Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

Greek,

I am always interested in roguery.

This latest political spat on crime statistics is interpretation.

Collecting and correlation of statistical data can be a nightmare, especially when entities and groupings are often redefined. (Hopefully, to make the conclusions clearer and more relevant.)

(You can ask one of my daughters who correlated 10years of medical data. Longest two years of her life.)

Looking at the charges being made. it would seem to me to the tip of iceberg.

Why are numerous "claims" of a similar nature not pursued.

Julie Kirkbride's husband Andrew Mackay resigned as David Cameron's aide after it emerged that the two MPs were making claims that meant they effectively had no main home but two second homes, both funded with public money. She claimed 1,000 to pay for computer equipment bought by her brother, who lives rent-free at her 'second home'. On May 28, said she would stand down at next election but did not apologise for her claims.

Bill Cash claimed more than 15,000 in taxpayer-funded expenses to pay his daughter rent for her west London flat even though he owned a home closer to Westminster. He has promised to repay the money and said he hopes to remain an MP

What this fellow's post?


Chris Grayling claimed for London flat despite nearby constituency home: MPs expenses

Chris Grayling, the shadow home secretary claimed thousands of pounds to renovate a flat in central London bought with a mortgage funded at taxpayers expense, even though his constituency home is less than 17 miles from the House of Commons.


By Holly Watt and Gordon Rayner
Published: 7:15AM BST 11 May 2009
Chris Grayling: MPs' expenses
Chris Grayling, the Shadow Home Secretary, has his constituency in Surrey Photo: PA

Mr Grayling, who represents Epsom and Ewell, lives in a large house in Ashtead, Surrey, but also claims expenses for a flat in Pimlico, near the House of Commons. Mr Grayling also owns other buy-to-let flats and now has four properties within the M25.

The disclosure is particularly embarrassing for the Conservatives as Mr Grayling is the partys attack dog who has criticised a series of Labour ministers implicated in sleaze scandals.


Within weeks of first being elected in 2001, he bought a flat in a six-storey block for 127,000. In 2002, he set up an unusual arrangement with the Parliamentary Fees Office, claiming 625 a month for mortgages on two separate properties, both the main home and the new flat in Pimlico. This is usually against the rules, but Mr Grayling negotiated an agreement because he was unable to obtain a 100% mortgage on the London flat that he had bought.

This arrangement ended in May 2006.

Over the summer of 2005, Mr Grayling undertook a complete refurbishment of the flat. Shortly after the general election in May, Mr Grayling claimed 4,250 for redecorating and 1,561 for a new bathroom.

The next month, he claimed 1,341 for new kitchen units and in July, he claimed a further 1,527 for plumbing and 1,950 for work that included rewiring the flat throughout. It is thought to have risen substantially in value since then.

During the 2005-06 financial year, Mr Grayling claimed close to the maximum allowance for MPs.

However, in the following financial year he continued to submit receipts for the work that had been carried out the previous year.

This effectively allowed him to spread the costs over two years whereas he would have been unable to claim all the costs in the 2005-06 financial year. For example, in June 2006, Mr Grayling submitted an invoice for 3,534 for service and maintenance on his block of flats, which included a service charge of 1,148 and a balance brought forward of 1,956.

This was paid by the House of Commons authorities in the 2006-07 financial year, although the invoice refers to Tax point: 22 Feb 2006 and refers to costs carried out in the 2005-06 financial year.

A handwritten note on the invoice informed the fees office to Please note this has only just been issued, date notwithstanding.

In July 2006, Mr Grayling submitted a claim for 2,250. The invoice from the decorator was dated July 2006, and referred to remedial and refurbishment works July 2005.

On the claim form, Mr Grayling stated: Decorator has been very ill & didnt invoice me until now.

If the various late receipts had been submitted in the 2005-06 financial year, they would have exceeded Mr Graylings second home allowance for the 12-month period by over 4,700.

However, they were still paid by the Fees Office.

Mr Grayling has a sizeable property portfolio. The Pimlico flat, which is only a short walk from the Commons is believed to have risen in value despite the recession. A studio flat in the same block is currently on sale for 235,000.

