Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

I always thought one of my main responsibilities towards myself and my family is to work towards maximising my own income and minimising my own expenditure.

I see others doing the same.

Some use tax evasion. Some use tax avoidance. Some use 'professionally thought up methods'. Some use methods which are just gutterally basic.

I see our MPs in action. I see world leaders in action. I observe the likes of Philip Green, Lord Ashcroft, Robert Mugabe, Tony and Cherie Blair and others far too numerous to mention, all going about their business.

I observe all sorts of people preaching all sorts of differing moralities and false causes to us, the populace at large, and find all of this so very confusing.

So I just try to do my best to muddle through it all the best I can.

The new govenment are doing the right thing stopping all these spongers and lets not forget just how Labour were caught with their hands in the till ,also Cameron overturning some of these stupid health and safety laws is just what is needed ,lets hope Labour are dead and buried for a long time..

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Exec,

Assuming that you have the necessary talents and brought up (trained) in a reasonably supportive environment, then you have the necessary education and other requirements to organise yourself to earn enough to keep yourself and others (offspring) in a responsible way.

This attitude is similar to my own, but like you, I had the natural propensities and was given the necessary foundation and help, to develop the talents and earn a more than reasonable income.

NM,

The problem, with some current civilised societies is that, those in the poorer classes are often imprisoned in their strata, by lack of knowledge, expertise and/or supportive structures to organise and advance themselves. They may have the necessary propensities, but many will be lacking in the support systems necessary for their further their advancement.

Many of those, in the deprived strata of society recognise the advantages (financial or other), of different groups within their society and on reviewing their own set of talents and support are prepared to fall back on them.

Those talents may be their physical strengths, experience of criminality, different morality, criminal (gang) support, etc..
I would expect in the current and expected economical situation with increasing unemployment and proposed clampdown on welfare benefits will lead to an increase in criminality.

If the proposed reduction of the budget for law enforcement happens, I think social discomfort may spread over the majority of society, in ways different to what is expected by many.

I would prefer a more harmonious society than the one which seems likely by punishing a minority of false claimants.

Again, what interests me is that there is no uproar against changes in the penal system which are proposed by the Idol of the Right, Blue Ken.

I thought the blue party was the law and order party, or, perhaps, they should be called the British Tea Party. 8-)

.

.

AVDFN have stopped people from posting charts on their message board that are not avdfn charts , seems a bit petty to me

The route to greater wealth is through the selling of assets. However, they do have to be acquired first - and they need to be of the type that ascend in value, rather than those of the opposite variety.

Many people, particularly those in the lower working classes, have yet to realise this. Thus they easily become trapped in methods of wealth acquisition which are too dependent on time. eg, hourly pay, weekly pay, annual salary

One of the most popular ways out of the poverty trap was through the 'property route'. DIY building-type skills can be used to great effect, which also added to profitabilty by substituting such work for that done by 'professionals'.

However, this route does look to be stuffed at the moment. Or does it? The best reason to buy a particular property has been and always will be, "position, position, position!" Thus buyers will always searching for such treasures and prices must surely continue to ascend.

Another popular way, and this is now greatly coming to the fore, is via the 'business route'.

Once again, it usually involves the selling of assets. eg, a speciality service or speciality goods. Such businesses may often increase in size. eg, having more than one sales outlet. And then even further on, towards the ultimate, where the product (or asset) that is being sold is actually the business (or businesses) itself (themselves) - or even groups of businesses.

Generally speaking, having made the first realisation concerning the way to wealth, the starting point is usually merely for the individual concerned to better his or her personal annual income. Having done this, then a proving point is reached and from this new base the entrepreneur can begin to move to a higher level with the business activity.

The MoneyAM web site is shared by groups of individuals, who share the common feeling that Financial Markets offer the quickest and easiest route. But with 'quick and easy' also comes high risk and volatility. Thus fortunes can be lost as well as gained.

