Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

What about the poor living in large houses. The advantage of the community tax was that you paid more according to your consumption. More people in the household would pay for more services (it wasn't a poll tax, it was a tax on the number of working age people).

It is interesting to see that China is achieving its growth due to supply side policies. These policies were first used widely by Maggie Thatcher. The coalition is beginnnning to use these policies once again.

I gather from reading the thread that squelched Fred is still posting. I would have thought that he had by now sold all his investments and redistributed all the wealth to the baby factory chavs and foreigners in our midst and so would have no need to visit a website for the hard working who spend their time trying to make money and pay taxes. I paid my CGT bill last week and that was enough to keep several lazy wasters in the style that they have become accustomed but certainly do not deserve.

TIM.

Be careful with your betting, or you and you family might become one of the "lazy wasters" dependent on the social services.

Every bet you have may have increasing losses.

Sorry, you are obviously too bright for that to happen to you.

Ummm

This-is-me,

Well said. Spot on.

Much more brighter then you with your silly childish remark's

Why don't you for once just answer the question .

" I would have thought that he had by now sold all his investments and redistributed all the wealth "

Aid,

when body's were piling up waiting to be buried

Names and their meanings......Fred, "elf or magical counsel; peaceful ruler".

Nothing personal, but I do wish he would just magically elf away (was going to put a different word than away, but don't want to upset MoneyAm).

But seriously. Why is anyone even bothering to reply to him.
I have always enjoyed well thought out, well worded discussions/augments but all Fred's posts are designed to wind people up.

PS. If you have a car smash, be careful on which side of the Post code you have it, or you might end up in the wrong hospital.

ie, the one without a bed for you.

What a crazy governing elite.

What is Fred talking about , his reply to my post is nothing remotely connected to what i wrote . His a complete waste of space .

Can't believe you are still trying to debate with him. Complete waste of time. Best just ignored.

Was the Greek a short while ago espousing or condoning the use of torture to extradite information.

Don't think I can take him seriously.

Aid,

I would have expected with a little work you may be able to comprehend the implications of the Cameron proposals.

I think this is a government programmed for disaster.

But fortunately, "I am all right Jack".

What is Fred talking about , his reply to my post is nothing remotely connected to what i wrote . His a complete waste of space .

THIS IS A AUTOMATIC REPLY

AIds.

You rarely seem to engage your brain and your responses are generally predictable.

An automaton with a mantra seems applicable.

Good luck, you may need it.

Fred
The hospital postcode lottery has been inexistence for years. It has nothing to do with the present government. I found an article in the Guardian from 2000 complaining about it when Labour were in power. It is suggested that it has been the same since 1948. The Labour government, said in 1997, that they would stop the postcode lottery. Was the reason that they failed because they needed more time?

The current Labour bunch like complaining about various things they they say the Conservatives should have done already. These are mainly things that Labour did not manage to do in 13 years.

Hays,

I agree there has always been a variation in "quality" of "care" throughout the life of the NHS, but the management reorganisation is going to exaggerate the differences even more, just when the quality overall has been improving for 10 to 15 years.

Of course there always has to be examination of cost and reduction in true wastage.However it could be done by evolutionary changes of the present management system.

GPs in general do not have the overall training, knowledge or skills to overview the strategies necessary for a care system which takes into consideration of the country as a whole.

The problem I see with this inept government is going for change for change sake, in order to be seem doing something. It does not matter how potentially damaging the changes are. as they are devolving responsibility from themselves and then think that they will be able to blame others.

Over the years I have known many teachers, lecturers, medical practitioners, nurses and other forms of "social" workers (and police force). The problem which irritated them the most, was the constant "reorganisation" of areas of work.Due to the irritations and demoralisation the qualities of what they were doing lessened and they gradually became self interested.

I think the attempts. by this coalition government to shift responsibility to the GPs and local bodies (having already filled the Gps. and Consultants' mouths with gold over the last 5 years) will lead to a more expensive, or poorer system run by little business men with their eyes on their own pockets.

