Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

What mutilation Fred ? What Mike Tyson done was a accident he was only wispering in his ear and Evander pulled his head away.

Hatstack,

You say, 'You are permitted to use one dog to flush out a fox to be killed by a bird of prey, which is probably a more lingering death than to be killed by dogs'.
Sorry but in this country, I have never seen a bird of prey used to kill a fox, flushed out, but not saying it does not happen. I agree they are allowed to flush out with 1 dog, but that dog either mauls the fox to death due to it being cornered in its den, or it is flushed out and killed by other dogs or netted and killed.
As to loss of jobs. If hunting was truly banned, no doubt many hunt members would still ride, so their horses would still need keeping, grooming, fodder etc, so there would be only a few jobs that would go.
As to the usual death, the nearest part of the fox (the hind quarters in the 2 foxes I have seen killed) are grabbed by the nearest dog and once the second or third dogs get a hold, it is usually torn screaming limb from limb.
I have spoken to many who follow hunts, both pro and anti, who have seen kills, and very rarely is a fox killed by a throat area death grip or bite.
As to hounds coming across a fox scent whilst following a lure, you ask any hunt member and they will tell you the 'Whipper in' has little problem in controlling the hounds. So why can't they just call them in from the scent.
As to my earlier post re Dogs put down. These was an official statement and figures quoted to the inquiry prior to the recent ban.
After 5 or 6 seasons, when they (the hounds) will be 7 to 8 years old, most hounds physically cannot run up with the rest of the pack. Hounds that cannot keep up will adversely affect the efficiency of the pack and are liable to become a risk hazard. Hounds dislike being left behind, (what they actually mean it saves money putting them down). There is no other option other than to humanely put them down when they can no longer perform their role. END

In an Average year, 3000 hounds that are fit and well, but are deemed to old to keep up are put down, a fact that is very rarely if ever mentioned.
I wonder just how many hunt supporters, would be prepared to witness the death of these hounds.

Well posted Greekman , also a lot of country people only march with the countryside allience because they are afraid of upsetting the hunting set who employ them.

Good post Greek...

Aldwickk,

Agree. To be even handed when it comes to sides, I have seen many incidents where hunt supporters and the anti hunt brigade have been violent mainly to each other but sometimes to the animals. The anti brigade also attracts the idiots who will follow any cause just to be anti.
OH well it's yet another week gone on the treadmill of life.
So have a good weekend all, (Fred, as the bells gone for the end of the round, I do include you in that).

Aldwickk, I received your e-mail. hope you got mine.

Greek.

Greekman

Yes i got your email thanks , will reply .

greekman
The dog flushing out the fox to be killed by a bird of prey or shot is part of the new regulations. Many hunts operate that way now quite legally. At some time in the future I expect it to return the previous methods.

To be killed by a bird of prey was a loop hole in the law and not ment to be part of
the new regulations.

They can be shot as well. I did find out that the limit is two dogs to flush out the fox.

Just squelsh Fred. He is a complete fool.

Indeed Tim, the man is a total oxygen thief. I imagine if everyone squished or totally ignored him he would get bored and piss off.

The whole hunt ban thing was part of labour's imaginary class war on the 'toffs'. The reality was always different.. Hunting was/is much more classless (as is shooting, my sport) than the towny labourites knew. I doubt that animal welfare had much of a part to play. Most towny labourites know three parts of bugger all about animal welfare or countryside management. The British countryside is the way it is through centuries of management by man, which includes culling pest and predator species.

My own daughter took up shooting after seeing the destruction wrought by foxes on a sheep farm when she worked lambing. The farmer had to shoot literally hundreds of foxes a year.

A vast amount of nonsense seems to be spouted and pontificated by those with no experience of the real world when it comes to wildlife.

Our own garden is now bursting with song birds. Chaffinches, tits, robins, sparrows, yellowhammers, goldfinches, the place is alive. Why? Well we feed them - and I shoot the damned magpies that kill them and sometimes bother to eat them.

Thats right towny labourites know bugger all about animal welfare, does that include towny torys ? it seems that you have the class war problem.

Most sheep and lambs are killed by pet dogs running wild , so its you that knows bugger all.

Countryside management . who was it that dug up all the hedgerows ?

Animal welfare. who exports live animals to countrys that have low animal welfare standards

Who used veal grates untill they were forced to stop by law ?

Who still use battery hens when every animal welfare expert says they are cruel ?

Don't get me started on the masses of chemical's that get sprayed onto the food we eat and that are partly responsible for the falling numbers of wild birds and mammals in the uk [ i grow my own and buy oganic ] and i don't hug tree's.

ald,

Any spare hugs for TIM.

I have no qualms with boxing although I would never attend an event. I have though inadvertently seen boxing "events" in Mexico and south east Asia. I would say that 14 year old females being pummelled to the point of unconsciousness under the eye of a baying crowd was not a pretty sight and nor was some of the other of it.
I do not hunt now but have 21 times in my life, I kid you not that was in Australia, truth be told the jumps designated and not, here and in Ireland scare me witless, so I leave it to others. However, I move sometimes in these communities and the tradition, history and pageantry and just a day out for the local folk (nothing to do with alleged upper classes) is something that those with other vices and in other environments probably actually don't have the right to comment on

People get upset about foxes being killed and similarly about badgers. However, they don't mind rats being killed. There is no essential difference between a baby seal, a fox, a badger, a rat or pigeon (flying rat). Just because one or more have nice face or there are sentimental feelings towards them doesn't mean you can't kill them if they are a pest.

Your missing the point , if they are a pest they should be culled in a humane way and not just an excuse to carry on an outdated cruel tradition.

Public hangings used to be a day out for the locals. Also you might say that there is no essential difference between humans and monkeys but would you like to be forced to take part in lab experments and be hunted for food or caged in a zoo ?

If you went on the opinion of the public then we would have capital punishment. Every opinion poll shows the public want it back. I am not one of them.

I do want foxes killed and I am not bothered whether it is humane or not. I get foxes in my garden and I regard them as a pest. If I was a better shot, I would probably throw a brick at them. I usually have to resort to turning the hose on them or painting the fence area where they come through with non-setting tar paint. The council is not interested. The fox lovers groups are not interested (they say I should be pleased to have foxes in my garden).

At the end of the day you just have to accept that not every one is bothered whether they are killed humanely or not. It is just a fox and not any different from an ant or some other pest. In a different detting it moight not be a pest. In the country it is regarded as a pest and in cities it is a pest. Maybe on some remote moorland it might not be a pest, but who cares.

I haver had several dogs and currently a cat and treated them very well. That is not to say I am dog or cat lover. I just like my dogs and cats.

So what constitutes being "culled in a humane way"?

It really has nothing to do with killing in a humane way. It is that there is a section of society that resents there being a sporting aspect to the killing.

There has been a fear for some time now amongst anglers that fishing would not be too far down the list of 'inhumane' and cruel sports.

Seal culling is done in a pretty humane way, certainly in terms of speed and suffering. A hunter bashes a seal on the head with a club that has a large spike at the end of it. Death is pretty much instantaneous. That doesn't go down too well with the animal rights people though as it is not pretty (except the seal's face). Of course they don't come up with a better solution to the overpopulation. Would letting them starve to death be better? Shooting is no more humane than the use of the club.