Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

It is good to see Dodgy Dave and Georgie Boy so confident about the economic recovery.

We know which schools they went to, but which planet are they from.

Also, good to see that Osborne could make time to see the Murdoch "group" for advice on 17 times in recent months.

I wonder what he was selling to them.

Smells like what the dog left behind.

The last person leaving needn't turn the light out. There won't have paid the electricity bill.

The poor man of Europe is looking sicker and that is before they are bled by the future cuts.
==============

Apparently, Vince Cable is laughing in the corner waiting for the call to be Chancellor in order to try an bail out the government.


Another interesting point is the tory back benches are claiming the Cabinet are "elitist" and to "right" and won't listen to them.

That is a laugh, when you look at the tory back benches!

Osborne pleased with positive economic growth.

Do you think Murdock was asking Osborne on how he should run NI?

Was he getting paid for any advice given?

Or perhaps a promise note?

Not much value now.

Rupert Murdoch says he is touched by some of the messages on Amy's phone.....

Always thought Muddy was a man from another World.

Now I know that this is truely the talk to yourself thread!
ExecLine- 25 Jul 2011 10:55 - 11802 posts exactly the same thing I did!
This_is_me- 23 Jul 2011 19:02 - 11785 of 11822

Consequences Of No US Debt Deal Spelt Out


(c) Sky News 2011, 17:01, Wednesday 27 July 2011

The United States remains on course to default on its debt for the first time in history in six days time, as politicians continue to squabble over the answer.


There are signs the American public is growing increasingly frustrated that the White House and Congress cannot strike a deal.

And stock markets around the world are watching closely, with credit ratings agencies threatening to downgrade America's AAA-rating unless a significant solution to the debt and deficit crisis is found.

Officials from two of those agencies, Moody's and Standard and Poor's, are due to address a congressional hearing later today.

So far, all attempts at compromise among the Republican-controlled House, the Democratic-run Senate and President Barack Obama have failed.

The President and Speaker of the House John Boehner have repeatedly clashed, with Mr Obama refusing to accept a plan that would effectively put off the debate for six months, saying that would fail to provide stability to the US economy.

Mr Boehner was forced to make an embarrassing U-turn after the congressional budget office said his plan would actually cut spending by less than he promised.

He was already struggling to win support from conservative Republican members of congress, including those from the Tea Party movement, who believe greater cuts are needed.

Democrats in the Senate have their own plan which would cut a similar amount but defer the biggest questions until 2013.

Republican Senator Mitch McConnell said: "We need to get an outcome and to get to an outcome, a Republican House, a Democratic Senate and a Democratic president would have to reach an agreement.

"So I'm prepared to accept something less than perfect because perfect is not achievable."

If the debt ceiling isn't raised, the government faces defaulting on its loans and obligations including $23bn (14bn) in social security pension payments.

Credit agencies want to see evidence that the country is serious about cutting its debt and deficit.

The downgrade they are threatening could add an extra $100bn (61bn) in interest payments to that debt.

That would raise interest rates for Americans seeking home mortgages and car loans and force up the cost of credit card debt.

Mr Obama says that would represent a silent tax increase on Americans - and one of the sticking points in the negotiations is Republican refusal to accept an increase in tax revenue.

Exactly the same thing happened with Clinton. It was a 'who will blink first situation'. I cannot rememebr who blinked, but the same will happen this time. It might settled a few hours before the deadline, but it will be settled. This is just a story for jounalists.

I agree, it will be settled but it will end up just as much of a fudge as the EU bail out decision. So no doubt in 6 months or less they will, like the EU be back to square one.

At corporal Jones in Dads Army says, Doomed, were all doomed.

Greek - that was Private James Frazier - but we know what you mean :-)

Why if the Euro and Euro Zone doomed is the following chart as it is.

http://www.indexmundi.com/xrates/graph.aspx?c1=EUR&c2=GBP&days=365

Saw ghost the musical in London last night. Amazing. Highly recommended.


http://youtu.be/Sw5a5beiLSw

I think anyone who thinks the UK is better outside the EU Should listen to the following conversation with Joseph Stiglitz (Clinton economic advisor) which was on World At One today.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/b012r6v2

Also, I suggest they check the population of the European Zone, USA, Russia. India and China.and realise that UK economy is flea bite size and will be swatted if we are outside the larger Euro zone.

A lot of the members Euro Zone already see the UK as a pain in the arse and seem to be becoming more antagonistic to the ongoing attempts by various tory governments to fragment its existence.

Perhaps De Gaulle was sensible to block the UK enttry.