I will watch.

Hi Fred

So Maggie was flying outdated flags. Would you now prefer to see the EU flag on our battleships or are you just thoroughly pi$$ed off that Wales was never represented in the Union Jack. If we include it would you no longer consider it outdated?

Quality in the NHS has been improving over the last 10-15 years because of improvements in medicine, equiptment, knowledge and buildings all paid for with borrowed money i.e. unsustainable. Maybe this was the last great golden parachute this last generation of government gave themselves - a state of the art NHS which will look after them in old age - all paid for by the younger generation. If you did a poll about the NHS management and staff you would probably find the quality is not so good compared to what it used to be.

Evolutionary management change does not work with anything that is publicly funded, especially when it is not elected. From my frequent dealings with local bodies the management is hired from a pool of best mates and yes people - 'god forbid they rock the cosy boat'. Best mates being taken on on a salary grade which does not befit their longstanding friendship - no matter lets make up a new job title, the public are too stupid to notice - voila another 25k in your pocket, oh and we farm out your work to other consultants anyway so put your feet up. In the truly private sector this is not a problem because we are not forced to hand over vast amounts of cash for them to play with. I expect you'll say farming out work to private companies is good for the country but why not leave the money with the companies in the first instance. Easily done - lower tax.

I think GP's would be more than adequate to run the NHS, after all, they will only end up employing the redundant PCT staff it but at much more commercial terms.

This government is making changes for because of the need to make changes. Simple concept to understand. You are retired aren't you? that explains a lot, you get to benefit while not necessarily contributing much to it (unless you are a trading guru and even then you would do it in a tax efficient manner. I expect you manage to make full use of ISA's annual limits etc.

I note your list of professionals who hate change but maybe when labour learn to stop bankrupting the country by forcing everything on theese professionals, needed or not, they may find that utopian plateau and begin to enjoy work again.

I must be missing something with your last point. Are you really saying the coalition have been running a money laundering racket for 5 years (5 years?) whereby they were forcing GP's and consultants to accept dodgy gold. Where was this gold coming from, can't have been the taxpayer because labour had already spent that.

Its a conspiracy, you are maestro's dad! There is only one big political party after all but they all take it in turns to be out in the wilderness (poppy fields) - liberals more so than others which explains a few things)) harvesting the 'money to launder'.

OK. Hate to do this as I really have enjoyed this thread, but if people keep replying to Fred, I won't be posting as I can't see any point in visiting the thread. Recently all I keep seeing are replies to Fred who must be jumping up and down in childish glee.
Fred as we know will argue that 'black is white' so why bother to answer him.

To those who I have agreed or disagreed with in grown up terms, regards all.

"You are maestro's dad!"

Could anything be worse? (apart from actually being maestro)

LOL

Could be maesto's children?

Raw,

Just a quick note.



