Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

Goldfinger,

I was born and raised in a Nottinghamshire village, surrounded by coal mines.
Many of my friends left school to take jobs down the pit, and often used to talk about their wages and the working day.
Many times in our local pub, I listened to tales of good money (far more than I was earning) being earned for spending less than 3 hours per day on the coal face. My mates often used to say that more time was spent getting ready to go down the pit, traveling there and back, then showering etc than doing the actual job.
Whilst appreciating they should be paid for all the above, it used to annoy me when they would brag about how they could stretch getting dress ready over 30 mins and the same for showering.
The stories of stretching the none coal face time was legendary, with almost a competitive nature.
I well remember that during the miners strike, figures of coal production from other countries, with a far more antiquated coal production method than ours, easily beat our production figures.
So whilst agreeing that Maggie was not always right, in the case of the miners, the antiquated working practices made them none competitive, which resulted in a huge amount of imported coal being used for heating and eclectic generation.
I don't have any figures for the yearly subsidy of the UK coal industry, but I do remember they were huge.
If Scargill who at the time was being paid more than any other union leader had agreed to modernise, then we would still have a coal industry of far bigger proportions than we have today.

As to the Conservatives still blaming Labour, remember that Labour even in their last year of office, some 13 years after the Conservatives were in government were still blaming the last Conservative government for things going wrong.
So whilst I myself am not happy with this government as I feel they are all talk and no action, I feel that they can still legitimately blame the last Labour government for most things quite a while yet.
The mess that Labour left has still not been fully realised.

regards Greek.

Tim.

OK. Referendum. Vote UK out of the EU. and then what for the economy?

Of course, Fortress England and the Empire.


Of course. Scotland, Ireland and Wales devolved and in the EU.

Of course all those Angles, and Sexons etc, should go home.

Bloody foreigners!

Greek,

In my youth I worked underground, but I don't recognise the practices you describe.

We clocked on after changing and clocked off after returning our lamps before showering.#

One of the main reasons for uneconomic pits in the UK was down to geological conditions and width of seams.

Many such pits, were worked out in the world coal economics at that period, unprofitable and had to be subsidised to prevent massive unemployment which may have led to "social" instability.

Governments after WW2 had chances to prepare for the demise of the British Coal Industry, but duck their responsibilities.

Private enterprise did not step in to resolve the problem.


============

I observe the coal industry from more than two sides.

---------

My father was once asked by a self righteous "friend", why the miners only worked 4 days a week, instead of the full 5 days a week.

His reply was because they couldn't support themselves and families on three days and whether their friend would wish to go down the "hole" unless they had to.

-===

PS>

Greek,

Advice to this government should be; "When you are digging a hole and it starts flooding, stop digging and start thinking".

Blaming your parents for your own drowning, is not the answer.

.

Michael Richards, better known as Kramer from TVs Seinfeld does make a good point. This was his defense speech in court after making racial comments in his comedy act. He makes some very interesting points...

There are African Americans, Mexican Americans, Asian Americans, Arab Americans, etc. And then there are just Americans.

You pass me on the street and sneer in my direction. You call me 'White boy,' 'Cracker,' 'Honkey,' 'Whitey,' 'Caveman'... and that's OK..

But when I call you, Ni**er, Coon, Towel Head, Camel Jockey, Beaner, Gook, Paki, or Chink . you call me a racist.

You say that whites commit a lot of violence against you... so why are the ghettos the most dangerous places to live?

You have the United Negro College Fund. You have Martin Luther King Day.
You have Black History Month. You have Cesar Chavez Day. You have Yom Hashoah. You have Ma'uled Al-Nabi.
You have the NAACP. You have BET....


If we had WET (White Entertainment Television), we'd be racists. If we had a White Pride Day, you would call us racists.
If we had White History Month, we'd be racists.
If we had any organization for only whites to 'advance' OUR lives, we'd be racists.

We have a Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, a Black Chamber of Commerce, and then we just have the plain Chamber of Commerce. Wonder who pays for that??

A white woman could not be in the Miss Black American pageant, but any color can be in the Miss America pageant.

If we had a college fund that only gave white students scholarships... You know - we'd be racists.
There are over 60 openly proclaimed Black Colleges in the US .. Yet if there were 'White Colleges', that would be a racist college.

In the Million Man March, you believed that you were marching for your race and rights. If we marched for our race and rights, you would call us racists.

You are proud to be black, brown, yellow and orange, and you're not afraid to announce it. But when we announce our white pride, you call us racists.