On the Parliamentary register of interests, Mr Grayling declares that he rents out two further houses that he owns in London.

The family home he shares with wife Sue and their two children in Ashtead is inside the M25 and in the heart of Surreys commuter belt. The imposing house with its sweeping drive and grounds cost 680,000 in 2000.

Mr Grayling defended his claims last night and said that using one of his existing properties would not have saved the taxpayer money. I needed two loans to buy my London flat in 2001, he said.

One was the standard maximum loan available for a second property and the second was to pay for the 20 per cent deposit. In addition to serving my constituents, I have spent several years serving in the shadow cabinet, currently as the shadow home secretary.

===========================


I am beginning to believe there are less criminal in Pentonville than our HPs.

And some criticise the Italian Mafia (Government). under Berlusconi. The almost seem squeaky clean.

Bit disappointed to see Dennis Skinner on the list, even for modest amount. I would have put money on the beast of Bolsover being squeaky clean, even though I do not agree with most of his politics. Thought George Galloway spoke a lot of good sense on Question Time last night, particularly the suggestion that we should halve the number of MPs.

Fred,

I hope there are more prosecutions to come, but apart from the one still being considered I doubt it. My feeling is that there is no one with the bottle to go for the jugular of this corrupt mess and they have taking the four mentioned as an attempt to placate the electorate. Well it ain't placated me, although I must admit to punching the air a bit. As you rightly state, there are many more out there where the evidence looks to be sufficient to prosecute for fraud.
I have known several cases where a person has been prosecuted for fraud (usually false accounting) where it can be shown that they have made far few false claims than many MPs.
Also when employees are dismissed due to fraud, mainly in the public sector they loose their private pension rights, only receiving the contributions personally made.
I bet this does not happen to any MPs found guilty.
Also many employees who commit fraud, where it is not deemed prudent to take them to court due to perhaps the committing of a single offence are dismissed, also loosing pension rights. This is common practise in those employees holding positions of trust. I know of at least two Police Officers who fiddled their expenses, one gaining less than 100 who were dismissed loosing their pension rights.
Also a common prosecution taken against people in positions of public office is that of Misconduct In Public Office, which again is an offence that several Police Officers have been prosecuted for.
If you wish to peruse the link, I think most will agree there are many MP that fit into this category.
So why is this not happening to our Honourable (sic) Members of Parliament.

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/l_to_o/misconduct_in_public_office/

partridge,

Yes I think the number of MPs should be halved. Get rid of that load of tory mobsters.

Actually, have some time for Galloway. Think he is a little bit of a rogue, but does have a gift for the right turn of speech and a sense of humour.

Surprised at his opinion on "assisted suicide".

Greek I agree with you.

Copied.

I can understand when one buys a house and then downsizes or upsizes over a period of years and it is the only house you have that you don't have to paid Capital gains. In general quiet sensible.

However, if a person is "flipping" a house 5 times in a few years and making 300,000 I would think this amounts to treating properties dealing as a business and therefore taxable as a business.

But look around at BAE.

We criticise Iraq, Pakistan; Afghanistan etc.

Perhaps, we should have a complete clean up first in the Uk.

Fred,

Always looked at flipping as a legal, but immoral fiddle, but never thought if it as a business angle. Good point.

What we need is the HMC to act, they are very quick to jump on ordinary folk and they don't except excuses.

MP Jim Devine said today that he was "astonished and devastated" to be charged over his claims for parliamentary expenses.
What he really meant washe was "astonished and devastated" to be caught

For once Tabby, I entirely agree with you :)

Regarding Skinner.

Again he has amused me for years.

From Miiror.
Not sure of validity

Why I'll always take Dennis Skinner over expenses sinners

By Brian Reade 2/04/2009

Whenever I write that Dennis Skinner should be taken seriously as a politician, I'm attacked by New Labour acolytes who say he's a hard-left dinosaur whose views will never be accepted by the electorate.

Well, see what you think. Last year on the list of MPs' expense claimers, Skinner came 657th, taking 121,000 less than the biggest claim.