================

Another interesting article;



Splits begin to show in coalition as worries mount about rekindling growth

George Osborne was relieved that yesterday's figures show the UK in better shape than Europe. But political dangers lie ahead

Patrick Wintour
Patrick Wintour, political editor
guardian.co.uk, Tuesday 26 July 2011 20.29 BST
larger | smaller

George Osborne
George Osborne on a factory visit as new figures showed UK growth dropped from 0.5% to 0.2% in the second quarter of 2011. Photograph: Lewis Whyld/PA

Nigel Lawson in his memoirs described a chancellor's life as "a never-ending struggle against destabilising forces". Yet it says something for the jumpy mood at the top of government that growth figures published on Tuesday showing the economy has been flatlining for the past nine months came as a blessed relief. There had been fears that the economy would have contracted in the second quarter.

There is also relief that the dangerous political deadlock in Washington over the deficit and the continuing battle to stabilise the eurozone have made Britain look like a comparative haven of tranquillity. The markets did not nosedive on hearing the growth figures; inside the Conservative party there is only anxiety, but no sign of panic. Only Boris Johnson, worried about his re-election next May as London mayor, made noises about a growth manifesto.

But the political stability inside his party gets George Osborne only so far. A long L-shaped recovery looks possible, with all the attendant impact on public finances, deficit reduction and the remorseless propaganda battle with Ed Balls, the shadow chancellor, at the next election.

The Office for Budget Responsibility may be independent of government but it will not help the credibility of Osborne as chancellor to be forced to announce the fourth downgrading of his 2011 growth forecasts, as he surely will in the autumn statement in October or November. He can only blame cold weather and then the warm weather so many times.

Talk of friction between No 10 and No 11 is dismissed, but that does not mean there is no political pressure from across government on Osborne to show that Plan A is more than a merciless deficit reduction programme at a time of austerity. Sticking to a steady path has its virtues; and Osborne also has to exude confidence, hence his emphasis on Tuesday on the positive. But at the same time if he does not confide in the public soon he runs the risk of appearing out of touch with ordinary people increasingly worried by cuts in their living standards.

The message from other cabinet ministers is that Osborne must not give the impression of a man who has put the economy on autopilot and has nothing else to do but wait for the austere medicine to work at some indeterminate point in the future.

The Treasury was re-emphasising on Tuesday how much Osborne has already done to let the animal spirits loose, and to rebalance growth in the economy. Corporation tax will fall in three phases from 28p to 23p over four years. Tax credits for research and development are being boosted. Enterprise zones are being formed, planning rules relaxed and red tape lacerated.

No Liberal Democrat cabinet member is pressing privately for a change of course on the deficit. Both Vince Cable, the business secretary, and Chris Huhne, the energy secretary, recognise that a shift on the deficit would send the markets into turmoil.

But politically they would like to see more signs that government is reacting to the worse than expected growth. Cable has called for the Bank of England to undertake quantitative easing, a request that Osborne and Cameron will not follow or support.

There is also a developing disagreement between the Liberal Democrats and Conservatives over deregulation. Cable will deregulate with the best of them, and indeed will announce deregulation of shops on Wednesday. But some Liberal Democrats in government are arguing regulation can boost as well as hinder investment. For instance, regulation to require heat-efficient homes can lead to a surge in construction.

The worry for Osborne is that with interest rates at rock bottom, inflation high and no freedom to manoeuvre on spending, the only public intervention he can make is on growth strategy. Yet that is not going to produce a short-term boost.

There is every chance that the economy will remain flat for at least another six months. If that leads to a rise in unemployment in the autumn as the effect of the spending cuts bite, then there will be pressure on the public finances and revised forecasts from the OBR.

Labour thinks that could be the moment of maximum political danger.

That pressure will be intensified if growth in Britain continues to diverge from France and Germany. Germany achieved a growth rate of 1.5% in the first quarter of this year, and France grew by 1%.

By next spring's budget, Osborne may have to make a move on income tax, ending the 50p rate off the back of advice from Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs that it is not generating the tax take expected. That would lift the Tory mood at a dangerous time.

guardian.co.uk Guardian News and Media Limited 2011"

It looks fantastic. Glad you enjoyed.

Been to quite a few 3 monkies, this one was great. Thanks 3 monkies.

Banks bear brunt of blue-chip sell-off

Symbol Price Change
32H.BE 0.00 0.00

AUY.DU 18.95 0.00

BARC.L 221.00 -7.75

CNA.L 320.30 -5.40

CSMA 20.69 -0.04


20:00, Wednesday 27 July 2011

Traders remained reluctant to put their money on the table amid fears that US lawmakers will fail to agree a deal to avoid a default on the countrys debt, and European sovereign debt concerns still preyed on dealers minds.

