Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

"confirmation bias"

.

No, that's the one Execline keeps banging on about :-)

25,

Inaccurate again. Other than when I work for the NCB and paid the levy, I have never a Labour party supporter or member, also I have never voted for them.

At the moment, I agree with a large number of the present labour party policies and much of what they have done while in government.

Also have sympathies for some of the Liberal and Green Party's policies.

============

Cameron turned his bask on his own and Porky's indiscretions. Paid back the money some money for false claims and now wishes to crack down on unemployment benefits.

I think he should have been prosecuted. If he worked in local government as an employee he probably would have been.

Hypocrisy of the first order.

Tory backers avoid British taxes and buy votes in the hope of a "government", what else do they want to dodge.

To many what they are doing is seen as corruption and doesn't say much for a future bought tory government, if they were to attain office.

===========

I hope there is a hung government as I predicted in May 2009.

At that time, I believe from memory Haystacks (the intellectual giant) predicted a tory landslide.

Not a landslide, but a majority. And I still predict that. One poll today puts the Conservatives 10 points ahead. Labour is still a poor 3rd. One poll pots them on 24%. That's the worst showing since 1918.

Gillian Duffy has said in an interview tat she is not voting at all and has not posted her vote. The interview is with The Mail on Sunday.

"He wanted me to go outside with him and shake his hands for the camera but I said no," she told the newspaper.

BIGOT = Brown Is Gone On Thursday

IMV it's only the army of benefit dependent voters created by labour that will prevent a landslide victory for the tories. Up to a million of which are youngsters, many of them have absolutely no inclination of getting a job and are happy to remain on benefits indefinitely. Until going to work is actually more beneficial than relying on handouts, this will not change. T I M 's post 8986, the first sentence is spot on.

Morning Fred----re 'Inaccurate again' you have an obvious hate for all things tory, and love of all things labour, as for saying you are not a labour supporter your posts say otherwise, as far as I know you happen to be the first non voting 'staunchie' I have exchanged views with.
2517

25,

Check the meaning of bigot and zealot and see if either or both apply to yourself.

Also check the meaning of irrational, which I think suits your rants to a tee.

Fred--Bigot --one blindly and obstinately devoted to a particular creed or party.
Zealot--An enthusiast, a fanatic.
Irrational--not reasonable, absurd, not logical.
Recognise anyone?

I don't think any of my posts could be considered as rants, if you point them out I'll gladly reassess, but hey, I don't mind you having yours.
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Will Wall street be open tomorrow ?

Bigot --one blindly and obstinately devoted to a particular creed or party.
Zealot--An enthusiast, a fanatic.
Irrational--not reasonable, absurd, not logical.
Recognise anyone?

Yes , anybody who will be voting Labour.

aldwickk: Wall Street is open tomorrow. Our American cousins have no truck with pinko May Day Holidays!

Wall Street will be closed on May 31 (Memorial Day in the U.S.) which coincides with our Spring Bank Holiday.

Thank's MM

Fred,

You ask, "Who would I prefer to employ, a person who doesn't want to work in a job he dislikes, or a person who wishes to work at any reasonable employment, which is offered him even if he dislikes it".

I would prefer the second option, but if someone does 'not' want to work, full stop, and there are many out there, I would make them take the first option, if they would not take the second, sooner than allow continual sponging of the state.
You say that "You not think there is any money to be saved through efficiency measures, if it causes an increase in unemployment". So what you are saying is we must keep everyone employed no matter how none productive and wastefull that job is. We must cut so called none jobs
You also say, "In a period of full employment cutting numbers of individuals working inefficiently would normally increase productivity and therefore, may produce increased gross income. Different circumstances and different arguments".
I do agree with that comment, but that has nothing to do with the cutting of a job that is non productive. Your comment is about workers being none productive. Of course you can have a person being productive, just say turning out useless but government required reports, and it is these type of jobs that have to go.
Turning your augment on it's head, why not create more none jobs, so that everyone is employed no matter how much of a None Job they are doing.

As to my views on several other points you made, I have stated them several times so won't repeat. What I will say is I have enjoyed (although I have had difficulty sometimes keeping my temper) the debates on here, including yours. I have also never read any bigoted comment in your posts.

