Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

Alf, don't judge everyone by your own limitations.

indeed not, but you haven't a clue either :-)

No one does only the 1st informed referendum will give us a better idea what the Country wants, but the arguing will continue because unfortunately most people on this Island like it that way.

Actually, Caroline Lucas talks sense on the matter.

"No one does" ....... exactly what i said!

My guess is TM will creep over the line with some help from the EU may be not on first vote but a second. She has a track record of beating the odds.

i would like to think so, but perhaps that is just wishful thinking

plainly corbyn won't win a no confidence vote and for that matter, he has no proper plan for any kind of brexit and has also been warned against promoting a 2nd referendum - which, as with nearly every policy utterance he makes, sometimes he does and sometimes he doesn't

"plainly corbyn won't win a no confidence vote and for that matter, he has no proper plan for any kind of brexit"

1) the no confidence vote will be against T.M and the tory government not Corbyn.
2) I would think the majority of the tory party are fed up with ineptitude of the present tory and recent past leaders (Cameron, Osborne, Jonhson and Mogg etc.) and would prefer to give up what for some of the party elite see their rightful place to rule.
3) Many of the cabinet seem to preparing to resign to bring the present mobsters or oligarchy down.
4) Corbyn doesn't need any plan for exiting the EU. The labour party can join with the SNP and Lib/dems and opt to stay in and put that to the electorate in their manifesto, pointing out the failure of the tories and neo-cons’ failed plans and the consequences of carrying on the stupidity of the last 2years.

5) Also, they can unite and with the above parties and be prepared to form a possibly necessary coalition government with a small sprinkling of sensible moderate tories.

Fascinating to watch the squirming of the present ruling mob and their followers.

keep the red flag flying eh fred

but beware, for you too will be labelled as a recidivist kulak or worse, and you know what happened to them

For your pleasure.

Exclusive: Leading Brexit donors say Britain will reverse decision to leave EU
Andrew MacAskill, Ben Martin, Maiya Keidan
5 MIN READ

LONDON (Reuters) - Two of the biggest donors to the Brexit campaign say they now believe the project they championed will eventually be abandoned by the government and the United Kingdom will stay in the European Union.

FILE PHOTO - Anti-Brexit protestor Steve Bray (L) remonstrates with a pro-Brexit protestor outside of the Houses of Parliament, in London, Britain, December 10, 2018. REUTERS/Toby Melville
Peter Hargreaves, the billionaire who was the second biggest donor to the 2016 leave campaign, and veteran hedge fund manager Crispin Odey told Reuters they expect Britain to stay in the EU despite their campaign victory in the 2016 referendum.

As a result, Odey, who runs hedge fund Odey Asset Management, said he is now positioning for the pound to strengthen after his flagship fund previously reaped the benefit of betting against UK assets amid wider market fears about the impact of Brexit.

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The donors’ pessimism comes amid deadlock in Britain’s parliament over the exit deal that Prime Minister Theresa May has struck with the EU, which has cast significant uncertainty over how, or even if, Brexit will happen.

Hargreaves, who amassed his fortune from co-founding fund supermarket Hargreaves Lansdown (HRGV.L), said the political establishment were determined to scuttle Brexit and this would lead to a generation of distrust of Britain’s political classes.

The government, he said, is likely to first ask for an extension to the formal exit process from the EU and then call for a second referendum.

“I have totally given up. I am totally in despair, I don’t think Brexit will happen at all,” said Hargreaves, 72, who is one of Britain’s wealthiest men and donated 3.2 million pounds ($4 million) to the leave campaign. “They (pro-Europeans) are banking on the fact that people are so fed up with it that they will just say ‘sod it we will stay’. I do see that attitude. The problem is when something doesn’t happen for so long you feel less angry about it.”

Turning Brexit upside down would mark one of the most extraordinary reversals in modern British history and the hurdles to another referendum remain high. Both major political parties are committed to leaving the EU in accordance with the 2016 referendum.

But Odey, who donated more than 870,000 pounds to pro-leave groups, said while he did not believe a second referendum would take place, he did not think Brexit would happen either.

