Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

Greek,

I hope, I would not have denigrated individuals and vociferously lied about the policies of other parties. (Later seemingly to introduce some of them.)

I would not have permitted, what I would consider corrupt funding from overseas, with its possible future consequences.

I would not have made knowing false promises, which I knew I couldn't fulfil (glaring NIC).

I would not have had a manifesto. which appeals to the greed of individuals and the "racial" bigotry of many.

(For many, immigrants means the blacks. blues or reds, but not Caucasians . The groups, who can be easily recognised and attention focussed upon as an excuse for failings in their own expectancies.) (The tories played this card as much as the BNP, but are already stumbling over the difficulties of devising any effective policies.)

If, I was Cameron and with the position that he had got himself into, I would have probably done a similar deal. But, thank god I am not.

If I was Clegg, I wouldn't have touched it with a barge pole.

If the politicians have a "social conscience" as you suggest, there is no reason why they could not have form a minority government. Or, at the very least, a temporary coalition of all parties for a two year period to address the immediate economic problems.

This would be to the benefit of the country at the present moment. With the present return of MPs, I would have had no objection to Cameron as PM, and a representative party balance in cabinet, with a "free" vote in the house.

If the above had been done, with restraint on all sides, it would have been possible to introduce legislation to address the economy and the "political reforms".

I think that there may have been general public support for this type of coalition, although there are many involve in tribal politics, who would raise their hands in horror. Some of those raised their voices and hands against a coalition government, spent their days after the election sucking up to the Liberals.

What I have written above is a simplification of what may have been possible.

The devil is in the detail.

====================

Here is a challenge to you.

I think you are retired and probably about 10years younger than I am.

Reflect back to period before retirement from about 1997.

Has the standard of living of you and your children improved since that date?

Has the expectancies of the majority of people increased during that period?

Have they wished or demands being more often not been fulfil?

How many home improvements have you or they made?

Has housing and living accommodation been improved overall?


How has been their hospital medical treatments and care been and was it improved?

How many holidays at home or overseas have they had, compared with the previous ten years?

If there are young children have the schools been improved, are there attempts to raise the standards for them and others?

Has policing improved?

You should know the crime rates?

Have the pay rates and working conditions for the "poorer" and more vulnerable been improved?

Look around in general and see if conditions and expectancies been improved.

For me this is the legacy of Brown.

Yes, during this period, mistakes have been made, they are bound to have been.

Will mistakes occur in the future? Yes they will.

Has Brown admitted to what he sees as mistakes? Yes.

You may disagree, but I am interested to see the results of the coalition and think that any attempt to push legislation for a fixed term parliament through, without a referendum, I hope will be challenge to the limit.

(The details of the suggested changes have to be examined carefully, but there must be democratic means to bring a government down.)



When you look at the list compare it and the infrastructure of the country with the period of 1980 -1997.

Same old shite! Why don't you guys just give Fred a pat on the head and a lump of sugar. Your trying to knit fog!

The Bluffers Handbook for Politicians.

Fred,

I include Caucasian in immigration
You have agreed that if you were Cameron you would probably have done the same deal. So presumably you have exactly the same faults as he has, IE you said, "Cameron is happy to jettison any principle or ideal he many have had, in order to get into power. The latter has already torn up the promises in the Tory manifestos and cheated his own party".
So hung by your own argument, petard!

As to your other questions, not avoiding the issue, just feel it is obvious that we will never convince each other that our view is the correct one. So whilst 100% accepting that you are entitled to your views (no matter how much I disagree with those views), I will leave it there.

Greek.

We wouldn't have a budget deficet if we were not paying one hundred and twenty thousand million to the EU to keep the Greeks et al. in the style that they do not deserve and have not earned. I am expecting the Euro to fall apart in a few years when it becomes obvious that the Greeks have not changed their ways and owe even more money than they do at present. It is noticable that the FT, which for years tried to persuade the country to join the Euro has quietly dropped its stance, but then they are nearly always well behind things in their thinking. The UKIP members are the sensible ones.

P.S I no longer read Fred's posts as I have better thing sto do with my time and now that I make my money on the markets I no longer have to suffer fools at all, and certainly not gladly.

TIM.

You must have difficulty living with yourself.

I would have thought it was you Fred who had difficulty living with himself

when you grow up and look back on what your views are now, you will be very surprised how they will have changed

Greece has rwetirement at 55 and various other abusrd benefits. France is in a similar position. They need to get a dose of reality if they expect any help.

Kayak,

You asked me a question and I will try an answer, although you may not understand what I write.

I have followed the careers of many politicians, from numerous parties over varying periods of time and tried to understand their motivations and ideals for doing what they did or do. It should be obvious, by now, that I do not necessarily agree with all their ideals, or actions. That is one reason why I do not have any particular tribal allegiance, or membership.

Although, I am an atheist, I was instilled at a early age with some Christian values, which included respect of others, belief in the community, of trying not being abusive, or utilising the vulnerabilities of others for my own unfair personal gain. (It is obvious that, I have not always lived up to those ideals, but at least I was observant of those values, and attempts were and are made.)

Those values remain core feelings, although, as can be seen, I am prepared to be intellectually amoral in discussion, but I do consider for advancement of a society, that the core values I mentioned above would be sensible standards and lead to a more harmonious, and therefore safer ongoing society.

For myself, offspring and their children, it would seem a more preferable society, to the grab it for oneself, and run society which is developing.

This doesnt discount those who obtain advantages, by work, and the use of the attributes they possess and have developed, but there is a necessary balance to rewards and they have to take the whole of society consideration and carry it as a whole.

(This doesnt have to be so, but I would prefer it to be, as I dont want a society where one has to constantly look over ones shoulders.)

