Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

Anyone else thinking the same, or is it just my suspicious mind.

Are the Germans refusing to allow the ECB to step in to defuse the debt crisis purely for their own 'long term plans' and not so much for the effect of what occurred in Germany in the 1930's re printing money which lead to race away inflation.

I have a suspicion that they want the crisis to worsen to the point where it causes several countries to either default or/and leave the Euro zone.
Could it be that they accept that the point of disintegration of the Euro zone is past the point of no return, and therefore knowing that when all the s**t has hit the proverbial fan, less will effect Germany than it will the other Euro zone countries as well as those in the EU but not Euro zone members.
Germany with its lesser beneficial state, higher age of retirement compared to several other EU countries and better geared up manufacturing, worker lead industry, would no doubt recover far quicker that those other countries.
I am of course allowing for the massive almost instant knock that such a disintegration would cause to the EU and most of the rest of the world.
You only have to look how much stronger Germany became after the second world war compared with several of the countries that were supposedly on the winning side.

As to further monetary, political and therefor financial union, I think they know that this will be a none starter, as the Irish, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian and even I suspect the French will not accept it.
So if you know that all the wheels are coming off and there is nothing that you can do to stop it, then the best policy might be to get further away from the inevitable crash that follows, then be the first one to offer help via trade to those who suffer far worse consequences.

After the inevitable break up of the Euro zone as we know it, I am willing to gamble that Germany will recover within 10 years to become even stronger than it is now, with most of the other member countries struggling to catch up, and that goes for other none Euro zone, EU members to perhaps a lesser extent.

Greek.

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Mnamreh,

Fully agree.
I would suspect though that whilst all other countries will when it comes to it, adopt the policy of 'Stuff everyone else, look after ourselves', the forever must follow the rules British will be the ones left without even a ladder to pull up.
Fair play and all that, what old chap.

Of course in years to come, we will look back with pride (and little else) and say that, 'When the Titanic of the EU financial world sank, we were the last to the desert the sinking ship.
What I say is, "Stuff that, lets beat the Germans, French and the others to it"!
We know that the ship is sinking. We are well past the time of water lapping at our feet, so why wait till you are completely under water.

As to taking to the lifeboats, are there any left!

.

"It is such an absurd situation that the lives and futures of so many millions of human beings is subject to the narrow opinions of a few beancounters sitting in rating agency offices, bond trading floors and elsewhere."

I don't see why. If governments want to raise money by selling bonds, they need a market and all markets need traders.

Maybe this mess isn't actually the fault of the banks at all and is instead the fault of the governments themselves who have been squandering the money that the banks have entrusted to them. If they hadn't been frittering it away over the last decade and more, maybe the banks would have retained confidence and would be happy enough to continue buying sovereign debt now.

Fortunately, under the sterling leadership of Cameron and Osborne, the UK are now reining in the purse strings after the last bunch of idiots frittered it away, and our credit rating will be preserved so that we won't find ourselves in the same sad and sorry mess as our European counterparts.

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You can differ all you want, but it's plain old-fashioned common sense that you shouldn't spend what you haven't got. And if you do spend it, and are unable to pay back what you've borrowed, you shouldn't be too surprised when nobody wants to lend you anything ever again.

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That is why a company floats on the market and borrows the money of the new shareholders.

That is why companies have placements,

That is why some farmers are prepared to go into debt to buy a new piece of machinery or other plant in the hope that it will improve his efficiency and profitability.

Get real.

Short term gamblers probably are of little value to the market or themselves.

Capitalism yes, but not based on simple greed and opportunism.

PS.

Is Branson a tory party donor or a friend of Aschroft.

He is certainly not a Virgin.

Hi Hilary,

I agree that it is far more the fault of Governments than banks, but your reply in answer to the comment
'It is such an absurd situation that the lives and futures of so many millions of human beings is subject to the narrow opinions of a few bean counters sitting in rating agency offices, bond trading floors and elsewhere."

'I don't see why. If governments want to raise money by selling bonds, they need a market and all markets need traders', I feel is only partly right.

Reason............Many millions of people are being effected that have 'No say whatsoever' in what happens on the trading floors or any other area of investment or finance.
And with the EU going the way it is, with even more none elected officials calling the shots, the common people have even less say.

Greek.

N,

I don't think the EU will collapse. There will be a reorganisation with increased integration of political, fiscal and foreign and trade policies with France and Germany, Belgium, Netherlands, Portugal at the heart. I think in spite of the present problems, Italy and Spain will probably be included, but there maybe there will be a delay in their unification.

The anti-european emotions are not prevalent in Europe, other than a small minority of right wing groups, who border on the fascist ideology.



The sentiment seems that while Europe has problems, the EU has been beneficial over the last 60 years.


Also, I think the sentiment with the French and German sentiment is that they will be glad to see the back of Britain and will be prepared to protect their own markets against piracy.

Greek,

Of course those millions have a say. Unless they live in Zimbabwe, they will have elected their government. If that elected government has failed to balance their books, then the populace should take it up with their heads of government. It's most certainly not the fault of banks, analysts, ratings agencies, markets, traders or spivs.

There's nothing whatsoever which compels banks or institutions to buy debt, be it sovereign or personal. That's life.

why are people ashamed of there colour it is what makes you what you are black brown pink yellow colour does not matter . if they are ashamed of there colour then blame your mum . all people at one time is called names it is life .
grow up and be proud of your colour .
we all have the same genes

When I think of Cameron and Osborne and the coalition the following remark appears apt.

"I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

Charles De Gaulle (spelling right ?) if only we knew it was a very good friend to us.
2517

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brilliant

One for you Fred - Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.

Skinny,

Are you referring to the coalition's interpretations of data. If so, which departments, or is it all of them. To me, many of the present political "masters", use distortion to avoid their own culpabilities.

By the way, facts are facts and can't be distorted. They may be presented in a different ways.

The inferences drawn, may be distortions of the truth, which is the practice of many of the present political leaders who could have stuck to their original "professions".

========


I cannot see why George looked so happy about the deal he has done with Virgin.

I appears he is selling off the good parts of a company at a loss and keeping the bad parts at an increasing cost to the tax payer.


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