Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

Of course I'll continue to talk to you. Why wouldn't I?

I left the "m" off because I've got this vision of it standing for Munster. Can you just confirm there's nothing sticking out of your neck for my own peace of mind?

Hils, try thinking Munamrie - that's how I do it:-)

mnamreh: the type of behaviour which most publicly admit to finding abhorrent, but with which they concur and extol in private.

I think you've explained it perfectly! because I have my own business I pay myself a tiny salary, make the rest dividends which are split between my wife and myself, because she is a shareholder. It's not really tax avoidance - more sensible use of the tax system. There are other things I am able to do but only because I have money in the business and a good accountant - who wouldn't go near anything that was remotely dubious.

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Blimey. A medic as well as a philosopher.

:o)

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After a bit of 'Googling', I found the following site, which gives a good outline on what it costs American kids to go to college.

What It Costs to Go to College

They say:

Nearly half (47 percent) of all full-time undergraduate college students attend a four-year college that has published charges of less than $9,000 per year for tuition and fees.

At the other end of the spectrum are private four-year colleges that cost $35,000 or more yearly in tuition and fees. These higher-priced colleges sometimes have bigger endowments and more grant aid available which may mean that you can get more financial help to attend that institution.

At two-year colleges, the average cost for tuition and fees is $2,713. Learn about the two-year college experience.

A handful of colleges either charge no tuition at all or offer all students full scholarships covering tuition costs.

....and there's more.

Put very simply, these are my views:

In the States, lots of kids 'work their way through it' to help pay their fees. I feel this is a very good idea. I saw to it too, that my kids got part-time jobs when they went to University. My daughter got jobs waitressing and my son had various part-time jobs as well as doing a bit of 'buying and selling'. Their mid-course employment experience was also done out of the UK and in the States, where once again, they got themselves part-time jobs.

With the first child's kick off into university life, my wife and I started our student rented house business. Part of the reason for this was our whole family's disappointment with the available accommodation. The general standard of that available seemed to be utterly terrible. Thus we bought our own , re-decorated and re-furnished it, the kids helped with this and they also helped get other tenants and manage the properties. We also 'technically' charged our kids rent, too. Later, they both assisted us with the purchase and refurbishment of other properties and all of this was an additional experience for them in a host of areas, far too numerous to mention here.

In this country we have had and do get, tons of 'lefty'' students who are lazy tossers and feel, that just because they have a string of good GCSEs and A levels, the world owes them a living.

A good education does help one 'get on' in life and thus get a better and more enjoyable life too. But it should not be for free. Someone has to pay for it.

Should it be me? Should it be us? Should it be the students?

Hmmm? I'm sorry to have to say, because it would appear to be 'unpopular with students', that I feel it should be the latter - just like it is in the States. But there are always different kinds of help around the corner and they don't have to bear the full brunt of this cost by themselves. This last message has been really hard to get across to them.

I think this coalition government are basically doing a good job. I think can see their pont of view on the point of student fees and educational finance, where there are other budgetary considerations from other directions too.

I feel it's a pity to hear that the Lib Dems might have now 'lost the Student Vote for good' because of their apparent 'about turn'. However, they do have themselves to blame and they shouldn't have promised on something, knowing it would be most unlikely that they could ever deliver on it.

I think part of the problem nowadays, is the restrictions
and unavailability of part time work.
To get through Grammar school and pay for my bike
and school uniform, I worked at picking beans(1d per bucket),
hoeing lettuce, making carnation buttonholes, harvesting mushrooms,
harvesting lettuce (at 4am) postman over Xmas,Saturday milkround and
washing dishes for BOAC and teahouses. Also pushing fish barrows up
Billingsgate Hill.
When I wanted to go to University, I was offered 10 a year towards
books.(about two weeks pay for a policeman)
I did not go to University.

And what year was that ? must be late 50's or early 60's

There's definitely part-time work available for youngsters nowadays, although it's impossible to say how that compares to years gone by.

My teenage kids have both got part-time jobs in high street fashion stores. They got up off their backsides at the start of the summer holidays, printed out 50 odd copies of a CV (such as it was) and went knocking on doors.

It's not difficult and any youngster can do it if they're of a mind.

My 2 nephews both left university only 5 years ago, both with good degrees.
One in Geology the other in Electrical Engineering.
Both went on to further study, both gaining a masters in their relative fields.
One is now taking a doctorate in geology.
The point is both worked their way through university and had no trouble finding part time jobs, in fact one had 2 such jobs.
They both said that although there were jobs around, many students did not want to work as it would mean missing all the partying.
And it was not as if they were both too good to be true, as both could drink a horse under the table.
Many student (not all obviously) want a free ride, mainly going to college/uni for the student life style.
As mentioned before, getting rid of mickey mouse degrees, leaving those subjects that will benefit both the student and the country in the long term would go a very long way to getting rid of these free loaders.
We saw an example of some of this future generation, urinating on a monument to Winston Churchill, and also spraying graffiti stating he was a war monger.
In some newspapers, there was a picture of a youth holding a banner which proclaimed, 'Make the rich pay'.
No doubt he is one of those who hates capitalism, that is unless he becomes one.
Says it all doesn't it.

It would also bring back some respect for the genuine student who studies and works hard to obtain a worthwhile qualification.
A degree used to mean something!

A,
The Queens Coronation.
Festival of Britain.
Caught for National Service in 53.
Got (some) further education (electronics)

So you were a Teddy boy then ? slashing those cinema seat's when they showed " Rock around the clock "

Stayed clear of the Mods and Rockers. Though I used
to go to the pubs in Richmond and Eel Pie Island where
the Stones,Yardbirds,Who and Strawbs all played live as
they were based in the area.
All free then but you had to pay a penny on the Toll
bridge to the island.

In the 50s and 60s you would have received a grant from your local council for your fees and maintenance costs. The trick was being accepted as the entry qualifications were a lot higher than now. One of the problems is that many students are doing silly degrees in media studies at universities that are really just technical colleges. The degrees are no use to them especially when the employer sees it came from a pretend university. There are just too many people going to university. The higher fees might put a few off.

How were polytechnics and technical colleges funded 30 or 40 years ago? It's a serious question to which I don't know the answer, but it seems to me that if students' education at those establishments was LA funded all those years ago, then the only thing that has changed since is the name.

Fwiw, I went to a drama college in Stratford and I'm pretty sure that I can remember getting a grant.

Edit: Is it simply just a case that more people are going into higher education in this day and age, and it is that which is causing the funding pressure?

Always thought you were a drama queen Hiltops :-)

Hilary
That is the problem. There has become an obsession that everyone should go to university. In fact it is not suitable for many people. Even sixth form college is unsuitable for some. Many of the kids do not turn up to lseeons regularly or are always late. There are disruptive kids at my son's sixth form college as well as disruptuve teachers.

One of the activist teachers, who is the NUT official there, called out the teachers on strike yesterday over fees. Why she would do this is a mystery as the college are on her side anyway regarding fees, the pupils at the sixth form college do not pay fees.

All she managed to do was deprive the kids of a day's teaching, which is not sensible as many have their first AS level exams just after resumption of next term. In fact my son has just missed his last politics class before his exam because of her.

H
6-8 O levels and 2 or 3 A level.
If you were doing chem or physics you
had to have an O in French or German.
This was before they stopped the matriculation
system and started lowering the education bar.

Nice pic

Obviously the Police Officer with his shield upside down,

A Failed his degree.
B Is the senior officer in charge.
C Both A and B
D Is an illiterate student, under cover.
E Obtained a degree in Modern Contemporary Design.