Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

This is me,

Great post.
I understood it far better than the gobbledygook that the government put out.

bad news

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17109044

Eurozone ministers back 130bn-euro bailout for GreeceEurogroup chief: "We are making every effort so that a new programme will be a success"
Continue reading the main story
Global EconomyEurope struck by growth slowdown
Germany: Reasons to be cheerful
Timeline of crisis
Eurozone finance ministers have agreed a second bailout for Greece after marathon talks in Brussels.

Greece is to receive loans worth more than 130bn euros (£110bn; $170bn).

In return, Greece will undertake to reduce its debts to 120.5% of its GDP by 2020 and accept an "enhanced and permanent" presence of EU monitors to oversee economic management.

Greece needs the funds to avoid bankruptcy on 20 March, when maturing loans must be repaid.

After five straight years of recession, Greece's debt currently amounts to more than 160% of its Gross Domestic Product.

The euro immediately rose on reports of the deal, which was announced early on Tuesday, after 13 hours of talks.

Repayment takes priority

The deal also means that private holders of Greek debt will take losses of 53.5% on the value of their bonds.

When all the elements of the exchange are accounted for, the loss to investors is expected to be as much as 70%.

Eurozone leaders and the IMF said in October that Greek debt should be reduced to a more sustainable level of 120% of GDP by 2020.

Continue reading the main story
Analysis

Mark Lowen

BBC News, Athens

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is in effect uncharted territory for the eurozone - a managed Greek default, with over 50% of the country's private debt being written off. This was not even being considered as an option several months ago.

But the Greek people will be sceptical about this bailout. The deal that has been agreed will mean more austerity and spending cuts, and even more pain for Greeks. Many will be concerned that the new measures will kill off prospects of growth and lock the country into a spiral of recession.

Greeks say that the country's middle classes who have worked hard and pay their taxes are, unfairly, bearing the brunt of a crisis they did not create. They feel Greece's notorious corrupt politicans and wealthy Greeks who evaded tax are to blame.
The deal provides for the presence of EU monitors of Greece's economic management as some members doubt Greece's commitment to its spending pledges.

Within the next two months, Greece will also have to pass legislation giving priority to debt repayments over the funding of government services.

Athens will also have to set up a special account, managed separately from its main budget, that will at all times have to contain enough money to service its debts for the coming three months.

The Greek parliament is expected to vote on the bailout on Wednesday.

'Significant efforts'
The agreement was announced early on Tuesday by Jean-Claude Juncker, prime minister of Luxembourg and chairman of the eurozone finance ministers group.

Mr Juncker said the "far-reaching" deal would lead to "a very significant debt reduction for Greece" and ensure its future within the eurozone.

He said "the eurogroup is fully aware of the significant efforts already made by the Greek citizens".

But he added that "further major and joint efforts by all parts of the Greek society are needed to return the economy to a sustainable growth path."

Continue reading the main story “
Start Quote
What we had overnight is an agreement in principle, not a final definitive rescue of Greece. Before we crack open the vintage Ouzo, let's just see how it goes down with the relevant private-sector lenders, politicians in the only creditor country that really matters - Germany - and Greek citizens.”
End Quote

Robert Peston

Business editor, BBC News

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greece: Dangerous precedent?
The head of the IMF, Christine Lagarde, who also took part in the negotiations, said the deal "should give enough space for Greece to restore its competitiveness".

Speaking after the deal was reached, Greek Prime Minister Lucas Papademos said he was "very happy" with the outcome.

"It's no exaggeration to say that today is a historic day for the Greek economy,'' Mr Papademos said, according to AP.

The BBC's Stephen Evans in Brussels says the agreement will mean deeper cuts in public spending that Greece had planned.

It also means there should be no default or any knock-on effects in the rest of the eurozone - at least for the moment, our correspondent adds.

But he says big questions still remain - including whether imposing medicine of this harshness will make the Greek economy stronger.

A first rescue package worth 110bn euros in 2010 was not enough to avert Greece's deepening crisis.

Continue reading the main story What went wrong in Greece?

