Pendragon has been hit by recent new-model sales affecting secondhand.....but the fact remains that in any downturn, non-essential purchases are put-off.
-That applies to extensions, kitchens, and cars.
If you can keep your car a couple of years (longer), that will save money.
- If Bosses are trying to restrict wages, they cannot change their company car!

Any views on this business - perhaps from Car-Buyers who know them?

One for the "UPS" selected a bit earlier

Master RSI - 3 Jun'08 - 13:57 - 89 of 94 edit
PDG 31.75 - 32p
After a good retracement lately, since yesterday there is signs of SP wanting to turn up,
some large trades earlier doing the good work now on the order book. Indicators well at oversold

Looks fooked to me , whats your target Master ?

We are in a strange scenario - normally cars are "up-rated" - by buying some kit to make it perform better, adding a new Chip, or raising ther compression, etc.
Car makers add extra cc's and so-on.
The Government believes increases in Tax will fix things....yet the effect on the car-market is dire!
Folks will be selling valuable scrap metal for peanuts - just to save 200-increase. Now, call me silly....buy I don't see the logic.
Sure we'd like the same performance at lower cost...but you can keep your car and just NOT DRIVE as much. At current prices you only need to avoid, 40Gallons typically, so "don't go" 800miles in a year. That's a weekly trip of 15 miles.
OR daily; avoid doing 2-miles.

I wonder if anyone can "reduce" performance to achieve a lower tax-band?

For older cars this is impossible - I changed a performance 2-litre turbo (20mpg) for a slower 1,9 TD (39mpg) and still pay the same TAX. should have worked that out beforehand, but the alternative was the 1.4 petrol model which is slower than a Tesco Trolley, given a good push.

Of course it's a TAX revenue stunt....but it has already lost 500 jobs at Pendragon...and can only get worse.....Politicians STOP mucking-up.

Hi all ..........

Just been talking to a local dealer of used prestige cars.

He says nothing is shifting.

The bottom fell out of the market in June, and sales since then are only one third of what they normally do.

They are taking writedowns on their stock ...... weekly.

You can get a lotta motor for your money ... if you've got it .......
But most people are feeling the pinch.

SP of PDG ............... I'm gobsmacked ......... where to now?

Regards
Amar

I was talking to a dealer last weekend. He also said nothing was shifting and that it was a particular problem with inefficient, fuel-hungry vehicles. The example he gave was a Mazda RX8, with a showroom discount of 20% (about 4k) which is still failing to shift.

Directors holdings must look sick having topped up around 80p mark a good few months ago. The Lookers website is much better class than PDG's and is used as a sales platform. PDG will downsize considerably if not disappear completely.

Had a meeting with one of the corperate dealer guys, says that they have been told that all is ok. Found the 28m they needed by end of July. Dixons depots they they got when they went pop is costing though. The whole trade is tight at this time, alot to do with build times due to east europe taking all the build slots.

Hi Stretch ..........

Didn't quite understand the comment / relevance of build times, build slots .........

Please expand.

Thanks
Amar

What I don't understand is why showroom-prices haven't fallen - look at the Sp - that's 90% down in 12 months - yet cars are discounted maybe 10-20% . . . eh?

Sure, I know those Cars cost Dealers money to buy - but the same applies to shares - it WAS real then!

Secondhand cars are also woefully expensive, with some being little more than a discount on NEW, even after 3 years - which "should" halve the price, roughly. New cars have added "extras" so I'd have thought the whole lot would be on the slide - it just shows This Market hasn't really bitten, -yet!

Does anyone think these stocks are safe-enough, at these levels, or could we see some dire financials yet, sending the sp lower? . . . . . sub 5p anyone?
Oh dear....and many could have bought a decent car for their investment.

I don't hold, but have experienced much the same with Bio's - but there the Risk is obvious - and there is an "upside" if it works - several times the investment....
YET, Where was the up-side in Cars a year+ ago?

It was obvious
OIL would rise over time, that
SUV's were being targeted by Congestion-charges/envy/etc....and there was a
hint of Sub-Prime from the USA ( not that I understood it)

....I didn't touch Motor Stock...for I failed to see an up-side ( from those "then" levels).......BUT at these levels...?

