any one got a feelling in their water how far LLoyds will go looking to to buy but just dont know when they are low enough

why cant they get a bond......norway got 35 billion in bonds i think.....not bad for population of 4.5 million people!

lloy down 4.3% to 164p and hbos down 13% to 63p. The conversion price for hbos should be nearer 98p, what are the market trying to tell us?

lloy ended down 3.6% to 165p and hbos 17% to 60p, the market is saying that lloy will either renegotiate downwards again, or call the whole thing off.

If lloy management want to survive this downturn they must call off this takeover now, that is what the market is shouting at them, and everyone else if they care to listen.

I agree if LLOY go ahead with this deal they will end up as a nationalised bank which is of course exactly what the labour party have been planning all along since they took Northern Rock.

Unfortunately looking at sp movements today and yesterday, it looks like the market is accepting that the deal will go ahead. It always was really, with major institutions having shares in both hbos and lloy.

I just hope the markets can get a little carried away with the lloy sp, so I can exit at decent price.

There has been a recent Sandy Chen update on the merged entity but have lost it, looking at 2.00 in 2009 I seem to remember

I remember Sandy Chen was positive with the takeover on 18th September and had a buy note and target price of 340p for lloy and 232p for hbos. Since then he issued a buy note and price target of 125p for hbos yesterday, but I can't find todays lloy update.

We will have to wait before shareholders see the documentation in November but, imho we will see additional concessions otherwise the sp will not stay above the clawback price.

The sp between the two would still indicate a rebased rate of 0.4 shares at the moment, or it could be some ground given on dividend payments. I understand now why HSBC were only willing to takeover hbos for free.

Hve just found some of todays text from Sandy Chen, see below.

Sandy Chen, an analyst at Panmure Gordon, said, at current share prices, Lloyds would be buying about 20bn of shareholder equity for less than 5bn, resulting in 15bn of negative goodwill.

Under accounting rules, this would need to be recognised immediately on the newly created banks income statement and allow further writedowns to be taken.

In our opinion, what this would represent immediately is effectively 15bn of post-tax capacity to recognise negative fair value adjustments, said Mr Chen.

From a rough perspective, we think this negative goodwill would enable Lloyds HBOS to immediately address a substantial portion of the writedown issues in the HBOS toxic assets and mortgage portfolios, he added.

Mr Chen's view does not change anything the proposed merger is a bail out of HBOS by LLOY. It is quite clear that HBOS cannot survive without either LLOY taking them over or HMG will have to repeat the NRK exercise but on a vastly bigger scale which would probably be unacceptable to voters.

Mr Chen is talking about creative accounting using the Inland Revenue (us the voters) to ultimately pick up the tab.

As a LLOY shareholder I object strongly to this proposed deal, if the directors of LLOY had my and other shareholders interests at heart then they would wait for HBOS to be dismantled and then offer to buy some of the profitable parts of their business and not try to join a "drowniing man".

100% agree Halifax, I couldn't have put it better myself.

Lloyds small shareholders are being shafted big time.

The AGM will be well worth attending for entertainment alone any idea when it is ?

Next AGM is 8th May, but I would have thought there should be a EGM which should produce some fireworks.

Yes it may be a great opportunity to ask (LORD) Daniels why he is ignoring his shareholders and possibly his customers views... I think we already know the answer to that question.

I'll get some nice rotten tomatoes that the slugs didn't munch through in readiness!

thicko here asks, "If the t/o does not proceed, am i not correct in thinking that HBOS will be nationalised and therefore the shareholders will get zilch? ..... if that is true, then HBOS shareholders should be thankful to get anything, albeit that LLOY will have picked up a diamond for half-a-crown"

I'm sure thats right that hbos would be nationalised if the takeover fails, because the Government would have a majority shareholding. Unless another bank wants to take them over, unlikely imo.

seems that the boys have been able to get the sp nicely above the clawback price and the Board will be hoping for a good take up by existing investors. The less that the Gov acquires, the better from the point of view of paying off the preference earlier and thus resuming dividend payments. This will all help short term sentiment.

Even though I would have rather have seen lloy exit this takeover, I will take up my allocation of shares at 173.3p. The more shares holders take up, the less of a holding the government will have. If anyone has doubts to how the government could dictate to the board the way they run the company, then the threat from the French government the their banks yesterday should act as a warning.

French government have said that unless the banks lend more money to business in need they will take their stake away, which is between 5 and 10%. I agree that banks need to support good business, but this could be a early indication to the direction the UK government will take.