Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

Its time for your medication Fred . I wish they would take his computer away.

.

The Retail Prices Index (RPI) - which includes mortgage interest payments - rose to 5.6% from 5.2%.

My company pension is index linked up to 5% , but luckily I have no mortgage to pay .

http://news.aol.co.uk/main-news/story/jailed-rioters-from-44-countries/1953977/

Church Bulletins.

The Fasting and Prayer Conference includes meals.

Call me Dave is going to be busy today over Europe and the dissent in his party. I dont like the idea of this 3 line whip.

I say give the people a referendum. I was too young to vote for the Common Market and strikes me it wasnt set up to give away all our powers to Europe.

We need them back.

Im not saying lets get out, Im saying lets get out if we dont get some control back over the running of OUR own country.

Morning Haystack re post 12275.

really!!!


You expect the conservatives to win the next election.

What I see is the return to the dark days of feuding over Europe which has been a noose around the partys neck for years.

I think people are looking for a party to be different, so a slight move by labour to the left could be a good thing for them.

Just my opinion as usual.

Hi Goldfinger,

I would vote in a referendum for the 3rd option of renegotiation, if I thought there was any hope of getting a good deal, but no doubt such renegotiations would result in yet another fudge, whereby we end up with giving away even more that we would receive.

Just finished reading that Mr Cameron is fed up with Alex Salmon and the SNP because they will not come out in the open and name a date for a referendum on Scottish independence.
He (Mr Cameron) stated that the SNP continue to ignore calls to make public the date of the referendum.
He also stated that he wants the Scottish people to be presented with a straight Yes or No vote and that the question needs to be put sooner rather than later.

This of course is the same Mr Cameron that has stated that now is not the time for a referendum on EU membership as this will detract from our efforts to sort out the present EU financial crisis.

So he must feel that a Scottish referendum would not distract anyone from EU matters, presumably because he feels that no one is interested.

But to say that the people of Scotland deserve to be given a date regarding their referendum, and yet denying the UK electorate even the chance to have a EU referendum, even allowing for a none stated date of holding such a referendum, must go down as one of the most hypocritical, none democratic statements ever made by a Prime Minister.
And remember he is using bully boy tactics to deny even elected members of his own government a chance to debate such issues of the referendum on the EU.

In a meeting with my own MP Graham Stuart on Saturday I informed him that I will never again vote Conservative as long as Mr Cameron is leader.

I can also confirm that Graham Stuart will be voting NO in todays vote re holding a referendum.

He also stated that he is in general terms against referendums as he believes that as an elected member he should be allowed to represent the people.
I put it to him that he is not representing the electorate, as it is their wish to hold a referendum on continuing EU membership.
I also said, I agree that it is pointless running a country on a referendum system, but in some cases such as membership of the EU, the people have a right to a say, especially when a government was elected on a belief that such a referendum would be held.
His argument to that was that, Mr Cameron only stated that he would hold a referendum if further significant loss of power is taken away from the UK and that all Mr Cameron had stated was that he had ring fenced any further loss of power away from the UK.

To me Cameron is like a car salesman who has hidden detail in the small print.

I wonder if he is aware of the raw anger out there re this broken promise and the feeling of impotence felt by the general public.

The referendum is not going to happen. There is no appetite for one in the commons. I do think the Conservatives will get in again in four years. By then the economy will be doing fine and people have short memories. Conservatibe government usually have at least two terms in a row and Labour do not.

I agree 100% with you GM.

Cameron for me is just not consistent and above all is just a salesman for his party. Never their when needed aswel, look at the riots, he didnt turn up until day 4.

Hi Haystack,

I feel that a referendum will happen, but not until a new treaty looks likely and that moment is not far away, as any EU fiscal totalitarian system will need such a treaty.