. . . . . Which?
Anyone suggest a ranking for them?

PS I wonder what he meant also
- I know the new Ford Ka (2009?) is being made in Fiat's Polandski Works - Huh! - what does that say?
DYOR

Amardev - The big manufacturers don't make their goods & then go out & find customers. For the mass auto industry, the cars now being built will have been ordered months ago (Forward Orders) & will have been allocated a slot in the production schedule. This then means that they know for the foreseeable future what workforce, parts, transport etc they will need & also what funds they have going out & coming in.
In addition, they will also know how long it takes for a green, right hand drive Gti to go down the line (Build time), so that they can plan daily production.
For the big fleet users, such as BT, whole weeks of production are allocated to them so that their spec is all built in one hit.

Hangon - Ford Ka built in Poland? Can't see it's a real problem. I remember owning a Ford Fiesta which was built in Spain. Quality control is reasonably good now wherever they are built & it all comes down to cheap labour in the end! Norwich Union, Dyson etc the list is endless! The only car Co which I watch with any hope at the moment is Inchcape who market a range of brands, but that's all I do at present - Watch.

Fiesta are/were made in Spain, as the name suggests - the Ka (rerplacement?) is scheduled to be built IN the Fiat factory (in Poland). - that's what I found surprising....but these days much of the minor-kit is outsourced, so why not the production?
As you indicated, Harrycat, production is in batches and it's just possible the new Ka might be a JV, with Fiat building a similar model, using the same jigs, etc...with a different appearance - - - as a replacement for the Panda/Punto.

I read that there was significant over-production of cars.
This is even worse now that Asian economies are keen to build their own. China is already making the "Rovere 75" -using the jigs and tooling bought from Longbridge.

Have just bought a s/h Rover 600 - it's a "walnut-version" of the Honda Accord.
EDIT (12Nov08) - Arrgh -
-there I've said it!
Cars still failing to shift and I cannot see a return to "normal" - indeed I suspect we shall soon see MP's being whisked about in "smaller" limos.

Sell Pendragon at all costs...even Ford, Chrysler and GM are going into administration.

Another great call by Master RSI back in June post 2 .... NOT !

1.5p...where is it going? sub 1p very likely.

You need extra large cojones to buy this share @1.4p as the future is bleak but if you do decide to buy beuno suerta.

I dont reckon we shall hear from Master RSI again.

Give him a break.

I made money on his recommendations trading short-term and I'm sure he did as well.

He's probably on a beach somewhere!

As for PDG it appears the SM has decided they won't be around much longer along with loads of other companies.

Probably an exaggeration but I heard someone saying they reckon 75% of listed companies will go bust. Would think it would be nowhere near that but so far the credit crunch/recession has been worse than forecast so why not a depression?

Well either way they look doomed cant see them existing after Xmas.

Like a lot of co's.

Doomed imo wont be long now.

A glimmer of hope according to the FT today the Banks have given Pendragon more breathing space on interest due in late 2008.

They have a chance.

Pendragon has shelved the sale of software subsidiary Pinnacle it hoped would
raise cash to buy it time in negotiations with its banks - Sunday Times

Thanks for that Greystone the weather is wet and cloudy today whats it like your end ..?

Much the same mitzy :(

Wet and cloudy again.

What a surprise..lol.

On bid alert someone bought 60 mills shares.

anyone else in..?

Wonder if Nigel Rudd who already owns 11 mill shares has bought the other 60 mill he is a genial operator.

The overhang has been cleared which is good news .

Classic chart I see no reason why 100p in 12 months.

mitzy go to your local car showroom and count the unsold cars.

I know halifax just a small punt for me.

Rise today is due to "Talks Starting" - which means they havent been presented with an Ultimatum (er, yet!).
This may be Good News for the Company - but I doubt it will profit Shareholders who are already suffering considerable losses.
Today, Mid is 9p-ish.
So, I wonder if Shareholders will suffer Dilution, with D4E - the company can hardly resist this.
+UK- Airfileds are full of unsold-cars, Car-plants are closing for want of Orders - I see further pain in this industry - esp since you lose 20% of your cash by driving the thing out of the Showroom. Definately a purchase for "feel-good" times, so I don't see Sales returning to 2006-levels for a while yet.