Greece's economic reforms, which led to it abandoning the drachma as its currency in favour of the euro in 2002, made it easier for the country to borrow money.
Greece went on a big, debt-funded spending spree, including paying for high-profile projects such as the 2004 Athens Olympics, which went well over its budget.
The country was hit by the downturn, which meant it had to spend more on benefits and received less in taxes. There were also doubts about the accuracy of its economic statistics.
Greece's economic problems meant lenders started charging higher interest rates to lend it money. Widespread tax evasion also hit the government's coffers.
There have been demonstrations against the government's austerity measures to deal with its debt, such as cuts to public sector pay and pensions, reduced benefits and increased taxes.
The EU, IMF and European Central Bank agreed 229bn euros ($300bn; £190bn) of rescue loans for Greece. Prime Minister George Papandreou quit in November 2011 after trying to call a referendum.
Eurozone leaders are worried that if Greece were to default, and even leave the euro, it would cause a major financial crisis that could spread to much bigger economies such as Italy and Spain.
Under Prime Minister Lucas Papademos, Greece is trying to negotiate a big write-off of private debts and secure a second bail-out of 130bn euros ($170bn, £80bn) before a 20 March deadline.
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NEXT "The funds that are coming in are not staying in Greece, are not being invested in Greece, are not here to help the Greeks get out of this crisis," Constantine Michalos, president of the Athens Chamber of Commerce and Industry, told the BBC.

"It's simply to repay the banks, so that they can retain their balance sheets on the profit side," he added.

Elections ahead

German and Dutch legislators are also scheduled to vote on approval for the deal next week. Politicians in both countries have been critical of lending more money to Greece.

Successive rounds of austerity measures, demanded by Greece's international creditors, have failed to restore growth and have provoked clashes between protesters and police.

The Greek government fell last year after ex-Prime Minister George Papandreou called for a referendum on the eurozone rescue package.

He was replaced by Mr Papademos, an unelected technocrat who is expected to lead Greece until parliamentary elections in April.

Measures passed by parliament last week set out 3.3bn euros' worth of cuts to salaries and pensions, and to health and defence spending - sparking a fresh series of protests.

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legalise cannabis and let users buy from controlled government clinic's and save on police hour's and use the money for tackling hard drug user addict's to kick the habit.

.

I can't remember the source :-

Do you drink to excess?

I drink to anything!

.

Most of those who want milder drugs such as Cannabis legalized, have never dealt with or seen what these drugs can lead to.
Very few druggies start on the heavy stuff, but tend to start on the milder sort.
In my day it was the Purple Heart (LSD) whereas nowadays it is often still the milder type, with only the street names changing. Most are still amphetamines based.
I have seen many results of where these soft drugs lead, and am totally against legalizing them (apart from say cannabis for MS and similar).
I am all for education and drug programs, but they must be enforced with the backup power of the law.
I appreciate that the augment re alcohol prohibitions of the past can be used re the legalization of drugs, but it is generally accepted that sensible, moderate drinking causes no harm and can even be a benefit to health.
The same can't be said about none medicated supplied drugs.

As to saving the Police and courts time, in order so they can concentrate on the more serious drug offenses, you only have to look at how minor none drug related crimes in general are dealt with.

Tap on the wrist for a couple of burglaries, muggings, assaults.
Fixed Penalty tickets for several thefts and the like.

I know that these softly softly aproaches don't work. All they do is encourage those who have 'got away with it' to go onto the more serious offenses.

Too much liberalism in many areas, never works, just look where liberalism has got us to, mind you being too draconian also bears negative results.
A tough middle line approach is usually the best method.

To rule things legal, because the law doesn't work, is the easiest get out in the book.

Purple hearts - black bombers..........

Advice
on where to get them :-)

.

.

The fact is we can't win the war on drug's .... but we can try to take the control and supply of them and the profits from the drug baron's and reduce the crime assorted with the trade by a massive amount. You may say soft drug's lead to hard drug's WHY ? because they are buying soft drug's from the same dealers that deal in hard drug's

.

How long have we been fighting the war on drugs ? and it is a war , how many people have been shot by dealers fighting other dealers. It can only be contained at best not won , how long has America had a drug problem 30 ,40 , 50 or more years ? how long do you want to wait ?

About 1500 years!

Was that the opium wars in China ?

I think (from memory) the Turkish introduced it to China in @the 6th century. The "opium wars" as history defines them, were @1840-60ish? Quite prepared to be shot down here !

Bullet>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Post 14952,

N,

You must be a sensible chap.

You agree with me.
---------

Just had a reflection back to the Shah's period in Iran.

I think I can remember an Iranian saying to me, that the Shah had stamped out drug taking in Iran, by the simple expedient of cutting off the hands of the offenders, if they were caugh and found guilty.
=========
"it is generally accepted that sensible, moderate drinking causes no harm and can even be a benefit to health."

Ummmmmmmh

Where did I leave my liver.

-------------------

Tobacco Smoking.

Ummmmmmh


Moderation in all things.


20-40-60 Gitanes a day!




Defended by the masses until quiet recently.