Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

Reply to 9002,


Greek,

Interesting, I posted this suggestion earlier. You can download it. It is old, but in many ways more relevant today, than in the period it was written. Some of it was, I think, tongue in cheek, so have a cool drink at hand.
"In Praise of Idleness" by Bertrand Russell, 1932.

=================================

Now!

1) I have fewer problems with a person employed pushing bit of paper around for said useless bit of information and red tape, than for those producing plastic products to be sold to the gullible public for a profit.

2) Also, more than a little fed up with seeing unused kitchens being torn out of the modern houses to please some who dont know how to or cant cook. Idea is to keep up with the neighbours etc. I.E. the actions lead to useless employment.

3) Etc. but adding more irritations would down to value judgements and this is rightly dependent on the individuals hopefully informed opinion. However, the value judgements for many, are based on the final figure on a companys profit and loss sheet. That is the valuation of the product or work, is often based on personal gain and little on the consequences of the work or produce to society. (Would you be happy making and selling cigarettes to third world economies or drugs to pupils of a school. (Perhaps, Eton, Harrow or the comprehensive down the road.)

=======================================

(The problem with not collecting (unnecessary) data is that the future relevance of it is unknown. As you have notice, various police, government, medical and armed forces enquiries are often based on seemingly irrelevant gathered information. Without the latter, justice may not have been seen to be done and may not be done.

A prime example of this is the earlier collection of DNA, which has led to both successful prosecutions and, also, the release of victims who have been wrongful prosecuted.)

(Again, sometimes it is difficult to comprehend the intention and uses for the data. Noting, many things, which were thought inconsequential to others and at the time, have led to many major discoveries, inventions and developments, etc. ).

==========================

There may be something for producing Non Jobs ie. the tory Think Tank????) . IE. go away and play with idea and think about it. (Note the tories need a tank to think in. I would fill it up with water and they could swim at the same time.) But I dont think that is what you mean.

( I can remember seeing a worked out miner working on the surface of my fathers colliery (his colliery) and being told by someone, that the man should be sacked as he was worked out, unemployable as he couldnt do a proper mans days work.

I asked my father what he thought and his reply was something in the following vein;

Allowing him to work helps him keep his dignity, by giving him the chance to have a pay packet in his pocket, when he goes home to his wife and family they also have dignity. The job which he has is not arduous, just oiling the wheels of the trams and over moving parts of various machines on the surface of the colliery.

The job is boring, but the man is reliable and prepared to do it, reliably and honestly.

Also, by him doing his job efficiently he prevents some costly breakdowns of the journeys and other machinery.

It seems to me, that a little inefficiency in many companies, can be carried beneficially for the companies themselves and the workforce of the companies.

I believe it is better to have 105% of the workforce needed, than a discontented 95% of the required workforce, who cannot respond to short term emergencies etc. appropriately.

I think at sometime, or other, there has to be a review of the ethics behind the cry of full employment and working hours and what is considered work.

Often, I thought that when I was said to be working, for most of the time it seemed like play to me. Perhaps, I was lucky like my grandson, who likes playing Maths and working out probabilities. Especially, when allowed to do it in his head and only has to write the answers down without the workings.
(How is that, for efficiency?)

My wife always thought that i went to work to play and escape real responsibility at home .8-)

What many tories are voting tory, is the vague hope, that Cameron and Osborne wont distribute more equitably the more of the countrys cake to the general population.

There is a tendency by some of tories, to believe only the rich, (generally, initiated by inherited circumstances) have the right to become richer and have leisure time and that the other mass of the people, should be kept in their unenviable positions and be grateful for their handouts.
To Late.


=================================

Response to 9004.

You need faster, better electronic databases. (Money)

Also, somebody, or everybody, to have input the data accurately.

But the cost of exporting some "illegal immigrants" from this country will cost thousands.

I forgot Cameron's efficiencies policies (CUT BACKS TO YOU and ME) will release the money to do so.

ONLY problem, no employees to collect the information.

I know, get those out of the Fish tank (sorry Think Tank) and re-employ them, as they have obviously stopped thinking!

8-)

.