See you on the barricades.

Aldwicck,

Following up on Post 8999.

As it is probable that more than 60% of the electorate are not going to vote for the tories, would you consider the 60% irrational, bigoted zealots.

Interesting, using your argument there appears to me to be a detachment of some from "common reality".

(The mark of the bigoted, who shout their slogans and adhere to false arguments, and usually unsubstantiated beliefs. Of course that is their right,

But, perhaps, it would be sensible to consider on which side of the bars you are.

But again being credulous, you will probably be that I am from another planet again.

(Be careful, bunker down England, the aliens may be coming.)

That is, if they are not here already.

That is scary!

No wonder the cost of Passports are so high.

This was actually taken from a UK passport application and a member of staff coppied it, as it made her laugh all day.


Dear Minister,

I'm in the process of renewing my passport but I am a total loss to understand or believe the hoops I am being asked to jump through.

How is it that Bert Smith of T.V. Rentals Basingstoke has my address and telephone number and knows that I bought a satellite dish from them back in 1994, and yet, the Government is still asking me where I was born and on what date?

How come that nice West African immigrant chappy who comes round every Thursday night with his DVD rentals van can tell me every film or video I have had out since he started his business up eleven years ago, yet you still want me to remind you of my last three jobs, two of which were with contractors working for the government?

How come the T.V. detector van can tell if my T.V. is on, what channel I am watching and whether I have paid my licence or not, and yet if I win the government run lottery they have no idea I have won or where I am and will keep the bloody money to themselves if I fail to claim in good time.
Do you people do this by hand?

You have my birth date on numerous files you hold on me, including the one with all the income tax forms I've filed for the past 30-odd years. It's on my health insurance card, my driver's licence, on the last four passports I've had, on all those stupid customs declaration forms I've had to fill out before being allowed off the planes and boats over the last 30 years, and all those insufferable census forms that are done every ten years and the electoral registration forms I have to complete, by law, every time our lords and masters are up for re-election. I served in the armed forces for more than 25 years including over ten years at the Ministry of Defence in London.

I have had security clearances which allowed me to sit in the Cabinet Office, five seats away from the Prime Minister while he was being briefed on the first Gulf War and I have been doing volunteer work for the British Red Cross ever since I left the Services. However, I have to get someone 'important' to verify who I am -- you know, someone like my doctor...who, before he got his medical degree 6 months ago WAS LIVING IN PAKISTAN...

Would somebody please take note, once and for all, I was born in Maidenhead on the 4th of March 1957, my mother's name is Mary, her maiden name was Reynolds, my father's name is Robert, and I'd be absolutely astounded if that ever changed between now and the day I die!

I apologise Minister. I'm obviously not myself this morning. But between you and me, I have simply had enough! You mail the application to my house, then you ask me for my address. What is going on? Do you have a gang of Neanderthals working there? Look at my damn picture. Do I look like Bin Laden? I don't want to activate the Fifth Reich for God's sake! I just want to go and park my weary backside on a sunny, sandy beach for a couple of week's well-earned rest away from all this crap.

Well, I have to go now, because I have to go to back to Salisbury and get another copy of my birth certificate because you lost the last one, AND to the tune of 60 quid! What a racket THAT is!! Would it be so complicated to have all the services in the same spot to assist in the issuance of a new passport the same day? But nooooo, that'd be too damn easy and maybe make sense. You'd rather have us running all over the place like chickens with our heads cut off, then find some tosser to confirm that it's really me on the goddamn picture - you know... the one where we're not allowed to smile in case we look as if we are enjoying the process!
Hey, you know why we can't smile? 'Cause we're totally jacked off!

Yours sincerely,
An Irate British Citizen.

Reply to 9002,


Greek,

Interesting, I posted this suggestion earlier. You can download it. It is old, but in many ways more relevant today, than in the period it was written. Some of it was, I think, tongue in cheek, so have a cool drink at hand.
"In Praise of Idleness" by Bertrand Russell, 1932.

=================================

Now!

1) I have fewer problems with a person employed pushing bit of paper around for said useless bit of information and red tape, than for those producing plastic products to be sold to the gullible public for a profit.