FTSE today: market report live

Banks (Euronext: SBK.NX - news) bore the brunt of the sell-off, with Lloyds Banking Group (LSE: LLOY.L - news) , Royal Bank of Scotland and Barclays (LSE: BARC.L - news) among the sharpest fallers as strategists at Goldman Sachs (NYSE: GS - news) cut their stance on the banking sector to neutral from overweight.

Although the banks rallied strongly last week after European leaders struck an agreement to prop up debt-laden Greece, Goldman pointed out that disquiet about the deal remained.

After the initial optimism (the package included some very important elements that were above market expectations), doubts have started to creep back into the market, said the broker. In particular these revolve around the scope for funding the new initiatives, particularly in relation to the upsized role of the European Financial Stability Facility.

Goldman pointed to other factors that could weigh on the banks, such as weak domestic demand throughout the periphery of Europe (Chicago Options: ^REURTRUSD - news) . Concerns about capital raisings are also likely to remain high for some time, despite the relatively benign outcome of the stress tests, it added.

Nervous investors bailed out of the banks, sending Lloyds down 1.94 to 43.24p while Royal Bank of Scotland (LSE: RBS.L - news) shed 1.16 to 35.01p and Barclays lost 7.75 to 221p.

Their falls came as the market remained jittery about a failure to break the debt deadlock in America, where the Government is expected to hit its borrowing limit on August 2. Persistent sovereign debt concerns in Europe were also evident in the climbing yields of Spanish and Italian bonds. The FTSE 100 tumbled 73.15 points to 5856.58 while the FTSE 250 (FTSE: ^FTMC - news) sank 138.58 points to 11650.34.

Along with the banks, Burberry eased 40p to 15.09 while Centrica (LSE: CNA.L - news) fell 5.4 to 320.3p after Ofgem fined its British Gas business 2.5m for breaching regulations related to the handling of customer complaints. But on the upside, Autonomy (Dusseldorf: AUY.DU - news) advanced 64p to 17.20 as second-quarter sales at the software company jumped 16pc. Accountancy software business, Sage , put on 4.3 to 218.4p.

& DowngradesBonds.Related Quotes
Symbol Price Change
399320.SZ 2,095.00 +16.95

ABX.SG 0.00 0.00

BARC.L 221.00 -7.75

MCO 35.58 -1.84

NBXB.BE 0.57 0.00

Emma Rowley, 21:02, Wednesday 27 July 2011

As possible financial Armageddon looms in the shape of warring American politicians, many are asking what happens if the worst - a default by the US on its debt - is avoided, but the country still loses its prized triple-A credit rating?

The scenario is increasingly under discussion. Standard & Poor's, one of the triumvirate of leading credit rating agencies, has warned it could cut its rating on US Treasuries (government bonds) even if the debt ceiling is raised, since politicians may not agree to cut spending as it wants.

Investors are now turning to Japan (NYSE: MCO - news) for lessons as the country has first-hand experience of losing a top-notch rating. Certainly, Tokyo offers up a glaring example of what not to do over a downgrade.

Back in 2002, Takeo Hiranuma, the then economy minister, was the focus of an international row over his reaction to the decision by Moody's Investor Service (Shenzhen: 399320.SZ - news) to put his country's rating on a par with various emerging economies and below Botswana.

"About half of the people of Botswana are AIDS patients and it is outrageous that [Japan's] rating is lower," he fumed. Soon not only did he have faltering growth to deal with, but he also had to make a grovelling apology to AIDS sufferers over his (factually inaccurate) comment.

The drama marked just one of a series of downgrades which followed the move from Moody's to cut Japan's sovereign rating one notch, from Aaa to Aa1 (SNP: ^AA1Y - news) , its second highest grade, in November (Berlin: NBXB.BE - news) 1998.

Citing long-term risks arising from economic and policy weaknesses, Moody's put an end to the country's hopes to keep its prime credit rating.

The decision had already been anticipated a few weeks earlier when Fitch, the smallest of the top three agencies, downgraded Japan's foreign-denominated debt. Standard & Poor's, the last of the trio, eventually followed suit.

Yet ignoring the indignity of it all, Barry Knapp, an economist at Barclays (LSE: BARC.L - news) Capital, thinks the impact was not as bad as it looked. He concludes that it was the "macro fundamentals" - the bright spots and problems in Japan's economy - which drove asset prices, rather than the cut to the country's credit rating.

Admittedly, the reaction to the Moody's downgrade did look alarming. The yields, or returns, on Japanese government bonds rose sharply, suggesting investors demanded greater rewards to shoulder the risks around the debt. But "counter-intuitively", the yen and the Nikkei index (Osaka: ^N225 - news) rallied.

