Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

No problem. Maybe he will take in Tony Blair later! :o)

I wouldnt really call him exotic Kim ,a prick yes ,exotic no.

Sorry Jimmy, mixing up quixotic with exotic! :oD

Kim,

The description fits Tony (teflon) Blair better than the meerkat,

He won the hearts of everyone in Morley (West Yorks) with his exploits, his bright inquisitive eyes and little chirrups. Being very tame (tamed by peter Mandelson), he was taken on school visits and to meet the residents of local care homes.

Although I do find meerkats more endearing than TB. Perhaps in the future they hopefully will become extinct, not meerkats obviously.

Greek.

Lol Greek!

How do you tell the difference between a UK Police Officer, an Australian Police Officer and an American Police Officer?

By posing the following question:

Scenario Question:

You're walking down a deserted street with your wife and two small children. Suddenly, a dangerous looking man with a huge knife comes around the corner, locks eyes with you, screams obscenities, raises the knife, and charges. You are carrying a Glock .40, and you are an expert shot. You have mere seconds before he reaches you and your family. What do you do?

Scenario answer from a UK Police Officer:

Well, that's not really enough information to answer the question! Does the man look poor or oppressed? Have I ever done anything to him that would inspire him to attack? Could we run away? What does my wife think? What about the kids? Could I possibly swing the gun like a club and knock the knife out of his hand? What does the law say about this situation? Does the Glock have appropriate safety built into it? Why am I carrying a loaded gun anyway and what kind of message does this send to society and to my children? Is it possible he would be happy with just killing me? Does he definitely want to kill me or would he be content just to wound me? If I were to grab his knees and hold on, could my family get away while he was stabbing me? Should I call 9-9-9? Why is this street so deserted? We need to raise taxes, have a paint and weed day and make this a happier, healthier street that would discourage such behaviour. If I raise my gun and he turns and runs away, do I get blamed when he falls over running away, knocks his head and kills himself? If I shoot him, and lose the court case does his family have the opportunity to sue me, cost me my job, my credibility, and will I lose my family home?


Scenario answer from an Australian Police Officer:

BANG !


Scenario answer from an American Police Officer:

BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! click... (sounds of reloading) BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! click.
Daughter: "Nice grouping dad, were those the Winchester Silver Tips?"


"Political Correctness" is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." So there !

And if he was drunk, stupid, shouting for his lost dog and didn't understand you, but was carrying a wooden table leg wrapped in brown paper, which you had confused for a gun would you consider the Austalian or American's action justified?

For some life is so simple.

This_is_mewas I Metropolitan police?could be a different answer?beat me to it Fred

I remember when a migrant worker from Lithuania whos severed head and hands were found on a Scottish beechthe Police stated that they were treating the discovery as suspiciousloljust a guessbut I dont think it was natural causesand she wouldnt be needing Injury Lawyers for you!!what a World we live in

And not so good if you are a Brazilian plumber

This_ is_ me, I think you have watched too many Clint Eastwood films.

He thinks Dirty Harry is a porno star!

This is me,

As a retired Police Officer, I find your post very funny, but depressingly with a ring of truth.
During the end of my career I had many a run in with senior officers due to the fact, that myself and my section were very rarely allowed to use common sense.
Often a situation was calming down and starting to run smoothly when a senior officer would turn up and it would then go back down hill.

Must though take Fred1new to task. As a Trained Firearms officer I have been in a few situations were instant on the spot life and death decisions had to be made.
I would defy anyone given a possible genuine firearms incident to identify a firearm from most replicas. Even in a classroom, if someone pulled out a replica and pointed it directly at you, most would not be able within a split second to differentiate between the replica and a real firearm, and a slit second is all you get. In the cold light of day (in good daylight) a chair leg is easily identified. In the dark even a chair leg wrapped in brown paper, especially if pointed toward you could easily be mistake for a shotgun.

As for Jean Charles de Menezes (the Brazilian Plumber), obviously an almighty cock-up, but by the commanders not the Firearms Officers. If I had been given the info they received I would have done exactly as they did. If you think a person is an armed terrorist, possibly wired you just cant take a chance.
These officers will have to live with what they did.

Not having a go, but as someone who has been in such a position feel I am well qualified to give a point of view, I must admit that it does get to me when those who have not criticise those who do the job (as said but worth repeating, it was a cock-up).

In summing up. The Police Service (not allowed to call it a force now) is
in an almighty mess mainly due to it's chiefs/politicians and health and safety. For all of my service I took as little notice of all three as I could get away with.
Due to this I almost had my own chair in D+C (Discipline and Complaints).

Well said Greekman! I agree totally. Would imagine 'The Ways And Means Act' consigned to history now, pity cause it was just the application of common sense, an attribute senior officers (especially the Brams Hill Dickheads) completely lacked and as a consequence made situations worse.