I really still don't know what types of assets are best for individuals to buy and sell (or even sell and then cover that negative position) to increase their wealth.

But I do know about the basic secret to it all and I'm still enjoying searching for those prizes that are given to the winners.

:-)

NM.

Actually, I was thinking benignly of the support systems of the different groups of society.

I was thinking of parental support and good parenting to be more obvious and useful within the middle classes.

(The problem is that this support is sometimes introjected and is restrictive to the future development to their offspring. Often it is covertly organised for and limited to the protection of to themselves and their offspring, or advantageous to "their group, or part, of society", but lacking altruism and is at the expense of an overall coherent society.)

The "secret society" of the Masons, is another organisation open to corruption and corrupting, but I think less so than of previous periods.

Had interesting tussle with members of such a group, until I realised what bound them together. For a while I had found it puzzling, why certain individuals while individually agreeing with propositions, later banded together and voted against the same ideas.



Didn't realise initially that I was being thought of as a possible "convert", but during one "discussion" with members of that August body did mention that "rolling up my trouser leg to become a member of a secret boys' club didn't have much appeal to me", probably put them off.

Again, similar behaviour can be seen in many professional groups. Medical, Legal, and Political. (Claims made by the groups of "protecting the public", are often for self protection of their own members, and little to do with the well-being of the public.)

Stop now, or I will have to sign myself as Cynic.

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For Jimmy B and Greek

Dispatches!

If you missed it, have a look.

Interesting:

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/dispatches/episode-guide/series-72/episode-1

Hi Fred,

Watched it. Must be getting calmer as I get older. Only had steam coming out of my ears a couple of times.
As has been said many times, Tax avoidance is legal, but it shows how hypocritical our rulers are when they continually spout forth about how immorally wrong it is for those who are rich to avoid paying their dues. I have nothing against capitalism, in fact I think it is the only system that can work, it is just that the rich have to be as accountable as everyone else.
I do not blame those who can legally make the system work, I would if I could, but I would not be two faced about it. It is the system itself that is wrong. And of course we know who is in charge of the system.

If we were not so over taxed from when we start work to the day after we die there wouldn't be so much avoidance, and the report's on the waste at the MOD, NHS and in the civil service doesn't help.

Aldwickk,

Totally agree. Most people are not so much annoyed about the amount of tax they pay, as to how it is wasted.
Whenever I read about waste in any area where my tax goes, especially to areas such as to pay for people with massive families, who don't work and live entirely on benefits, in big houses, with multiple bedrooms, I feel that I have worked a fair percentage of my working life to keep these parasites. Why should we get up to go to work, whilst these spongers turn over in bed and go back to sleep.
Several years ago there was a story about an illegal immigrant who had a large family. It gave the total amount that it cost to keep him and his family on benefits and the projected amount over the next ten years. The amount was over 1,000,000. Seems exaggerated, but he had lived here for around 20 years so he would only (sic) have needed to be paid around 33,000 per year for 30 years to reach that amount. This huge amount did not include any NHS cost, education for his many kids etc.
So I worked out that over my working life of 40 years all my tax did not come to the amount to keep just one family, and there are many more such examples.
No wonder most people feel sick to the stomach about where our hard earned money goes.

I think Osborne is doing a good job, in fact if he carries on like this, I'll turn into a fan !.

As bad as the EU.
It appears from todays Telegraph that the house of Commons has lost (no don't laugh this is serious) several documents that show justification of several MP's expenses. Due to this the annual accounts can not be signed off by the auditor. Instead they will be formally 'qualified' which means that they can not be verified to show a 'true and completely fair' account. In other words, these accounts are worthless.
Can you just imagine the action that HMRC would take if they received a tax account from a member of the public that could not be proven.
Still I suppose they did not loose them intentionally and will no doubt be making a thorough in depth search for said papers (look you have to stop treating this as a joke, it's serious I tell you).
And our government has the gaul to criticize the EU for failing to have their accounts pass auditing.
I think it was Robert Mugabe that said a few months ago when he was asked about corruption in his country, 'Yes we are corrupt, but at least we are honest about it'.

