Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

Greek - :o))

Greek, I was taking the mickey!

Also, I admit I don't like the way society seems to be deteriorating.

There are groups in society alienated by the society they are members of and alienating of that society.

Both groups are failing one another.

The custodial laws have evolved over a period of time and generally were attempting to enable management of prisoners in custody.

I believe a period of restriction is indicated for some types of crime.

Attempts to "reform" recidivists should be made.

Not all said "recidivists" return to prison, some are reformed.

Giving somebody a kick up the arse, puts the donor on the same level as the receiver.

Many of the recidivist have had their arses kick all their lives and are only to willing to give others the same lessons.


Think of that attitude when it was applied to "niggers" down south in America with shouts of that will sort them Bs out.

The problems are huge but as stated early solutions are more difficult.

PS.

When reforming the criminals is successful. it is cheaper than teaching them to repeat their stupidities. To do it more frequently requires better trained prison staff, probation officers and social workers etc..

To attract more capable individuals that requires better pay.

That means higher taxes, so get ready to "hug a hoody" and pay more taxes.

Higher taxes on trading and gambling.

Fred,

You said, 'Greek, I was taking the mickey! OK I missed it, got too wound up.

My comment, 'The answer you would think was a good swift kick up the a**se' was a metaphorical comment' and was referring to lazy, useless Police Officers. As to reforming criminals, yes it can work but it has to be done early on, once they become hardened in the system it rarely works.
Punishment must come first, as someone said earlier, until punishment is feared the crime rate will never fall.

The following was correct 10 years ago.

Of interest the priorities for the prison authorities are.

1 rehabilitation.
2 protect the public.
3 punishment.

It should be punishment first, and until it is the public will suffer.

I have been in several prisons, the most modern being Full Sutton near York. This prison has state of the art Gyms, 2 football pitches (it could be 3 memory not sure), sports hall, games hall with pool/snooker/etc. There is colour TV with satellite, with many having such TV in their cells, and many other Hotel type facilities. And they never have to wait for doctor/dentist appointments.
Whilst I appreciate you can't have prisoners sitting in their cells all day, why should some have far better facilities than many people on the outside.

Christhe job is fcukedbut then so was most Banks a few years agothe Government choose to rectify their problems with shedloads of dough allowed them to gamble again with our moneyand mysteriously forgot to write in clause *** No Bonuses!!! And yet again our ever caring Banks were the winners
On the other hand here are a few Government plans on a cross section of our Countries Police Forces.during the bailout time:-

Britain's overfilled jails are at 'panic stations' as they lurch from crisis to crisis, the chief inspector of prisons warns in an Observer interview today that will make uncomfortable reading for the government.

Cash crisis claims over rookies
ROOKIEpolice officers are showering in the dark because a training college is so short of cash, it was claimed yesterday.

Affairs Correspondent, BBC Look East
Cambridgeshire Police Chief Constable Julie Spence has warned a shortage of money is threatening front-line services and could ultimately mean officers turning up late to a critical 999 call out. But she claims this has been compounded by a shortfall in the police budget and a growing population.

EXCLUSIVE Police chiefs told to make efficiency savings Government wants 1bn cut to ease crunch
Bobbies on the beat could be axed as ministers demand 1billion police cutbacks.

Police fear funding cuts will hit hardest on the front line Feb 15 2010
FRONTLINE policing across Wales could be scaled back as a result of Government efforts to tackle Britains record budget deficit,

Defence chiefs are considering cutting numbers of the specialist police who guard military facilities including the UK's nuclear deterrent, an industry leader warned today.

POLICE cash cutbacks could mean the loss of more than 50 frontline officers in Gloucestershire as the government tightens its belt.

The chief of Strathclyde Police told employees yesterday to prepare for major cuts to plug a 16 million black hole in the forces budget for next year.

The secretary of South Wales Police Federation has accused politicians of hypocrisy over criticism of a decision to close inner-city police stations.
South Wales Police announced it was shutting the four stations in Cardiff as part of savings to meet a 6.7m shortfall in their budget.
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So yes Chris the job is fcuked.our Police Force were obviously not too big to fail?

tabasco - Absolutely! We can only hope a change of Govt. will change this. Holding our breath I don't think so!

Like Private Frazer says from Dads Army, 'Doomed we're all doomed'.

During which period in recent history do you think the police and prison services working efficiently?

The dark ages. Plus when they had the ducking stool for misbehaving wives. Now that would be a vote winner.