The Brazilian plumber was in the country illegally, a fact most people overlook. If he had left when his visa expired he would still be fixing pipes today

Seems like a reasonable punishment.

DCB. I quite agree.
Proportionate punishment!

Of course, if I see you speeding I have your permission to shoot to kill?

The guy was harmless and sitting on a seat in an underground train.
=============

Greek,

I dont think that the police have an easy job.

Also, in general in this country, I think they carry out their responsibilities and duties in difficult times with great skill and care.
Some are occasionally more abrasive than necessary, but again when dealing with the fickle general public I can understand why.

From minor dealing, or contacts with European police, I have a similar respect of them.

However, amongst all professions there are bound to be bad pennies, who are prepared to step beyond acceptable limits.

Also, some will react to situation with less than adequate thought to consequences.

I also recognise the difficulties in making decisions in life threatening situations, but even these are not general needing reflex responses. There is usually time to assess the situation with reasonable care.

(At some time in their life, the majority of professionals and "ordinary" people in general, will have to deal with life threatening incidents in their lives and the majority of time they act appropriately. Mistakes can be made by all. )

(The police have to consider the likely danger to the public, themselves and also the person who they are apprehending.) (Danger, or damage to property, should be of lesser concern, unless damage to property will in itself endanger life.)

The force used has to be proportionate to the risk or danger.

In the majority of situations, there is time to assess the dangers before acting. I dont consider this to always be possible.

In America, it seems to me, there are peculiar problems of culture and an added problem of the availability of high powered weaponry as well as the smaller arms..

Personally, in the present period, I would not like to have the responsibilities of the police, but I would not like to have pulled the trigger and kill somebody, who was non compos mentis, because he was waving a plastic replica of a gun.

I am not saying it easy to identify the validity of the weapon, or that I wouldnt pull the trigger.

If I did so, I would expect the action to be investigated, evaluated and lessons if any learnt.


==================

The Jean Charles de Menezes case the mistakes seem to have been made at ground level. Initially, the problem seemed to have been from mistakes in surveillance, possibly/probably, he could/should have been apprehended at the flat, or on his journey to the Underground Station.

I think the chain of command and passing of information should have been and probably was evaluated after the debacle.

The following removal of Sir Ian Blair from his position by Boris, was a completely political assassination and very threatening to the future independence of the police.

GreekFred has just saved me the job of writing a long explanationI pretty much echo his views right up until the last two linesmy views on Ian Blair could not be repeated on these BBs
I know you are a retired Police Officerand I thank you for protecting the public and myself for all those yearsyou are appreciated by all good citizensI also pretty much agree on Chris Carsons takecast your mind back to Blairs initial statement on the Menezes incidentit could have been written by the Monty Python teamI am personally relieved Menezes did not put up a struggleI hate to think what would have happened to the poor bloke if he had?

Exec: re your post 8036 (sorry, only just seen it)

433MHz is used for all sorts of things, including Amateur Radio. The primary user of the band (70cm) is the MoD, secondary allocation is to Radio Hams, and then type-approved devices such as car remotes, wireless home burglar alarms, your weather station etc.

The output of our local Ham radio repeater at Bracknell (GB3BN) is exactly on 433MHz.

The problem arises not because of exact frequency clashes but because the receivers simply get saturated with signal energy from closely adjacent frequencies and 'go deaf'.

There's nothing you can do about it. Weaker batteries in your weather station won't help.

Tabs,

The statement of Ian Blair at the time of the JCDM shooting was based on information supplied to him from a chain of command from those at operational level.

You may think that it would have been more reasonable to have awaited further information, or vetted the information given to him differently, but it does depend on the trust you put on your colleagues.

Blair, was responsible for policy and only to a minor part in the implementation of the policy.

If you are measuring him on other actions and policies that is a different matter.

Perhaps, you are referring to the London riots 2009 and their management, if so, a large amount of the problem there was the implementation of crowd control techniques by some aberrant officers.

Again I would not like to be trying to manage those situations.

Fred - Your last statement (Again I would not like to be trying to manage those situations.) The Metropolitan Police are well trained and have a vast experience of crowd control, but they are human and they suffer the same emotions as everyone else ie FEAR, they are in the front line and have to be seen to deal with the situation or situations as they happen and to their credit they get it right 99% of the time. Unfortunateley that doesn't get reported, not newsworthy and the media don't make any money and sell papers. They focus on an incident that occurred when a guy who was wandering around appearing to be either Ill, high on drugs or possibly even drunk was pushed by a big bad Policeman. Not defending the big bad Policeman, just questioning his motives and maybe thinking If I had been continually spat at, punched,kicked in the goolies, shins, had numerous objects thrown at me not to mention verbal obscene abuse continually for 3 or 4 hours would patience be one of my strong points? I don't know either!