It turned out that Japan's industrial production had just bottomed out. Moody's had chosen to downgrade Japan "at the end of recession".

Not only that, but it was the autumn of the $4.6bn collapse of hedge fund Long-Term Capital Management. Worried investors' "flight to quality" such as Japanese bonds had depressed the yields.

That suggested that yields were already set to rise (in other words, demand for the bonds would fall) as markets regained their appetite for riskier assets. "The sharp move higher in yields had already begun prior to the downgrade and continued as the economy emerged from recession," Mr Knapp (Stuttgart: A0Q4LG - news) summarised.

What does this mean for the US? It will be downgraded but the big picture figures will drive shares, bonds and the dollar, Mr Knapp predicted. "After a brief muted market reaction, the direction of the markets will be highly leveraged to the data with expectations of a [second half of 2011] rebound in economic activity hanging in the balance."

A reassuring view assuming, of course, that the threat of default is just that.

Last updated: July 27, 2011 2:52 pm

Moodys downgrades Cyprus bonds
By Joshua Chaffin in Nicosia and Peter Spiegel in Brussels
Cyprus moved closer to becoming the fourth eurozone country to need a bail-out after Moodys downgraded its bonds to just two notches above junk, arguing that political turmoil on the island and its exposure to Greek debt raised questions about its ability to service its own debt.

Senior European officials insisted there were no special talks underway with Nicosia and said they did not believe a bail-out was imminent.

More
On this story
Triple wave of trouble threatens Cyprus
Editorial Cyprus awash in a tide of troubles
Cyprus bank chief sounds warning
Cyprus governor warns of emergency after blast
Notebook The shaky basis of the Greek rescue
It is not on my immediate radar screen, Franis Baroin, Frances finance minister, told the Financial Times on Wednesday.

But the Cypriot banks Greek debt exposure has raised concerns, particularly after last weeks eurozone deal, which will lead to defaults of some Greek bonds.

The country also faces political turmoil, with President Demetris Christofias calling for the resignations of all members of his cabinet at a meeting scheduled for Thursday.

A munitions dump explosion near the countrys largest power plant two weeks ago killed 13 and led to rolling blackouts across the island. The economic impact of the accident could be substantial. Moodys said it now believed there would be no growth in 2011; the Cypriot government had projected 1.5 per cent.

The accident has led accusations and ministerial resignations over what the government knew about the risks to the power plant. The upheaval has stalled an austerity package that European Union officials believed was essential to restoring the countrys fiscal health.

Cypriot banks are among the eurozones largest holders of Greek bonds. According to the European Banking Authority, Bank of Cyprus holds 2.4bn in Greek debt and Marfin Popular Bank holds 3.4bn.

Yields on Cyprus 10-year bonds maturing in 2014 jumped 0.85 percentage points to 10.18 per cent, well above the borrowing rates that forced countries like Ireland and Portugal into bail-outs.

We are monitoring the situation of the banking sector in Cyprus closely and are in contact with the authorities, said one senior European official.

Standard and Poors cut its rating on Greek sovereign debt from triple C to double C, the same level as Moodys, in anticipation of a selective default on some Greek bonds.

Hi Skinny,

Your right. Private Frazier it was.
Mind you a bit of cold steel up em (they don't like it Mr Mannering, they don't like it) might just wake them up a bit.

Cheers Greek

Debt crisis: America faces a decision that will affect us all

To understand the origins of todays stand-off between Republicans and Democrats over the US debt crisis, it is necessary to revisit an event which took place in Boston Harbour nearly 238 years ago. On December 16, 1773, a group of Massachusetts colonists boarded ships belonging to the East India Company and threw the entire cargo into the sea. There, in tax rebellion, began the American Revolution.

This iconic event in US history, the one from which the modern Tea Party takes its name, helped establish a national aversion to taxation that has remained at the heart of the American psyche ever since. For a people defined by the idea of rugged individualism, self-reliance and the frontier spirit, the presumption of low taxes and correspondingly small government is an article of faith as sacred as motherhood and apple pie.

Skinny,

I think the tea party and other barking mad parties (BNP, UKIP, Neo Fascists, Right wing partiesetc.) are -perfectly correct.

There should be no taxation, or at least reduce to as close to zero, as is possible.

A perfect society, without police, lanes instead of roads, sewerage in the gutters, education for only those who can pay. No emergency service, who needs them anyway. (At the moment.)

The comparison of the Tea Party an the organisers of the American Revolution doesn't stand examination. The taxes being paid by "Americans" to "England" were disproportionate and seen as payment to a distant elite by those who saw themselves as disenfranchised.