But seriously, the Victorian times were far too barbaric and full of injustice. The problem is like most things that are wrong in life we have now gone too far in the other direction. My view is that once in prison you should be fed just sufficient basic food to keep you healthy. Only water to drink and very limited entertainment, a radio perhaps. If prisons had these conditions, sentencing could be reduced for many offences (not the most serious) and the effect on prisoners would be far more effective. The fear of being caught and punished would return. to me this is a no brainer.

There appears to be nothing to fear from a spell in prison, infact many who offend find the lifestyle far superior to the one they had outside, so it's only natural for them to want to get back in after their release, so they re-offend. So imo two solutions, improve their outside conditions and and reduce the attractiveness of prison. Isn't this similar to the benefits/work situation ie, why work for less than you can get in benefits.
2517

Greek.

They don't make ducking stools large enough to put the tory shadow cabinet in.

Mind the picture is appealing,

================

For some, the prison conditions you describe would be better than their "home" environment.

==================

I do think that prisons should be cleaned up and attempts at the following may help.

1) there should be no illegal drugs permitted
2) mobile phones confscated
3) Gang behaviour should be prevented
4) thuggery should be prevented
5) TV and radios kept to a minnimun
6) rewards should be base on attendance at "useful" training (educational and for the possibility for future employment
7) More remedial group and individual psychological therapy to help to enable changes and reduce further transgressions.
8) I don't see why prisons should not in general provide a basic standard of accommodation and improvement to then based on the inmates actions.

==============

The training for psychologist and probation officers could be improved and their pay improved.

==================

This all costs money

===============

Also probably more important would be better training and selection of Social workers. It would also need giving them more powers to deal with "aberrant families" .

Facilities should be provided to remove members of such families.

But you are changing to a dictatorial state and costs MONEY.

George,

Agree again. Perhaps you, Fred, Chris, and several others on here, should stand for Parliament. Problem is the society blood sucking, benefit sponging brigade, (I am not including the genuine needy in this) criminals and their supporters would no doubt still vote for the lot that keep them in the parasitical manner they are used to.

Greek.

I thought traders were using the same parasitic skills legally, ie. living on others, producing nothing other than self profits doing little or nothing particularly useful for their community!

I am sure I will be told I am wrong.

Fred when we die and go to hell We will discover that there are two choices.. we can go to capitalist hell or to communist hell... Naturally we will want to compare the two so we will go over to capitalist hell. outside the door will stand the devil looking a bit like Ronald Reaganwe will ask Whats it like in there? the devil will reply in capitalist hell they flay you alive then they boil you in oil and then they cut you up into small pieces with sharp knives.
Now that dont sound great Fred so we will go and check out communist hell!there we will discover a huge queue of people waiting to get inFred you will look very happyand we will both wait in the linewhen we eventually get to the front there at the door to communist hell is a little old man who looks a bit like Karl Marxwe will claim to still be in the free world and ask Karl what it is like in there before making any decision Marx will impatiently tell usIn communist hell they flay you alive then they boil you in oil and then they cut you up into small pieces with sharp knives
After all these years Fred you will say Butbutbutbut but thats the same as capitalist hell! Why such a long queue?Marx reply Sometimes were out of oil sometimes we dont have knives sometimes no hot water

Fred - Re your post 8483. I can only talk about the Police Service. In my opinion the demise came about in the early seventies when the police became more mobile out of necessity and costs, govt. cutbacks and ultimately destroyed basic policing. In my day it just wasn't all about a.) the detection of crime but a combination of the prevention of crime and the keeping of the Queens Peace and a.).
The demise of the bobby on the beat, who knew intimately not only the villains on his beat but also the shopkeepers etc. The cost of restoring the Police Service back to those days in my opinion is the only solution to prevent what is rapidly becoming anarchy in this country. A typical night parade in 1970 was 17 beat officers 3 panda drivers and 1 van driver. I would imagine that today they can only dream about those numbers to cover one shift let alone 3.

Chris,

I think we sing from the same hymn sheet as they say.

Tabasco,

Excellent post, lightening the mood somewhat.

.

GreekI did want to put a Government together a few years agoand there was a lot of interested people on the threadstrouble was their motive was to shag Edwina Curry and her Daughter.no class!!!!. so I had to give the idea up?

Edwina Curry! Heard of a Madras, bhindi, brinjal, jalfrezi and many more but not an Edwina. Is it hot and spicy, and does it contain eggs.

mnamreh - I'm talking about the uniform section from a bygone era in Liverpool, a sub station called then Westminster Road (Don't know if it remains today but ten years ago had been converted into a wine bar called 'Cops And Robbers' Ironic don't you think?) As far as the West Midlands Crime Squad are concerned 'Shit appears to happen at some stage in every occupation, profession in life wouldn't you agree?