Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

A post which I feel is well worthy of some support there, Fred.

Sorry Exec, have to disagree. IMHO Fred is a Welsh Twat and a Knobhead, with his head up his arse regards to everything that comes out of his fetid gob! Not to put to fine a point on it.

For Aids.

Right or left.
===========

Estimated figures for gold selloffs under G Brown have varied from 2.5 billion to 7 billion..

(Depending of times and by whom, the estimates have been made.)

====

Not sure how this will compare with the actions of the present government, especially as our economic guru.

(Made a typing error and that came out as comic guru. Hope, that it was not a Freudian Slip.)

George Osborne is supposed to have said in January 2009 :-

Printing money is the last resort of desperate governments when all other policies have failed

But, subsequent the to the economic slowdown, partially due to lack of confidence in present governments strategies the tune has changed.

----

Let us hope the belated QE bailout of 75 billion which is being printed via the Bank of England under Osbornes and Camerons is not as he first thought.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/search/news/quantitative_easing

------------------------------------------
Chancellor George Osborne supports QE programme

7 October 2011
Chancellor George Osborne backs the Bank of England's decision to pump 75bn into Britain's ailing economy.
------------------------------
7 October 2011
Chancellor says second round of quantitative easing will ensure UK can ride out "worsening global debt storm"
====================================================

Right or wrong next:

The reasons for the selloff of gold appear complex to me and unlike you I have difficulty in understanding all those complexities, the decisions made, the actions taken.

The morality of an amoral market, at the time of the selloff seems to me to me to be questionable.

======

However, the article below, seems to me to be a more reasonable appraisal
of those events, than is generally provided by some of the right wing media for possible political favour:-

You will have to refer to source for explanatory charts etc..

http://liberalconspiracy.org/2010/02/24/why-tories-are-deluding-themselves-over-browns-gold-sell-off/
-------------

Why Tories are deluding themselves over Browns gold sell-off


by Giles Wilkes

February 24, 2010 at 11:45 am

If the Tories had won the 2001 election, would Britains fiscal position been in any better shape? Spending would have been less, but we might have had huge tax cuts instead, a bigger housing boom Or, instead, if they had cut the deficit, would rates have been lower, the housing boom even more out of control?

Only the truly idiotic would think that Brown bringing in the FSA somehow led to the financial crisis. But you still read it from time to time.

However, one piece of counterfactual history is SO easy that the Right can seldom resist bringing it out against Brown, and that is the Decision to Sell the Gold.

Leading from this Times article , Tim Montgomerie at ConHome can barely contain his gloating on the subject (hat tip LeftOutside).

But I think LOs attempt at a defence continued on here on LibCon does not go far enough.

Sure, the money was invested so the loss was smaller. More important is to bear in mind the record of abject failure that Brown had inherited, and was trying to rectify when he ordered that decision.

First, gold earns nothing. In fact, storing it costs money, though I will leave that fact out for my calculations.

Two, since 1979 the price went downhill or sideways therefore losing money compared to any other assets during a great boom for all things from 1982 1998.

Three, gold is normally regarded as an inflation hedge. It keeps its value (caveat: see graph above!). So when things look inflationary, or the value of nominal financial assets looks under pressure (see 2007-9) it rises in value.

Four: the point of central bank reserves is to have something you can sell that has external value. It cant be your domestic currency because you have as much of that as you need. Liquid currency from trusted foreigners will do as well. Like $s.

Five, in 1979, for the first time since the 1920s, there arrived a British government with an absolute intention to kill inflation if necessary by crunching unemployment, high rates and all that. Really determined.

Therefore Geoffrey Howe could have known with great certainty that from Britains point of view gold was going to become less valuable. He might have also thought: if I want to demonstrate my commitment to low inflation (because high inflation has so many temptations), then getting rid of any inflation hedges whatsoever would be a good idea. It would show people I put my money where my mouth is. In fact, a bit like what Brown did.

So. Why didnt Howe sell? And how much did it cost us that he didnt?
I have done the calculations. Really simplifying: the scenarios are (1) 650 tonnes of gold held from 1979 to 2008; (2) What happened: 650 tonnes held, then 400 of those tonnes sold and presumed to be invested in $s at T-bill rates; (3) If Howe had taken the action Brown did and sold 400 tonnes in 1979.

Here is the result I get: To put the figures into context: at about $12bn, in 1979 the 650 tonnes of gold were worth about 3% of Britains GDP. By 1998, they were worth $6bn or so, which would have been worth about 0.4% of GDP at the time ($1.6trn). Had Howe sold 400 tonnes, they would have been worth $28bn, or about 1.75% of GDP. That is a lot to foresake, because of fetish with gold.

Browns current mistake has cost perhaps $7bn by my calculations, to the end of 2008. As someone who used to work in spreadbetting, I find hindsight trading hugely irritating, so taking it far beyond the years he sold it annoys me immensely. Still, lets round it up to $10bn to take the recent uprush into account. By my estimations, that is about 0.4% of GDP. There are far bigger mistakes to make.

I think holding onto 600 tonnes of expensive inflation-hedge while actively trying to kill inflation was a costly mistake of the Conservatives.

Browns error on the other hand looked good for 2-3 years, has cost far less, and at least had the virtue of reason on its side. It is, after all, a barbarous relic and a fixation with gold has cost mankind greatly at crucial times in the past.