I bought @1.7p Xmas time worth a punt for me should they return to 100p.

mitzy dream on!

lol.

mitzy your dreams may come true!

lol halifax..

Chart looking fine.

I would be tempted to sell at tomorrow's close pre-budget

I'm holding mine for at least 12 months gl.

Now the finance is sorted I see no reason 100p in 12 months.

"Pendragon moved to hold from buy at Panmure Gordon, target price 26p
Business Financial Newswire
Shares have performed well lately and started to exceed broker's target price. Believes there is scope for significant recovery longer term but shares look fair value, currently on 12x 2010E recovery earnings. "

Don't quite understand that whereas LOOK and in particular INCH have made ground over the past 3 mnths or so, PDG has stalled at the lights.

Long signal given this morning indicating a possible new uptrend. I have bought in.

Disclaimer - I focus solely on price, not fundamentals.

Steve

Results due 18th feb possible re-instatement of dividend payments, looks under valued.

.

Let's see it get back to 25p by then ! plenty of interest here IMO

I would imagine 30p is next point.

Coming back to 30p.

UK economy buoyant house sales up nice time to buy a new car.

do people buy cars, leasing is very popular these days.

Still undervalued very much so.

Possible break out.

Bought some earlier today, been going well recently.

44p is the key.

Good figures out.

Broker Upgrade......

RESEARCH ALERT-Pendragon: Jefferies raises target price

28 Oct 2013 - 07:27

Oct 28 (Reuters) - Pendragon PLC : * Jefferies raises target price to 47p from 40p; rating buy For a summary of rating actions and price target changes on European companies: Reuters Eikon users, click on [RCH/EUROPE] Reuters 3000Xtra users, double-click [RCH/EUROPE] Reuters Station users, click .1580 ((nyc.equities.newsroom@reuters.com); (Reuters Messaging: saqib.ahmed.thomsonreuters.com@reuters.net) ((Bangalore Newsroom +91 80 6749 1130; within U.S. +1 646 223 8780))

Pendragon sees profit uplift on new car sales growth

28 Oct 2013 - 07:59

(Adds details) LONDON, Oct 28 (Reuters) - Car dealer Pendragon expects full-year profit to beat market expectations as new car sales continued to rise in Britain, bucking the negative trend across much of continental Europe. The company on Monday said the volume of new car sales rose 15.6 percent in the first nine months of 2013, with an 8.9 percent uplift in used car sales. The owner of the Stratstone, Evans Halshaw and Quicks dealerships said website visits were up 23.5 percent over the prior year for the nine months ended 30 September 2013. "Profitability in 2013 is expected to be materially ahead of expectations for the full year and we are cautiously optimistic about the prospects for 2014," said Chief Executive Trevor Finn. "Market conditions have been favourable this year, whilst the outlook to next year remains promising." Prior to Monday's trading statement the company was expected to report an average full year pretax profit of around 41 million pounds ($66 million), according to Thomson Reuters data. ($1 = 0.6186 British pounds) (Reporting by Rhys Jones; Editing by Brenda Goh) ((r.jones@thomsonreuters.com)(44)(20)(7 542 4166)(Reuters Messaging: rhysl.jones.thomsonreuters.com@reuters.net)) Keywords: PENDRAGON/

http://www.sharesmagazine.co.uk/news/pendragon-steps-on-the-gas#.Um5sZMU8H2A

market conditions are getting tough.

