Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

On the cop side of things, instead of requiring each arresting officer to complete the entire lengthy process of the court file etc, why not have a dedicated team who complete the file for the arresting officer, all he need do is book the crim in with the custody officer, complete his statement and hand it over to the team, and back out again.
2517

George,

Re prison sentences, well said, couldn't agree more.

As to dedicated teams dealing with prisoner processing, it is a great idea that was tried and dropped in our force. The reason was, a few officers (the lazy ones that I would not pay in washers) used the system by putting in the paperwork/arrest statements, witness statements (which you require to a minimum in order to authorise detention) required on arrest with so many omissions or/and of such poor quality, they had to be re-done by the File Team. The answer you would think was a good swift kick up the a**se with discipline following if such shoddy work continued.
Well believe me I tried it, but with no backing by more senior officers, you get nowhere. So the idea was dropped as these officers would then have no way to put in shoddy paperwork as supervision would send it back.

There are 2 main reasons why crime etc is not being tackled correctly.

Political interference (too many laws, too many forms) and old fashion discipline within the force being almost none existent. It is almost impossible to get rid of an incompetent officer.

Fred,

Whilst I agree that the Policing methods leave a lot to be desired, they are in no way responsible for the imprisonment of offenders or reparation orders and actions are so difficult to enforce. The restrains put on Police was yet another political restriction that wound me up. My brother watched police type fly on the wall programmes (I don't) and he is often moaning about the punishments offenders get. How do you think Police Officers feel when all their work comes to nothing more than a slap on the wrist.

As for vigilantes, on the whole dangerous as many innocent people would suffer, but and thats a big but, there are many times when the best deterrent in a really bad trouble spot is when either an individual or a group have had enough and dealt out their own punishment. The times I have listened to complaints from low lifes, that they had been beaten up by often reasonable people and they want something doing about it.
Of course we put just as much effort finding the culprits as we would someone who beats up an old lady. Well thats the official line anyway.

The problem I have is there is only one deterrent for crime.frightening punishment!.Britain has massive scale petty crimeshopliftingcar theftsmall fraud.as well as street-freak booze and drug pestsand so onover the years our jails have been used as a short sharp shock for such crimeunfortunately todaythere is now only room for serious offendersmurderarmed robberyterrorism.rapeand severe drug and human trafficking it is common knowledge that judges will no longer give custodial sentences for petty crimemaking Britain an International haven for non violent small organised crimeyes the whole World of scumbags loves our Countryeven corner shops can sell counterfeit goodsincluding fags and boozeand then only receive a few months ban on sellingwe are also getting vast amounts of counterfeited medical drugs entering the country credit cards are being cloned by two or three member gangswith the knowledge that they will most likely get deportedor at worst18 months down to a year insidewhere they will be looked after in their own Country there would be a good beating for surefollowed by a good stretch or worse?then our Government wonder why so many foreign Gypsies Tramps and Opportunist come to Britainwhere there is a bail-out plan in place if the worst should happen with free deportation if caughtand for 500 poundsyou can be back in Britain within a week on false papers and passportand continue to make your 10,000 a weekgetting caught is just a miner irritant to those involvedthere is only one answer as I see itmore Policemore Jailsno deportation until the sentence has been served much long sentencesand all wealth confiscated from these scumbagsany do-gooders choose to step inmake them their social workers and deport them as well
Off for a large drink nowas I have wound myself up.toddle pip

Tabasco,

Fully agree. Seen many a youngster starting to go off the rails. All for a giving a chance or even 2 if deserved, but not time after time.
The first time they are arrested, they are usually terrified, then nothing happens, second time a verbal warning, third, forth, fifth probably a written caution, so they end up not bothered because little happens. So it continues until they end up in court, and the fear returns, until yet again a warning followed by a fine, then community service (which many don't turn up for and are let off) eventually a sentence that is suspended, so by the time the are sent down, they have lost all fear of punishment.

I have heard many times the comment, 'Why waste time locking me up, knowt will happen'. You get the point.

Enjoy your drink, but remember your alcohol units (sorry couldn't resist).

Greekman - Lets be honest the jobs fucked and has been for years!

Chris,

I agree with you, just trying to say why it is so.

Just heard on the news that the MP'S who appeared today at court asked if they could be excused of appearing in the dock to 'Save Their Dignity'

What dignity, they don't have any.

Their request was refused.

Hopefully we get a change of govt. and the true crime figures will be published, maybe then more police will be recruited and prisons built, if pigs could fly? No pun intended (honest) :o))

Hi Chris,

No prob, been called far worse.
In fact one of my most treasured mementos from my service, is an ornament of a pig in full police uniform.

Greek - :o))

Greek, I was taking the mickey!

Also, I admit I don't like the way society seems to be deteriorating.

There are groups in society alienated by the society they are members of and alienating of that society.

Both groups are failing one another.

The custodial laws have evolved over a period of time and generally were attempting to enable management of prisoners in custody.

I believe a period of restriction is indicated for some types of crime.

Attempts to "reform" recidivists should be made.

Not all said "recidivists" return to prison, some are reformed.

Giving somebody a kick up the arse, puts the donor on the same level as the receiver.

Many of the recidivist have had their arses kick all their lives and are only to willing to give others the same lessons.


Think of that attitude when it was applied to "niggers" down south in America with shouts of that will sort them Bs out.

The problems are huge but as stated early solutions are more difficult.

PS.