Fred is really a total idiot

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/elections/dont-panic-post/post/dont_panic/15/investigation-highlights-further-government-misspending.html#mwpphu-container

T I M--I believe everyone is entitled to their own opinion and that includes Fred, but it appears that if people don't agree with his view, then he resorts to mild abuse, (despite his earlier claims that he doesn't see the need for it). Having said that, he did say (earlier post) that he enjoys winding up the blue rinse brigade (or similar).

I see the Labour rag (Daily Mirror) is telling people to vote Lib Dem, strange they don't feel able to endorse Labour's policies, I wonder why?
2517

TIM.

Compared with whom, and what is the your bases for defining me as such?

Also what is your definition of an idiot.

This seems a reasonable definition

An idiot, dolt, or dullard is a mentally deficient person, or someone who acts in a self-defeating or significantly counterproductive way.

"self defeating or significantly counter productive way" is interesting, I wonder, how many of those who know me, would apply that to me.

I suppose a few, but not many.

.

A. Darling states that as we are not in the Euro we aren't contributing to the Greek bailout, wonder how much that would have cost us under the Lib Dems, and with possible bailouts to come for other struggling countries, best we stay out, IMV
2517

But when it comes to our yearly EU contribution, I wonder how much it will increase by. So I agree we will not be contributing directly, but as ever if you belong, you pay in the long run. But I do fully agree it would be far worse if we had joined the Euro.
Like most who voted for joining the 'Common Market' as it was known, I was all for less red tape when it came to trade and the reducing of trade barriers. But as we all know the original concept to which we agreed has been altered by general nibbling away at the edges that it is no longer recognisable, the last such nibble (more like a big bite) was the Lisbon Treaty.
The first move from a Common Market was the start of when I lost all faith in anything a Politician tells me. We were well and truly conned, and that 'con' is continuing.
We should leave. Many will argue that if we did leave that would be the finish of the UK, but we could still trade. There are many countries that trade with Europe that are not tried to it. The main reason that politicians scare the electorate with horror stories of what would happen if we withdrew our membership, is because they want to leave an opening for membership of this 'Gravy Train' club should they wish to be MEP's.
The bottom line is we joined to benefit. I feel we had been in negative, benefit territory for years.

We are also paying because the Euro is sinking due to Greece and the Pound is being dragged down by it.

greek: In 1973 we were told we were voting for a free trade area - but Ted Heath et al later admitted that they knew exactly what they were taking us in to - a Federal Europe. They also admitted that they had deliberately misled the British public because thay knew the public wouldn't go for it.

I suspect that it is too late to leave, but as our resistance to the Euro shows, we can have our cake and eat it. We were right to stay out of that, otherwise we'd quite definitely be down the tubes with the rest of the PIGS.

Morning MightyMiro,

Totally agree with your first paragraph, and partly with your second, as I do not feel it is too late to leave.
Eventually if the EU does not crumble due to the Pigs situation, they will be bringing out even more Federational/Dictorial type rules as their eventual aim must be a Federal Europe, with a central total ruling body. We will then have a situation where separate counties governments will be similar to town councils with only a few powers that do not impinge on the big decisions that will be made in Brussels. This would result in Germany with support from their puppet France making other EU members nothing more than a principalities without a sovereign head of state.

Strange that the EU is the only Confederation or States that is going toward central ruling, as when you look at other similar situations they have either gone (the Balkans) or moving away from (USSR). If people are worried about a hung parliament due to the fact that it if far more difficult to reach decisions, how come many of the same people feel that a parliament of 27 countries, (and growing) with all their different beliefs, cultures and traditions can reach consensuses of opinion that benefit the members as a whole, instead of benefits of individual self progression.

.

The original aim of the EU was indeed to be a federal Europe. Years ago I was reading the newspapers in Italy and it was implied in every word written. There was much less reaction to it since Europeans do feel European unlike the Brits. However the difference in what the European newspapers thought the EU was about and what the UK newspapers thought was very striking. I realised years ago that the Brits had no idea was what going on.

After the whole failed referendum thing the EU has tempered its aims somewhat and I don't think that there would be any major inroads into UK sovereignty after Lisbon, which was difficult enough to push through (not only in the UK). The climate in the whole of Europe has changed. The only way they did it was by not calling the treaty a Constitutional Treaty and not merging all the treaties into one constitution, although the legislation is pretty much the same.