(I feel Brown had similar core value and his policies were aimed in that direction, but he is a political beast and restrained by his chosen art.)

Development, of an inclusive society, is problematic and certainly full of difficulties, as witnessed.

Inequalities of basic rights, and/or, even expectancies, make it more difficult for it to be attained.

I may be mistaken, but I dont think that the present tory party holds the values I wish for this country. That fortunately remains their right,.

Fred
Such rubbish you post here.

Camelot,

No difficulty, I am often amused at myself and my actions, but I am not frightened to review and question my opinions and actions.

Never felt any need of the herd, in order to hold an opinion, although certainly observant of it, when forming my opinions.

Greek,

Many don't and see only "black and "white" or "them" from "there".

Tim.

I don't think the Euro zone or the Euro will collapse,and expect it to rise above their present problems. To complicated to fail.

Not so sure about the economy of the UK.

I think the UK is in for a far rougher time than many expect.

Interesting to see, NIC, is to go up as in the form of Personal Tax, CGT is going to go up. VAT is to go up and in spite and in spite of everything Personal taxation will go up.

Services are to be cut and unemployment to increase with depression of the housing market.

May strengthen the Pound for a while, but will depress exports.

Interesting.

Hays,

I didn't expect you to understand, or even want to.

One wife had a lucky break.

Go back, to your prophesies and insider knowledge of the tories and electoral system, you will feel at home there.
=============

I will go back to getting ready for my next wanderings.

France

8-)


The smile is for France.

You seem to misunderstand almost everything and are more blinkered than most of the politicians.

The Conservatives are pro business and try to help business. they are pro people making money. These attitudes do not preclude them being interested in the wellfare of the population. The only way the lives of the majority will improve is if business and therefore the country is successful. The Labour part and all other similar socialist movements are all for a flat even society and will try and push that through even against the will of the people. The Labour party becomes more and more Facist the longer they are in power. It is only because Blair pretended to be something other than Labour, that he remained in office. Labour typically get elected, tax and spend and get thrown out.

Why are the tories so keen on fixed period 5year parliament at this point in time.

Was it in their manifesto?

One relatively important piece of economic literature (The Spirit Level) suggests that the rich are better off in an equal society (such as Japan or the Scandinavian countries) than in an unequal society where there is a big divide between the rich and the poor (such as the US and UK).

The idea is that by putting more money in the pockets of the poor, they are the people who are more likely to spend and the money spent will in turn also benefit the rich because it is they who own the factories that make the goods that the poor buy. The theory sounds nice but, when you consider that Japan have been effectively bankrupt for the last 10 years, the theory is not without flaws.

The theory has also been promoted in schools and universities in the UK in recent years and forms a major part of the teachings of the youth of today.

Fred
I doubt that the Conervatives want a fixed term 5 year parliament. It looks like it is the Libs that want it. They would be worried that Cameron might see the economy going well at some stage and want to pull a quick election to increase their majority and ditch the Libs. I guess it was one of the conditions set by Clegg.

Fred, your explanation is not bad as far as it goes, but I think you're missing two important factors. The first is that what is desired and what is actually obtained through the chosen strategy are often two entirely different things. I think what you are confusing is what Gordon wants, which is probably not all that different to what all the other politicians want, i.e. a prosperous society where everyone is happy, and the way he chooses to go about it. Often the obvious way is not the best one. That is why there are many prosperous capitalist societies and few if any prosperous true socialist ones. I'd like a society where everyone's needs are fully met by the State, the only problem is that someone has to pay for it, and if you meet everyone's needs there are not enough working people left to pay for it and no incentive for anyone to work.

Or seen another way, if Gordon's ideas had been so successful, someone would have funded him for a second term.

Secondly, what you see of Gordon's ideas is what he chooses to show you. That is why the Bigotsgate episode was so hugely damaging personally to him - it showed what he really thought of the people he stood for. And OK, everyone is under pressure in their job, but if he thought that the lady's line of questioning was terrible then clearly he had chosen to ignore what the country was saying.

In summary, I think you're confusing what you think he believed in with what he was actually achieving.

Hilary,

Out of "necessity", the poorer spend a higher percentage of their income and that might account for a higher total of wealth spent. If this is so, then at some points in an economic cycle, it may lead to an increasing GDP, etc..

The problem with the theory, is where are the limits?
===,

Hays,

As, I think you confessed to being an insider, or at least wanting to be. check.

This is me,

Fully agree with your post, except I think the euro will not last another 12 months, mainly due to Greece either jumping the Euro ship or being pushed, but also because Spain will quickly follow, with Portugal trailing not far behind.
Once that happens, the remaining countries will leave like rats leaving the sinking ship.
The only way the Euro can survive is if they instigate monetary policy via a euro (federal) bank. This would obviously mean all aspects of finance with monetary budgets, taxed being levelled out. You can't have one currency pegged to more than one country and expect it to work. With differing budgets, policies, one country will want that currency to stay strong, Germany for example, whilst others will want it to weaken, Greece/Spain.
This is what the major Euro powers have always wanted, and will continue to push for, total rule
The euro is dead, and is being kept ticking over on life support, eventually it will have to be accepted, no amount of resuscitation (bail-outs) will revive it.

Note... I presume we all are aware The Bank of England issued a new-style 20 note on 13 March 2007. The note features Adam Smith, (Scottish) one of the fathers of modern economics, on the back and incorporates enhanced security features.

The new-style 20 notes will circulate alongside the old-style Elgar (English) note which will be progressively withdrawn from circulation.

So after the old notes are withdrawn, the only English 20 note will feature a Scotsman.
Can you imagine the uproar if the Scottish 20 featured an Englishman.

Another case of the English losing identity.