3Q

LONDON -(Dow Jones)- Lloyds Banking Group PLC (LLOY.LN), the U.K. bank that is partly owned by the U.K. Government, said Tuesday that it continued to deliver a good revenue performance in the third quarter of 2009, with similar trends, excluding gains on liability management transactions, to those delivered in the first half of the year.

MAIN FACTS:

-Banking net interest margin has shown clear signs of stabilising and was flat in the third quarter of 2009, compared to the first half of the year.

-Costs in the nine months to Sept. 30 were 2% lower than in the equivalent prior period.

-Excellent progress has continued to be made on the integration of the enlarged Group, with the achievement of GBP50 million higher run-rate cost synergies than those previously announced.

-The run-rate of overall impairments has slowed in the third quarter of the year; Continues to expect impairments to fall significantly in the second half of 2009, compared to the first half of the year.

-Continues to expect the Group to report a loss before tax for 2009, excluding the impact of the GBP11.2 billion credit relating to negative goodwill.

-Core relationship businesses have, once again, performed well with good revenue growth, as margins begin to stabilise, and achieved a strong cost performance.

skinny - 03 Nov 2009 08:35 - 477 of 483

Lloyds Banking Group David Manning To Step Down

LONDON -(Dow Jones)- Lloyds Banking Group PLC (LLOY.LN), the U.K. Bank that is partly owned by the Government, said Tuesday that Sir David Manning has informed the Group of his intention to step down from the Board with immediate effect.

Matt7777 - 03 Nov 2009 09:58 - 478 of 483

both LLOY and RBS "agreeing" to sell part of retail networks (+other bits) off to appease the EU. Both probably around 5% of mkt share, so look forward to seeing some Tesco banks on the high street, and likely beardy branson shops too. Both will look to pick these up on the cheap, and then undercut the established players to nick the better customers. Look forward to getting 5 off your mortgate every month, and another 20p on your savings account. In the meantime , the 20k odd per head the govt has stuffed into the 2 big banks (i.e we as taxpayers have invested! ) will be at risk as their profits come under pressure from the new entrants.

Surely the govt can see the best way to get back some serious dosh is to let LLOY and RBS make a load of money in the next few years (as they have started to do now); let the shareprices recover 5-fold, then sell the shares they / we own. Job done, budget deficit sorted.

At least the incumbents have got 4 years to organise the sales! Hopefully they will drag their feet.

skinny - 04 Nov 2009 11:06 - 479 of 483

Publication of Prospectus.

skinny - 18 Dec 2009 07:49 - 480 of 483

Repurchase and Cancellation of Preference Shares

TIDMLLOY

RNS Number : 3471E
Lloyds Banking Group PLC
18 December 2009

?

18 December 2009

Repurchase and Cancellation of Preference Shares
As described in its previous announcement on 14 December 2009, Lloyds Banking
Group plc ("Lloyds Banking Group") has now settled the exchanges described in
that announcement. Pursuant to these exchanges, on 17 December 2009, Lloyds
Banking Group repurchased for cancellation (i) 15,400 preference shares
(representing U.S.$15,400,000 in liquidation preference) of its U.S.$750,000,000
6.413 per cent. Non-Cumulative Fixed to Floating Rate Preference Shares (ISIN:
GB00B3KSBH82) leaving 374,810 preference shares (representing U.S.$ 374,810,000
in liquidation preference) outstanding; (ii) 183,610 preference shares
(representing U.S.$183,610,000 in liquidation preference) of its
U.S.$750,000,000 5.92 per cent. Non-Cumulative Fixed to Floating Rate Preference
Shares (ISIN: GB00B3KSBJ07) leaving 371,933 preference shares (representing
U.S.$371,933,000 in liquidation preference) outstanding; (iii) 62,808 preference
shares (representing U.S.$62,808,000 in liquidation preference) of its
U.S.$750,000,000 6.657 per cent. Non-Cumulative Fixed to Floating Rate
Preference Shares (ISIN: GB00B3KSBK12) leaving 434,350 preference shares
(representing U.S.$434,350,000 in liquidation preference) outstanding; and (iv)
14,840 preference shares (representing U.S.$14,840,000 in liquidation
preference) of its U.S.$1,000,000,000 6.267 per cent. Non-Cumulative Fixed to
Floating Rate Preference Shares (ISIN: XS0460002693) leaving 533,618 preference
shares (representing U.S.$533,618,000 in liquidation preference) outstanding.

- END -

nordcaperen - 18 Dec 2009 08:27 - 481 of 483

Dead Donkey - need say no more !

skinny - 18 Dec 2009 09:00 - 482 of 483

Bank shares fall on fears over new regulations

Global banking stocks have fallen on concerns that banks will have to maintain significantly more funds in reserve from 2012.

skinny - 18 Dec 2009 11:47 - 483 of 483

UK banking sector 'significantly more stable'

The UK's financial system has become "significantly more stable over the past six months", the Bank of England has reported.

It said the situation had improved on the back of its efforts to assist the sector, such as its quantitative easing (QE) programme and 0.5% interest rates.

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