G,

"I do not blame those who can legally make the system work".

Part of criminality is due to those committing crimes justifying their actions on what they perceive as "unfairness".

Ie. the "legislators" able to use and "manipulate" the "law" for their to their own benefit, at the expense of those in less privileged positions.

The "said" proposed cut backs, if implemented will produce more social disharmony and "criminality" of one form or another.


It will be interesting to see the effects on "social" services on the middle classes. I don't think the majority realise how much of the "quality" of their lives are dependant on them.

Unnecessary waste is generally wrong, but I wonder how much the "Private sector" has be screwing the "public services" by over charging for their services.

Good business strategy in a society based on capitistalism.

I thought George and Dave were protectors of the Armed Services and "law and order".

Greek will admit the police services should be pruned, personel should work until 67years old and of course their pensions could be reduced to "reasonable" levels. (Not to mention any perks.)

.

Oh dear! The Defence Cuts:

Lots and lots of people, particularly those in our armed forces, are not going to be happy with this.

Ark Royal and Harrier jump jets scrapped immediately
UK to have no working aircraft carrier for a decade
Army to lose 7,000 troops, RAF 5,000 and Navy 4,000
Trident renewal delayed for five years, saving 750m
Cameron insists: 'We'll still be front rank military power' (Hmmm?)
Angry Harrier pilot challenges him about job losses

Two new carriers will be built because penalty clauses in the contracts mean it would be more expensive to scrap one.
But the first carrier will be a 3billion white elephant that will never carry any aircraft and will be mothballed or sold after just three years in service.

The cuts will also see:

The Army lose 7,000 soldiers, more than 100 tanks and 200 armoured vehicles. An armoured brigade will go and the British presence in German will ultimately be withdrawn

The RAF will lose at least 5,000 service personnel and two RAF bases are to close;

Navy warships will fall from 24 to 19 and 4,000 personnel will go. Harrier jump jets are being scrapped next year and no F35 Joint Strike Fighters will replace them until 2015

The cuts have raised questions about Britains ability to defend its interests and provoked anger in Tory ranks that Mr Cameron has bowed to Lib Dem demands to delay Trident. The delay means Britains ageing fleet of Vanguard-class Trident nuclear submarines will have to stay in service longer.
The first submarine is due to go out of service in 2022. But the delay means the first new boat will not enter service until 2028 or 2029.

Former Navy chiefs Admiral Lord West and Admiral Sir Jonathon Band have both warned that the absence of jets on board the carriers would make it impossible to retake the Falklands if the Argentinians chose to invade.
For the next ten years the UK will have just one active carrier, armed with helicopters, with HMS Queen Elizabeth entering service in 2016. That will leave the UK dependent on the French or Americans to help in the event of a new Falklands crisis over the next decade.

In 2019, when the second carrier Prince of Wales arrives, the Queen Elizabeth will be put into extended readiness - military terminology for mothballing - and may even be sold abroad.
The Prince of Wales will also carry just helicopters for a year before the American Joint Strike Fighter jets come into service in 2020.

Special forces will be handed a funding boost to allow the purchase of sophisticated weapons and communications equipment.

Helicopters on a fecking aircraft carrier!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dont usualy get much chance to post on my creation thread here these days but thought I had to mention that.

Even worse Im going to reveal I love the labour party.

A lot think Im from priveledged rich, .................... not so.

I was brought up in a rented private house with my ass hanging out of my trousers and wearing big green gum boots even in summer to school.

My father was a engineering pattern maker a very skilled job but didnt pay that much in them days.

I worked my bollocks off to get to uni and I did and after 6 years and a phd in economics.

But I fear for young kids today, i also went through Thatcher tory cuts and just made it.

I fear that the young uns today wont.

Hope that hasnt upset anyone just my personal take (no matter what your political party is) on whats going on.

cheers GF.