“My view is that it ain’t going to happen,” Odey said. “I just can’t see how it happens with that configuration of parliament.”

Britain’s parliament is viewed as largely pro-European because about three-quarters of members of parliament voted to stay in the EU in the 2016 referendum.

Odey said he had changed his position on sterling over the last month and that the pound “looks like it could be quite strong” and rise to $1.32 or $1.35 against the dollar, from around $1.27 currently.

LEADERSHIP VACUUM
Both Odey and Hargreaves said one reason for their pessimism was a lack of direction from Brexiteers.

Peter Hargreaves, the co-founder of stockbroker Hargreaves Lansdown, poses at his home near Bristol, Britain, May 19, 2016. REUTERS/Andrew MacAskill
“The unfortunate thing is that almost nobody is leading the Brexit charge, so it’s leaderless, which is the problem,” Odey said.

He said he would be willing to donate to the leave cause in the event of another referendum, while Hargreaves said he was undecided.

Other prominent Brexit supporters who bankrolled the campaign were more optimistic about the project’s fate.

Paul Marshall, chairman of the hedge fund firm Marshall Wace, which runs $39 billion in assets, told Reuters that abandoning Brexit would be wrong and highly damaging.

May suffers another Brexit blow in parliament
“Despite the antics in parliament, the prospect of the 2016 referendum being overturned is in my view very small,” said Marshall, who gave 100,000 pounds to the leave campaign prior to the vote.

Marshall predicted the most likely outcome is that Britain will leave the EU without a deal in March, or the government will secure a revised Brexit deal, solving the thorny issue of the Northern Irish backstop, which may involve Brexit being briefly delayed.

Another vocal Brexiteer Tim Martin, the chairman of British pub chain JD Wetherspoon, who donated 212,000 pounds to the 2016 campaign, said he was refusing to contemplate a second vote.

He is touring his pubs giving talks to customers about the merits of leaving the EU without a deal and aims to have visited 100 of his sites by the end of January.

A second referendum would be “a nightmare,” Martin said.

“It’s like saying: ‘Do you think we should have another world war?’ or ‘What do you think about being struck by lightning?’” he said.

Reporting By Andrew MacAskill, Ben Martin, Maiya Keidan; Editing by Guy Faulconbridge and Janet Lawrence

Our Standards:The Thomson Reuters Trust Principles.

that may or may not be so, but unlike you, i am content to live by whatever result emerges, whether i am happy with it or not

personally, i think parliament a a whole has behaved disgracefully

as for dominic grieve who happens to be my MP, both beloved and myself have strong doubts that we will vote for him come the next election whenever that may be ...... he was elected to serve his constituents ..... his constituents voted strongly to leave ..... grieve has totally ignored them and pursued his own agenda

Some of his constituents voted to leave, some to remain.

I think he should be cut himself proportionally in two and then put his weight where he thinks it will be appropriate.

Mind his conscience and his respect for the future of his "country" as a whole may direct him to vote differently from you.

Perhaps, he believes he may be the only sane person in the asylum (sorry constituency) and should place his key or vote where he thinks it to be appropriate.

But I doubt he will miss your vote.

I don't think that he sees himself as your hired servant.

Alf votes Labour shock in tomorrows nationals!..you heard it here first.

Fred being stupid again.

A bit like saying have two thirds of him as MP and the other third made up of the other candidates.

Grieve has been a disgrace and should be kicked out of the Conservative party.

Dominic Grieve as next leader of the Con-artists I say!

Cynic - I too am in Grieves constituency

I voted for the **** last time round following a personal visit in which he promised he would work to see Brexit delivered. He clearly lied

And I presume you can guess the likelihood of me voting for him again

Well done Dom, what a star he's turning out to be 👍🏼

I understand, some Brexiters have changed their mind of who they wish to vote.

That is democracy!

Cyners,

If you and Joe Say don't vote for Grieve in the next election, who will you vote for? Or will you exercise your democratic right not to vote at all?

Cue Fred (enters stage left).

:o)

i don't know ...... i feel there is at least a moral obligation to vote, so the thought of abstaining goes very much against the grain ...... i'll have to see who else is on the ticket and what they purport to offer