That put him second to bottom, which annoyed him, as he is usually bottom.

Whenever I met him as a journalist he insisted it wasn't in a pub, in case my buying him a drink compromised him.

He won't join in Commons "pairing" - opposing voters agreeing neither of them will turn up - because he sees it as a way of letting MPs get richer through working on the side.

And he doesn't own a passport in case he succumbs to the temptation of a foreign junket.

Tabs,

What gets up my nose, is that these Silly Buggers are claiming "naivety", lack of knowledge, didn't "consider it wrong", "accountancy mistakes."

There may be a few innocent mistakes (or somebody else submitting the accounts), but I think the rest are psychopaths and these upright pure "legislators" are able to lead us into unnecessary wars and set themselves up for future earnings.

I can understand how it occurred, but some of the B.s set themselves up as examples and club together to defend their positions.

The problem is, I think the four who are charged are being sacrificed by the majority.

If they try to get away with parliamentary privilege, I hope they all "hang".

I can't see that they will be able to get away with that plea as the "acts" as the acts are outside the HOUSE.

Fred - we agree that half should go, but not sure they should all be tory mobsters, unless like many (probably including aforementioned Skinner) you put "new Labour" in that category. About 150 from each main party and a few Libs as well would do for me. While we were at it, we could get rid of all of Gordon's quangos and pay the national debt down in double quick time. And how I dream of a future Chancellor saying that the police budget will be cut over time by 90% because there is virtually no crime....Better stop taking these pills.

Just wondering, whether big business corrupts government, or government corrupts business.

Consider Goldsmith and BAE. what example to business and the rest of the country.

Only thing to admire is the brazenness of both.

It seems to be what you can get away with which counts.

The values of the psychopath.

Money corrupts both. Barter had a lot to be said for it.

"7.99 all-you-can-drink student night running every Monday and Wednesday at Groove in Gold Street, Northampton."

See http://www.itsgroove.com/northampton

Not wishing to be a spoil sport and all that, but I'd like to see this place lose its licence.

Anyone else got any comments?

eg,

"I would not park my car outside that place!"

"Don't go near that place at the weekend if you fear for your personal safety!"

.

Another honest copper

Metropolitan Police Commander Ali Dizaei has been sentenced to four years for assaulting and falsely arresting a man in a dispute over 600.

From the Heathrow BA plane crash report:

"The AAIB report said: "Certification requirements, with which the aircraft and engine fuel system had to comply, did not take account of this phenomenon as the risk was unrecognised at that time."

The report added that research in the 1950s had identified the problem of ice formation in fuel systems from dissolved or trapped water, but it did not identify that it was possible for accumulated ice to restrict fuel flow."

I am astonished that the commercial air industry claim not to have recognised the possibility of icing in fuel systems; the military have been using FSII (fuel system icing inhibitors) for yonks, in fact if the FSII level drops to an unacceptable level the fuel isn't even issued to an aircraft. Amazing

I found the following:

"It was the biggest shock in my life, when I realised how horrible, soulless and without feeling the five star lifestyle is," he said. "In those three weeks, we spent all the money you could possibly spend. But in all that time, we had the feeling we hadn't met a single real person that we were all just actors. The staff played the role of being friendly and the guests played the role of being important and nobody was real."

Hmmm? I think I can empathise with that. Whenever I've done five star, I feel the same. I think that's why I always prefer to stay three or four star.

There must be tons of very rich, very unhappy people out there, don't you think?

Fully agree, but I bet there are far more unhappy poor people.

My dad had many sayings, one was its always better to be rich and unhappy than poor and unhappy.

They also say that money can't buy you health. But if you are wealthy there is often a better chance of a healthier life, and better health care when you do need it.

It also may not buy you love, but just look at all the gorgeous sexy women who are coupled with plain ugly men who have money, appreciate the reverse can be said of rich ugly women and good looking blokes, but not to the same extent.

How many of us blokes have had fantasise of being mega rich and having the pick of the fairer sex.

No wonder the rich and famous have problems re sexual exploits, it must be very difficult to turn down some of the offers they get.

Any other male chauvinist pigs out there.