any one got a feelling in their water how far LLoyds will go looking to to buy but just dont know when they are low enough

WELL DONE .......... to all those that managed to get in / out ...............
at the right price of course.

You deserve every success.
Amar

Well things are looking better today with the following proposals improving sentiment:-

LONDON, Sept 19 (Reuters) - Euro zone government bond futures fell more than a full point on Friday in tandem with weaker Treasuries on news the U.S. government was mulling a plan to resolve the credit crisis, prompting unwinding of safe haven positions.

Short-dated debt yield ramped up by a sharp 32 basis points in a 20-basis-point flattening of the 2-10 year yield curve.

A congressional aide said U.S. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson has been touting a proposal to lawmakers that would create an entity to deal with the billions of dollars of bad debt still clogging the financial system.

Bunds also felt pressure from news European exchanges had banned short selling of financial stocks, a strategy alleged to have contributed to the wiping out of half of HBOS shares value earlier in the week before rival bank Looyds TSB stepped in to buy it.

The Financial Services Authority published a list of stocks subject to the temporary short-selling ban while the Irish Stock Exchange said it had banned short-selling of several financial institutions [ID:nWLA9900].

Euro zone bourses were expected to open more than 4 percent higher at 0700 GMT. More [ID:nLJ263546].

Bund futures opened sharply lower compared with the settlement close on Thursday.

'Apart from the short-selling rules and the Paulson credit rescue talk, today we have the triple witching effect in the U.S. with the expiry of stock futures contracts adding to the jitters,' said a trader in London. 'We expect more downside for bonds this session.'

At 0641 GMT, the December Bund future was down 104 ticks at 114.24 since the settlement close on Thursday, having opened at 114.54.

The interest rate-sensitive two-year Schatz yield was at 3.90 percent, up 30 basis points. The 10-year Bund yield was up 13 basis points at 4.15 percent.

'Essentially distressed assets would be moved to the balance sheet of a new institution, broadly speaking a dumping ground for the toxic stuff, and will mean the government taking on more of the private sectors mess-ups,' said Padhraic Garvey, a bond analyst at ING in Amsterdam.

'No doubt more pressure too on the U.S. fiscal position in the years to come, and more immediate pressure on the Fed's balance sheet. But less pressure on the US banks, at least that is the idea,' he added.

Other events markets will watch are European Central Bank Executive Board member Juergen Stark speaking at a conference in Rome at 0715 GMT and Italian industrial orders for July released at 0800 GMT. Keywords: MARKETS BONDS EURO

Guscavalier comment: Moving the "toxic waste" to a separate government entity would effectively be a bail out for know and will enable the wholesale funding market to free up, since banks will begin to trust each other again. However, the cost will probably result in weaker dollar. I expect the US money printing machines will glow red hot.

It's interesting to note that Panmure Gordons Sandy Chen, who has been the most bearish of analyist so far, has cut is price target for lloy from 350p to 340p. But has changed is recommendation from hold to buy, saying that funding costs and synergies offer lloy a crucial advantage. And that lloy will have about one third of the retail banking market in the UK, around double that of it's nearest competitor.

It will be a bumpy ride in the short term, but I believe Lloyds will be in a very strong position once markets settle down.

Agree, we need to let time pass as, over the short term, Lloy will be hungry for cash while things are sorted out. Can not understand why they just don't pass the dividend instead of issueing shares since everybody is diluted pro rata anyway. Although, thinking about it again there may be some who will wish to sell the additional shares to receive the cash assuming there will be a commission free service provided to do this.

Time to buy ..?

There all going to rocket tomorrow if U.S vote goes to plan tonite- even if it doesn't and that looks very unlikely it will go through eventually. So its a case of picking the best or most undervalued share - Lloyds or Hbos even Rbs, or why not punt on all three, dead certs as they say !!

anybody who says it is a dead cert on anything in the mkt is asking for one huge fall. Punt on one bank, maybe, but all three. No way!

HBOS is my choice, but thats only at the moment, bought back in earlier so obviously would say that !!

good luck! certainly looking good atm.

I may get in but if I do I would try to take profits before close.

I have far too many dodgy companies atm if it all goes wrong!

We still don't know the terms of the US bail out. i.e how will the various toxics be valued and what future obligations will be imposed on the banks. We are not in the Greenspan era now. Moreover, Bush seems to be trying to place more pressure on Congress by presenting proposals to the Senate first which, could backfire. I would tend to be cautious to see how things pan out at this point.

I have gone short on FTSE. Only trade for me today, have got my bucket under my desk. I think banks will lose their opening gain today.

nordcaperen

I note your post saying that lloy, hbos and rbs are a dead cert, careful with rbs I have just posted what could be the reason for the weakness, incase you miss the thread I have cut and pasted my post below..............

I was thinking of buying RBS this morning, it was the only bank that hadn't gone up, it does seem very weak against the sector. But I had a nagging doubt about buying, but fortunately I remembered that Fortis which was part of the syndicate that grought ABN Ambro had just been rescued.

After checking the news releases today, I then read that the Dutch Finance Ministry are investigating Fortis, looking at risk which wasn't shown on Fortis balance sheet.

I'm not suggesting that RBS may be in the same situation, but this without doubt is what is holding the sp down. So I will sit on my hands for a while, and await a better entry time.

RBS now 168 Not for me

There is a small profit to be made in LLOY/HBOS trading - by buying HBOS instead of whatever you hold in LLOY - but the profit is small and probably not worth the effort if your LLOY holding is less than 5k (now).

From reading the Documents there is a lengthy time when trading will be difficult, (=as the Votes are counted and the Deal goes through) . . . indeed dates go out to Feb09 - so it surprises me this aspect isn't explained in simple language....

The last thing punters need is cash locked-up . . . . . oh deary.

By my calculation, if you have 5K of LLoyds shares, and change into HBOS

You can sell 1975 LLOY at 253p

Buy 2380 HBOS at 144p these will be converted into 1960 LLOY if the deal goes through.

If the deal goes through you end up with the same number of LLOY shares and 1500 in cash.

It seems that many people do not believe the offer will succeed.

The market is certainly saying that unless the terms are sweetened.

Keeps rising like it is (HBOS) and it'll be bidding on Lloyds :-) nice day again !

Shooting up now 272p .

will somone out their if they have the time please explain the diff between shorting and day trading I do a very small bit of buying and selling mainly banks and have done ok I have been away this last week . and what does it mean to the traders that buy and sell in the same day I trade through halifax

mojo, when you short sell a stock, your broker will lend it to you. The stock will come from the brokerage's own inventory, from another one of the firm's customers, or from another brokerage firm. The shares are sold and the proceeds are credited to your account. Sooner or later you must "close" the short by buying back the same number of shares (called covering) and returning them to your broker. If the price drops, you can buy back the stock at the lower price and make a profit on the difference. If the price of the stock rises, you have to buy it back at the higher price, and you lose money.

Day trading is completely different as you will not be 'borrowing' the stock, you will own it until you sell the same day, or at a later date.