1) I object to be called English, if the person does it knowingly, but not to being called Welsh, or British. I have no difficulty in being thought of as European. Even Churchill wished for an integrated Europe.
2) The Flag is of iconic value only and as far as the Welsh Dragon is concerned, it represents for me the Welsh nation on Rugby International days only and for bating the English when they lose. Although, my culture and nature is that of a Welshmen and I am grateful for my heritage.
3) I would prefer more integration into Europe with an European DEFENCE FORCE of some meaning, rather than an over expensive British underfunded, underequipped, toy army.
4) My preference would be a properly organised, equipped and financed United Nations force, capable of policing international problems and catastrophes. .
5) This is unlikely to occur in my life time. But wars are becoming economically unsustainable e.g. Vietnam.. Iraq. Afghanistan etc.. (Part of the cause of our economic problems.)
6) The cost of these fiascos could have been used for humanitarian intervention and would have created less hatred of Britain and the USA around the world.
7) The NHS service was left in a decayed state by a ruthless selfish tory period of government, which governed for a period of 17 years for their own self advancement.
8) The hospitals and the rest of the NHS at the end of that period were in an antiquated and demoralised state.
9) The quality of management is debatable, but the problems in management were introduced initially by Maggies government in introduction of managers who had little understanding of the complexities of the NHS and attempted to introduce the commercial, or market system to the NHS. Some of the various groups within the NHS found that they were in the market place and decided to utilise their muscle for personal benefit, rather than more altruistic benefits for society. Maggie said, or implied that there was no such thing as society. Many medics and marketeers went out to prove her right.
10) The tories unleashed a low level confrontation, and like as now, didnt have a clue about the complexities and value of the NHS and allied social services/
11) There is a cost and as I have said before, wastage needs to be reduced and gradual reforms have to be introduced at a reasonable rate, but you sacrifice the universal NHS at a price.
12) It seems to me that the introduction of many of the managers NHS, in the early days of change. was based on the old boys network.
13) Your comment Evolutionary management change does not work with anything that is publicly funded, suggest ideological bigotry. From family experience of those in managerial roles I have witnessed the introduction of evolutionary changes in Nationalised Industry with minimal conflict, while at the same time, other similar size enterprises were in constant conflict. Those with harmonious relationships, was due to management and employees accepting they were on the same side and the changes mutually advantageous. (That was due managerial skill and mutual respect of one another, which is still lacking by some.
14) I have not anything basically against private business, or enterprises, but expect them to be respectful of society in general. But, having written that, I cannot see why anything produced by the private enterprise cannot be produce of equal quality and similar unit price by a publically own body. Not suggesting in practice that this is always so, or that some areas lend themselves to small niche areas of the general market, because of the size,
15) The leasing out of the domestic services and cleaning services of the NHS to the private sector for their profit lead to an obscene standard of cleanliness in the NHS. I leave it to you to have a look at the cost of PFIs etc.
16) General Practices are small businesses and the majority of GPs have limited knowledge of current hospital working practice after 5-10 years of being in their own environment. Also, many have little knowledge of Public Health, Psychiatric overall needs, or the intricacies of social workers, etc. They also lack the necessary accountancy and managerial skills.
17) I do not wish to be confronted by the insane, or demented on the streets, or suffer from infectious disease community due to inadequate management, or because it is cheaper to treat in the community when it would be more sensible to nurse in more appropriate ways.
18) (I have family members who have worked in or are exposed to the NHS in various roles )
19) Advancements in medical knowledge and medical care have led to fantastic improvements in medicine. Some of which are initially expensive. But, let us suppose you have a child, or a member of your family who develops Motor Neurone disease and need expensive ongoing care and approach your GP for help. However, your friend, the GP has 3-4 patients with heart problems needing ongoing care , which costs the same amount of cash, or perhaps, the staff need the cash in order to satisfy a pay rise, will you be happy for the judgement to where the money goes is decided by the GP, or his local small management team. (Particularly, if you have put his back up.)
20) I am retired and as you suggest the majority of my investments are within Isas or similar tax arrangements and I also have a larger than average index related pensions. My family over the last 10 years have given the equivalent of over 500,000 to various charities and that will be added to, by approximately another 500000, or more, by will of property etc,. I hope to do similar, but it will probably be to a lesser degree. My primary intention is to aid my grandchildren to obtain the education they think desirable for themselves.
21) I think it is obvious that you are missing something, and I suggest you re-read that which I wrote. You could then apply it to the period that I was suggested and refresh your memory of the income rises of the medical profession during that period.
22) If you wish to examine a conspiracy to defraud, I suggest you look at financial deposits by in the Caymen Islands and question the morality of a group of PR men stating we are all in it together.
23) Or perhaps Ashcrofts tax arrangements. (Morality.)
24) As far I being Maestros dad is concerned. I have always known in whose bed I have slept. Do you?



Thank you for helping me to clarify my positioning!!!!!!!!!!!