You rob us, carjack us, and shoot at us. But, when a white police officer shoots a black gang member or beats up a black drug dealer running from the law and posing a threat to society, you call him a racist.

I am proud.... But you call me a racist.

Why is it that only whites can be racists??


There is nothing improper about this e-mail.. Let's see which of you are proud enough to send it on. I sadly don't think many will. That's why we have LOST most of OUR RIGHTS in this country. We won't stand up for ourselves!

.

What about a Heterosexual pride parade in Brighton every year ? and signing a petition to change the name of Dike road in Brighton.

mnamreh

How many black wives or girl friends have you had , if not why. If your Gay sorry for asking ...... lol

Tim,

"That's why we have LOST most of OUR RIGHTS in this country. We won't stand up for ourselves!"


Just as a matter of interest what do you mean by ourselves?

Strikes me that you are seeing yourself a member of a different group from others around you,

====================

Are you perhaps suggesting, others are inferior or superior to another race or races and therefore it is alright to be prejudiced, discriminate or be antagonistic against?

============

I must admit the uproar around the use of language to identify an individual
when in friendly banter seems absurd to me, except when it is deliberately denigrating, or inciting mob behaviour.

When I was young, I describe a player as like a b. greyhound.

I was inferring that he ran as fast as a greyhound (leaving me behind) and not that he looked like one.

He was very thin and rangy and didnt like it, when my remark was repeated to him.

I dont know, but sometimes I think some are becoming too precious.
============

But, perhaps once again, I am one of the others.

This is me,

I for one have already sent it on to several people.

As to Michael Richards comments that got him into trouble, I have no idea what they were so can't judge.

As to myself, as many know, I was a Police Officer for over 25 years and have come across more racism against me than I can list, but I must mention 1 incident.

As a Police Officer in Humberside, I mainly worked in the north of the county which had a 'very low' number of immigrants, especially during my first few years service.
I had been a Police Officer for around 5 years when I was directed to a street disturbance in Bridlington.
On arrival several youths were fighting.
After parting these youths, one of them, the only black youth of the group would not listen to any warnings from myself and just wanted to continue to fight.
After a final warning, he was arrested.
Immediately he accused me of racism. I remember his words even after all these years, as I have heard them repeated many times.
He said, " Your only arresting me because I'm black".
My reply was, "No, I'm arresting you because you won't listen to reason".
He later made a formal complaint of racism.

Although at the time he was the first black person I had ever arrested, I was investigated for racism and left with the impression that I could have perhaps given him another warning before considering an arrest.
If I had been a probationer (less than 2 years service) I would have been very wary of arresting him as during those first 2 years I could have been dismissed 'without reason'.
I know that the accusations aimed at the Police that they are more likely to pick on none whites to arrest is rubbish.
It is far more likely that they give these people that bit more leeway, as many Police Officers feel that 'It just isn't worth the hassle'.

Edte..........I must add that I do accept there are racist elements in the Police like all organisations, but it is in the minority!

.

N,

It is obvious to me that the majority of us make judgements about each other and discriminate against each other and I certainly attempt to. Sometimes I try to rationalise my conclusions and revalue them, sometimes ending up thinking differently, but feeling as previous.

As usual, when I am confused I resort to the dictionary, in order to try to understand why I am confused about and doing so, found one definition of prejudice as : an unjust or prejudicial distinction.

I think, it is when the prejudicial distinction leads to a unwarranted prejudicial action to another person, group or body, that discrimination is dangerous and then should be considered reprehensible.

I think this could be applied to so called racist remarks.

(edited.)

m - one way of not answering the question is I guess by asking one in return.

Aldwickk will answer for himself, but you just lost the argument.

This thread is busy to-night.

Must be the weather!

Bloody England.

.

M - odd you delete your last three posts? What happened to talk of marriage to Polynesians?

For the UNION knockers.

Im as an accountant well semi retired accountant still having to pay annual fees to the professional bodies of the 4 I passed exams with.

Ive also been a union member whilst with the Civil Service and In the retail industry and can say the fees are far greater than the fees i paid to the unions and not only that but the restrictive practices these professional bodys employ to keep people out and keep salarys high is far greater than any practice the unions used.

I hear its the same in banking and the legal industry.

So please come on lets have some fair play here.

Ohh and second point the reason the car industry went to the dogs wasnt because of the unions it was because management here didnt re-tool/re-capitalise plant and the japs and the germans did, beat us in the race, and at the same time paid relative higher wages. Result lower unit costs and better models.

Its always been the case that the unions carry the can, but british management have a very poor track record historicaly compared to other industrialised nations.

.