2) Also, more than a little fed up with seeing unused kitchens being torn out of the modern houses to please some who dont know how to or cant cook. Idea is to keep up with the neighbours etc. I.E. the actions lead to useless employment.

3) Etc. but adding more irritations would down to value judgements and this is rightly dependent on the individuals hopefully informed opinion. However, the value judgements for many, are based on the final figure on a companys profit and loss sheet. That is the valuation of the product or work, is often based on personal gain and little on the consequences of the work or produce to society. (Would you be happy making and selling cigarettes to third world economies or drugs to pupils of a school. (Perhaps, Eton, Harrow or the comprehensive down the road.)

=======================================

(The problem with not collecting (unnecessary) data is that the future relevance of it is unknown. As you have notice, various police, government, medical and armed forces enquiries are often based on seemingly irrelevant gathered information. Without the latter, justice may not have been seen to be done and may not be done.

A prime example of this is the earlier collection of DNA, which has led to both successful prosecutions and, also, the release of victims who have been wrongful prosecuted.)

(Again, sometimes it is difficult to comprehend the intention and uses for the data. Noting, many things, which were thought inconsequential to others and at the time, have led to many major discoveries, inventions and developments, etc. ).

==========================

There may be something for producing Non Jobs ie. the tory Think Tank????) . IE. go away and play with idea and think about it. (Note the tories need a tank to think in. I would fill it up with water and they could swim at the same time.) But I dont think that is what you mean.

( I can remember seeing a worked out miner working on the surface of my fathers colliery (his colliery) and being told by someone, that the man should be sacked as he was worked out, unemployable as he couldnt do a proper mans days work.

I asked my father what he thought and his reply was something in the following vein;

Allowing him to work helps him keep his dignity, by giving him the chance to have a pay packet in his pocket, when he goes home to his wife and family they also have dignity. The job which he has is not arduous, just oiling the wheels of the trams and over moving parts of various machines on the surface of the colliery.

The job is boring, but the man is reliable and prepared to do it, reliably and honestly.

Also, by him doing his job efficiently he prevents some costly breakdowns of the journeys and other machinery.

It seems to me, that a little inefficiency in many companies, can be carried beneficially for the companies themselves and the workforce of the companies.

I believe it is better to have 105% of the workforce needed, than a discontented 95% of the required workforce, who cannot respond to short term emergencies etc. appropriately.

I think at sometime, or other, there has to be a review of the ethics behind the cry of full employment and working hours and what is considered work.

Often, I thought that when I was said to be working, for most of the time it seemed like play to me. Perhaps, I was lucky like my grandson, who likes playing Maths and working out probabilities. Especially, when allowed to do it in his head and only has to write the answers down without the workings.
(How is that, for efficiency?)

My wife always thought that i went to work to play and escape real responsibility at home .8-)

What many tories are voting tory, is the vague hope, that Cameron and Osborne wont distribute more equitably the more of the countrys cake to the general population.

There is a tendency by some of tories, to believe only the rich, (generally, initiated by inherited circumstances) have the right to become richer and have leisure time and that the other mass of the people, should be kept in their unenviable positions and be grateful for their handouts.
To Late.


=================================

Response to 9004.

You need faster, better electronic databases. (Money)

Also, somebody, or everybody, to have input the data accurately.

But the cost of exporting some "illegal immigrants" from this country will cost thousands.

I forgot Cameron's efficiencies policies (CUT BACKS TO YOU and ME) will release the money to do so.

ONLY problem, no employees to collect the information.

I know, get those out of the Fish tank (sorry Think Tank) and re-employ them, as they have obviously stopped thinking!

8-)

.

Fred is really a total idiot

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/elections/dont-panic-post/post/dont_panic/15/investigation-highlights-further-government-misspending.html#mwpphu-container

T I M--I believe everyone is entitled to their own opinion and that includes Fred, but it appears that if people don't agree with his view, then he resorts to mild abuse, (despite his earlier claims that he doesn't see the need for it). Having said that, he did say (earlier post) that he enjoys winding up the blue rinse brigade (or similar).

I see the Labour rag (Daily Mirror) is telling people to vote Lib Dem, strange they don't feel able to endorse Labour's policies, I wonder why?
2517