When reforming the criminals is successful. it is cheaper than teaching them to repeat their stupidities. To do it more frequently requires better trained prison staff, probation officers and social workers etc..

To attract more capable individuals that requires better pay.

That means higher taxes, so get ready to "hug a hoody" and pay more taxes.

Higher taxes on trading and gambling.

Fred,

You said, 'Greek, I was taking the mickey! OK I missed it, got too wound up.

My comment, 'The answer you would think was a good swift kick up the a**se' was a metaphorical comment' and was referring to lazy, useless Police Officers. As to reforming criminals, yes it can work but it has to be done early on, once they become hardened in the system it rarely works.
Punishment must come first, as someone said earlier, until punishment is feared the crime rate will never fall.

The following was correct 10 years ago.

Of interest the priorities for the prison authorities are.

1 rehabilitation.
2 protect the public.
3 punishment.

It should be punishment first, and until it is the public will suffer.

I have been in several prisons, the most modern being Full Sutton near York. This prison has state of the art Gyms, 2 football pitches (it could be 3 memory not sure), sports hall, games hall with pool/snooker/etc. There is colour TV with satellite, with many having such TV in their cells, and many other Hotel type facilities. And they never have to wait for doctor/dentist appointments.
Whilst I appreciate you can't have prisoners sitting in their cells all day, why should some have far better facilities than many people on the outside.

Christhe job is fcukedbut then so was most Banks a few years agothe Government choose to rectify their problems with shedloads of dough allowed them to gamble again with our moneyand mysteriously forgot to write in clause *** No Bonuses!!! And yet again our ever caring Banks were the winners
On the other hand here are a few Government plans on a cross section of our Countries Police Forces.during the bailout time:-

Britain's overfilled jails are at 'panic stations' as they lurch from crisis to crisis, the chief inspector of prisons warns in an Observer interview today that will make uncomfortable reading for the government.

Cash crisis claims over rookies
ROOKIEpolice officers are showering in the dark because a training college is so short of cash, it was claimed yesterday.

Affairs Correspondent, BBC Look East
Cambridgeshire Police Chief Constable Julie Spence has warned a shortage of money is threatening front-line services and could ultimately mean officers turning up late to a critical 999 call out. But she claims this has been compounded by a shortfall in the police budget and a growing population.

EXCLUSIVE Police chiefs told to make efficiency savings Government wants 1bn cut to ease crunch
Bobbies on the beat could be axed as ministers demand 1billion police cutbacks.

Police fear funding cuts will hit hardest on the front line Feb 15 2010
FRONTLINE policing across Wales could be scaled back as a result of Government efforts to tackle Britains record budget deficit,

Defence chiefs are considering cutting numbers of the specialist police who guard military facilities including the UK's nuclear deterrent, an industry leader warned today.

POLICE cash cutbacks could mean the loss of more than 50 frontline officers in Gloucestershire as the government tightens its belt.

The chief of Strathclyde Police told employees yesterday to prepare for major cuts to plug a 16 million black hole in the forces budget for next year.

The secretary of South Wales Police Federation has accused politicians of hypocrisy over criticism of a decision to close inner-city police stations.
South Wales Police announced it was shutting the four stations in Cardiff as part of savings to meet a 6.7m shortfall in their budget.
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So yes Chris the job is fcuked.our Police Force were obviously not too big to fail?

tabasco - Absolutely! We can only hope a change of Govt. will change this. Holding our breath I don't think so!

Like Private Frazer says from Dads Army, 'Doomed we're all doomed'.

During which period in recent history do you think the police and prison services working efficiently?

The dark ages. Plus when they had the ducking stool for misbehaving wives. Now that would be a vote winner.

But seriously, the Victorian times were far too barbaric and full of injustice. The problem is like most things that are wrong in life we have now gone too far in the other direction. My view is that once in prison you should be fed just sufficient basic food to keep you healthy. Only water to drink and very limited entertainment, a radio perhaps. If prisons had these conditions, sentencing could be reduced for many offences (not the most serious) and the effect on prisoners would be far more effective. The fear of being caught and punished would return. to me this is a no brainer.

There appears to be nothing to fear from a spell in prison, infact many who offend find the lifestyle far superior to the one they had outside, so it's only natural for them to want to get back in after their release, so they re-offend. So imo two solutions, improve their outside conditions and and reduce the attractiveness of prison. Isn't this similar to the benefits/work situation ie, why work for less than you can get in benefits.
2517

Greek.

They don't make ducking stools large enough to put the tory shadow cabinet in.

Mind the picture is appealing,

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For some, the prison conditions you describe would be better than their "home" environment.

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I do think that prisons should be cleaned up and attempts at the following may help.

1) there should be no illegal drugs permitted
2) mobile phones confscated
3) Gang behaviour should be prevented
4) thuggery should be prevented
5) TV and radios kept to a minnimun
6) rewards should be base on attendance at "useful" training (educational and for the possibility for future employment
7) More remedial group and individual psychological therapy to help to enable changes and reduce further transgressions.
8) I don't see why prisons should not in general provide a basic standard of accommodation and improvement to then based on the inmates actions.

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The training for psychologist and probation officers could be improved and their pay improved.

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This all costs money

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Also probably more important would be better training and selection of Social workers. It would also need giving them more powers to deal with "aberrant families" .

Facilities should be provided to remove members of such families.

But you are changing to a dictatorial state and costs MONEY.