UPDATE 1-Website hits help push Pendragon profits up 100 percent
* H1 pretax profit up 99 pct to 33.2 mln stg * Underlying revenue up 2.7 percent to 2.07 bln stg (Adds details on website traffic, expansion, background) LONDON, Aug 5 (Reuters) - Britain's largest car dealer Pendragon PDG.L saw its profits rise 98.8 percent in the first half of the year with increased online visits helping push up used and new car sales. The company said 8 million people visited its website in the first six months of 2014, a 16.2 percent rise on the same period of last year, also helping to bolster its aftersales services. Pendragon, which runs more than 250 retail outlets and trades under the names Stratstone, Evans Halshaw and Quicks, saw profit before tax rise to 33.2 million pounds ($56 million) in the six months to 30 June 2014. "The internet transformation of our business continues to yield sizeable benefits for the group," said Chief Executive Trevor Finn in a statement. The group has focused on improving its online presence in recent months, with high-definition videos of selected vehicles allowing customers to peruse online before often visiting a dealership in person to make their purchase. Underlying revenue at the dealership rose by 2.7 percent to 2.07 billion pounds and Pendragon said it expected its full-year performance to be "comfortably in line with expectations." Tuesday's results are also a further sign of Britain's buyout car market, with new vehicle sales expected to hit 2.4 million in 2014, up more than 6 percent on last year and returning to levels seen before the 2008-09 financial crisis after, which they nose-dived. Pendragon said it was continuing with its strategy to increase the number of outlets it has across Britain. In February, Finn told Reuters he was eying expansion in cities including Bristol, Ipswich and Norwich, where the company would open dealerships if the right opportunity arose.

Another car outfit worth looking at maybe, anyone traded them?

They are half the price of Jan-2016, so I guess the Car-buying Public are waiting to see if Electric is the answer ( which it isn't until a 10x improvement ).... and Today Mayor of London slaps an extra £10 on cars more than 10years old, in addition to the "congestion charge"....Congestion largely caused by too many cycle-lanes used by few cyclists who prefer the pavements.... it appears. The additional pollution created by Uber-drivers roaming for pick-up, can't help either.
PDG has been n a range about 40p for some years . . so this dive to 23p after Profits Warning, is likely to affect other Car-groups . . . as any diesel car they hold will be a wasting asset as the Public has come round to realising it was a bad PR stunt . . . as anyone behind a diesel car know only too well... ( Although much better than 25years ago )..... Petrol cars appear to be included in this Pollution-madness IMHO.... and the flat-earthers are saying we should work nearer home, so we can walk.... Oh deary... and exactly how many jobs are within walking-distance? Er, and how did you get to the Broadcast Studio? Now take this photocopier to another branch studio in Birmingham... and stop dallying on your bike.
EDIT-(24Oct2017)-22.5p that's a further 5% down . . . what about PW in 3's...more to come...Oh Deary.
Cynic - of course you do, a rich man walks into the showroom to buy his Mrs a car...she falls in love with one at the front in her favourite colour which the Salesman assures is the colour in fashion- and hasn't yr wife got good taste? No doubt enhanced by the Sat-Nav upgrade, for central Africa and TV screen in the back to amuse the (grand)children. Sir will be paying cash or turning in an old motor? ( Either way he'll likely not get much discount, by the time the deep mats....phone-holder and other such "Extras" at £200/pop. The total come to £30k and includes the first service free ( where they cover the seats with plastic and wipe the door-handles with an oily rag, so you know it's been "looked at" . . .).
You think there isn't a "profit" there? The garage is making maybe 50% on any extras and they'll make maybe 20% on the Retail of the Car.... I'll agree these aren't huge amounts...but the same Staff+ Showroom will repeat this nearly every day.
What surprises me is that anyone pays the full-price, when it loses a Third as soon as it's driven . . . and is half the amount paid within 3-years. If it was a Diesel, then that's likely halved in 3 years.... also, no-one will be buying diesel, fearing their nearest Big-town will become the next Charging-zone.... So any Gge. with a stock of Diesels had better offer a good discount...and even then I'm not sure... as you'd be seen by friends as someone who pollutes...and-or can't afford the Retail Price of a petrol, ....Nowadays: for Petrol substitute Electric, when the North Circular has charging-points every 25 yards.... in a year or so, at whatever cost so the Gov. is greener than a lawn.
Are you a cyclist, perhaps...?

i have never understood how garages ever make a proper profit and have never bought - and assuredly shan't do so now!