However, I have had to study EU law recently and make no mistake about it, EU laws take precedence over UK laws. The UK parliament can pass laws that conflict with EU law, but without in effect pulling out of the EU by repealing the European Communities Act 1972, they would be ignored by UK courts.

To be honest, I think it was only partly blatant lying by politicians at the time. I suspect that they may have been trying to have their cake and eat it too, or perhaps they didn't think about it enough. What happened was that the UK courts, being logical and law abiding bodies, held that there was no point in writing legislation holding that the UK was subject to EU law unless it meant precisely that. At the same time, the EU courts were dogmatic in reaching the same decision for all countries of the EU (European Court of Justice decisions are effective in the UK without further enactment).

If the UK tried to pass UK laws that conflicted with the EU without repealing the EC Act 1972, UK courts might, depending on the circumstances, recognise that the UK parliament had ceased to want to submit to the laws of the EU, but it would trigger a legal crisis until it was sorted out, since the courts would not know which EU law was effective and which not.

The legal debate as to whether the UK has or has not given up sovereignty has been going on for years and the best answer is that it has because it has chosen to. Theoretically there is no legal way of withdrawing from the EU. That is because the EC Act 1972 says that EU law overrides past and future UK legislation, and so theoretically, parliament could pass a law repealing the EC Act, but that would be ignored too.

The practical answer though is that if Parliament changed its mind, the Supreme Court would be very unlikely to stand against it.

Just receive this interesting E-mail from Gausie, whom I squelched over twelve months ago, as I thought his posting generally abusive about me, and equally abusive to others, when he disagreed with them. I saw no reason to be observant of what I saw, as deliberate attempts to be unpleasant.

A short time ago, I received the E-mail below from him, suggesting that I had made veiled threats to other BB posters.


I am not aware of making any such threatening remark, within the last twenty years or so, but I am interested to know, if anybody has felt personally threatened by any of my postings, on this thread, or any other Moneyam thread.


If so, and you draw my attention to such, I will reconsider the remarks.


However, I consider the content of the E-mail (see below), is deliberately unpleasant and abusive and is covertly threatening.


It seems to me that some posters are intolerant to views, or opinions, which do not concur with their own.


One can see why there is so much violence in the world.


(Of course, my opinion is not necessarily correct.)

========================================


This email has been sent via the MoneyAM Website (http://www.moneyam.com)


To reply to this email you will need to go to the MoneyAM Bulletin Boards
and click on the name of the user that sent you this email and then click
the 'message button'.


The following message was sent by Gausie:
http://www.moneyam.com/InvestorsRoom/profile.php?user=Gausie

-------------------------------------------------------------------------




You're a tosser.



I suggest you don't make veiled threats to other BB posters. What goes
around comes around.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

In order to change your contact options, please visit your profile at
http://www.moneyam.com/profile.php

Mnamreh,

You say. "With 7Bn humans on the planet and rising, how high does anyone want the barricades? It is not feasible to close the door".

Why is it. Just leave the EU (apart from trade) and just say No More. We should be the masters of our own country not servants of others.

Kayak,

I do agree. Although it will eventually come to a point where we say, Sod the Supreme Court, like several countries do. I am sure you agree the Court of Human rights is ignored by many countries, who get away with it. Not saying they all should, IE those who commit genocide, wholesale torture and the like, but many countries are far stricter on 'rights' than we are. The UK as always tends to bend over backward to obey each and every, law/rule that is imposed on us by courts that we have little or no say in the legislative powers or laws they decide should be enshrined as part of our culture.
After all, 'ALL courts including our own Supreme Court, are supposed to enforce the laws of the state that they apply to. If we as a nation refuse to Kowtow to the laws made by none mandated legislators, what can they do. We should have our own 'Bill of rights' and refuse to recognise the human rights act.
Remember the Court of Human Rights, often uses all it's power on the easy targets, for example members of the armed forces who have in the heat of battle, overstepped the mark, whilst allowing despots such as Mugabe to commit cold blooded genocide against his own people.
Once laws were made by the people, for the people, through their respective representatives. Now often they are, as you say made by faceless people we can not vote out. Yes we can vote in the European elections, but what weight does our piddling little country have against the power of the EU, especially as so called opt-outs are being nibbled away, to such an extent that soon it will be majority voting that holds total sway.

Fred,

Never felt threatened or insulted.

.

.