Coupled with Georges u-turn on QE is good to see Liam Fox holding an enquiry into his own actions,

To me, it is a little like the Mafia picking the Judge and Jury.

After the above and Cruella and the catflap debacle Dave should show his authority.

Perhaps, he is.

Ps.

Perhaps, Clarke for PM.


8-)

Chris, I think you should climb off the fence and just say how you feel ;)

ptholden - Absolutely, I try to be succinct at all times:O)

Fred

" sticking obstinately to one's own opinion; conceited; " Yes , Fred that's sound's like you .

Out of all the article's criticising Brown selling our Gold , you managed after a long intensive search to find one to suit you argument , well done.

Fred you wrote :
regarding the murder of Joanna Yeates, when I believe you suggested, or, I think more importantly, stated that Chris Jefferies was a pervert.

I doubted, at that time, that the opinion was based on any real knowledge of that individual, or any of his actions. (I may be wrong.)

I believe that Jefferies sued successfully a certain number of newspapers for making similar remarks.

I have not read any withdrawal by you of the remark.


Leading National newspaper's printed that based on information among other sources a couple who rented a flat in his house. I don't know what he sued the papers for but I don't think it was just that , but more likely implying that he left his teaching post for improper conduct.

I was only basing my opinion on what I and ten's of thousand's other's reader's read and heard.

" I have not read any withdrawal by you of the remark." He won his case against the newspapers concerned.

So are you saying all those reader's who were mislead and lied to should withdraw any remark's spoken and printed ?

Aids,

I am not aware of what ten's of thousand's other's reader's read and heard.
However, I would suggest it reasonable for you to obtain information or opinions from more reliable sources and to be critical of the information when you obtain it before broadcasting.

There is such a thing, other than for the gullible, of evaluation of the "facts" as "given". Herding oneself with others does reduce ones responsibility of what you broadcast to others.

Personally, I would be ashamed of myself, if I had stated such an opinion based on the seemingly scant knowledge you had, and then stating it in the manner you did.

I still think that Amanda Knox is guilty. Did you see the TV coverage of her at the airport leaving for home laughing and smiling ? and the difference when she thanked everyone for their support in her home town, what a actress. I may be wrong but its my gut feeling

Re: post 12587

'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean neither more nor less.'

Aids,

Once again, you are entitled to your opinion.

At her age and on being released after 3-4 years in captivity, I can imagine her happiness and that of her seemingly very supportive family.

The decision was based on a court re-evaluation of evidence and having done so, it pronounced her not guilty.

The conclusions, derived by the prosecution from DNA evidence at the time of her prosecution, seemed to many as dubious.

There were many other features of the prosecution's case, which seemed dubious to many, who were not emotionally involved in the case.

MightyMicro

Are you saying Fred is a Dumpty ?

I see F*** is still the main topic of conversation here!
Pity.

World's Shortest Fairy Tale


Once upon a time, a guy asked a girl 'Will you marry me?'
the girl said NO!
And the guy lived happily ever after and
rode motorcycles,, went fishing, sailed boats,
hunted, played golf a lot, drank beer and whiskey
and had money in the Bank and left the toilet seat up
and farted whenever he wanted to.
THE END.

Skinny,

Ah if only I had been that guy.

WHY.

Why, Why, Why do we press harder on a remote control when we know the batteries are getting weak?

Why do banks charge a fee due to insufficient funds when they already know you're broke?

Why is it that when someone tells you that there are one billion stars in the universe, you believe them but, if they tell you there is wet paint, you have to touch it to check?

Why do they use sterilized needles for lethal injections?

Why doesn't Tarzan have a beard?

Why does Superman stop bullets with his chest, but ducks when you throw a revolver at him?

Why did Kamikaze pilots wear helmets?

Whose cruel idea was it to put an "s" in the word "lisp"?

If people evolved from apes, why are there still apes?

Why is it that, no matter what color bubble bath you use, the bubbles are always white?

Is there ever a day that mattresses are not on sale?

Why do people constantly return to the refrigerator with hopes that something new to eat will have materialized?

Why do people run over a string a dozen times with their vacuum cleaner, then reach down, pick it up, examine it, then put it down to give the vacuum one more chance?

Why is it that no plastic bag will open from the first end you try?

How do those dead bugs get into enclosed light fixtures?

When we are in the supermarket and someone rams our ankle with a shopping cart, then apologizes for doing so, why do we say, "It's all right"? Well, it isn't all right, so why don't we say, "That really hurt, why don't you watch where you're going?"

Why is it that whenever you attempt to catch something that's falling off the table you always manage to knock something else over?

Why, in winter, do we try to keep the house as warm as it was in summer when we complained about the heat?

How come you never hear father-in-law jokes?

Do you ever wonder why you gave me your e-mail address in the first place?

And the latest.

Why are government trying to persuade us to pay off our debts AND spend, and HOW are we going to do this with less money.
Also why is further debt bad for us and yet is good for governments.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGnifTXHQOs&sns=em

DID THE QE2 USED TO BE A SHIP THERE HIS TWO AIDS AND FOOD AID GOT 1987 IN MY UK NHS NUMBER ODD WITH 42 TURNED INTO 24 6 TIMES TABLE WITH SOME HOLY WALL SIGNED WFP

LIKE CAPE INTO APE C FOR C@@t

Yes. Really? Really? Cape into ape? Hmmm?

I should go back to the NHS, mate, and complain.

*backs off slowly and quietly*