People have had enough, and I just can't see them accepting a new treaty without taking to the streets in massive numbers.
As one who strongly believes in peaceful protests, I am already looking to find such protest groups in my area.
In the past I have traveled twice the 200 plus miles from Yorkshire to London to protest, once even being a member of a group that was allowed into the House Of Commons to lobby several MPs, not that it did any good.
You can only push people so far and I think we are not far from the point of pushing back.
Most people who believe in peaceful protests, believe in democracy, but once that democracy is no longer present, many will extend these protests from peaceful to violent.
I am not such a person, but I am very very angry.

I think you have to distinguish between the opinion of the majority of the population and that of activists. I know that activists often think they represent the view and will of the population, but that is rarely the case.

The silent majority are just that. Protestors occupying the St Pauls area etc have no real meaning for most people. It is just a collection of news items with no long term importance. These demonstrations are not some grass roots movement, but a collection of the usual suspects.

It is not a coincidence that when you see the protests (and I have seen a few at close quarters), the majority of the banners have the captions Socialist Workers Party or www.swp.org.uk printed on them.

It is all best ignored and viewed with mild amusement.

Is America legal?

American lawyers and British barristers have a bit of thresh at deciding who is right:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15345511

And guess what? Well, er, erm.....

The argument could go probably go on for centuries. It's all the fault of James II.

Haystack, strange I thought labour were in power for 13 years last time. Thats two terms isnt it.

I see people taking up places at University is at its lowest for years. I think some of these students wont have such a short memory.

Yes, Labour were in for more than one term, but that was the result of Labour pretending not to be socialist by rebranding itself as New Labour. With the return to more left wing policies it should be the end of that brief love affair with the public.

The drop in UK student applications was 12%. The reported drop of 9% is because foreign students are up. This can only be a good thing. The plan of Tony Blair that 50% of school children should go to university was absurd and has been widely crisicised by academics. The fall should gradually remove many of the silly subjects from universities. Too many kids were going to university that should not have been. It looks like a step in the right direction. Hopefully the trend will continue. Ishould point out that UCAS did say this today "with months before the final application deadline such preliminary figures remain 'unreliable indicators'". The UCAS process has only just started a few days ago.

Haystack,

Like you I have also seen many of these protesters close to and fully agree the vast majority being the usual suspects.
Most of them shout anti-capitalist slogans for the sole reason that most of them, don't work, won't work.
I still feel that the more moderate people are starting to get off their backsides and make a bit more noise.

Basil won't be pleased. Heavy rain in Torquay closes seafront road

I heard his trapped in is car and he has to get back with a replacement birthday cake for the one he sat on.

Agree with Greek 8-)

Cameron is like a car salesman who has hidden detail in the small print.

However, another problem is that he has little grasp of detail and with his introduction of brainless policies he has even less comprehension of overall political strategy.

That is obvious by the increasing number of U-turns, but that is in keeping with his PR background.

============================

(We have a real safe pairs of hands with Osborne and Dave.)

========================

I do feel happy with him representing the UK in Brussels, but keep on expecting him to turn up for media interviews, dressed in a skirt and swinging his hand bag, followed by a group of unwilling bridesmaids.

It is good to see that a PM in a period of economic chaos is standing up for British interests and Independence at the expense of those he may be going cap in hand to later.

That must make good coalition political sense to some.
Threatening to derail further integration and wishing for greater deregulation (at the same time blaming the previous government for lack of financial regulation) is another brilliant strategy.

No wonder Sarkozy was telling him to B. off.

Perhaps, many insular tory MPs would be happier outside the .EU, but so might the EU be happier without the little Englanders.

-------------------

There was a time when Europe "needed", or benefited, by having a the UK in its midst.

Those gains are becoming less obvious to the other members of the EU.

==========================

Hays,

Would you bet on an economic recovery before the next election. I wouldn't and think the middle classes will be still feeling the unnecessary pain this coalition of conmen has put them through.

I would bet on an economic recovery and the pain that the middle classes are feeling is necessary. You only have to look at the 10 year bond yields for different countries to see what the effects of different policies get you. We have the lowest in the EU and Greece the highest. The rest are in between with several much closer to Greece.

Greece 24.5%
UK 2.24%

7% is generally seen as unsustainable