This board has been a little to quiet for while.

Is it time that Bush and Blair who is a close friend and confidant of Bush were tried for War Crimes?

Do you think the use by the American Administrations of renditions are War Crimes and committed with full knowledge of American and British leaders ie. Blair and Bush and they are ultimately responsible?

Also in the aftermath of the illegal invasion of Iraq are should their action seen to be as the provocation for the rising toll of British, American and Iraqi deaths.

As a result of the military intervention in Iraq do you think you are safer in Britain to-day?

Do you think one should expect government leaders and ministers who have been responsible for massive foreseeable casualties should visit the hospitals to meet the casualties they have produced directly or indirectly by their actions?

Bush insists US forces will not cut and run and makes comparisons to Vietnam. Jeez.

The hand of Kissinger still looms large. Be afraid, be very afraid.

Interesting and considered views from penalists and audience in the lastest Question Time.

BBC Question Time

I used to be very good at Space Invaders Barwoni, the way to stop more screens appearing is to stop playing the game and focus on something else....

"Al Qaeda sees the UK as a massive opportunity to cause loss of life and embarrassment to the authorities." Now you could very easily change UK for USA of any other country, spin doctor media designed for one purpose, to try and keep support so the government can continue to fight a war which will never be won.

How much has been spent in the past 5 years. I think that total would have been better spent on education and the NHS. The government are losing the war in Iraq and Afganistan, not buy deaths either but because its turned it back on the people that put the government in power. Really whos wants a free Iraq at the cost of our own citizens not receiving the treatment which they have paid into??

Tweenie you say BNPawoni... the voice of reason!! Funny thing is that for every day we have been at war support for the BNP has grown! Is that a racist country or desperation for change?

kissinger should be put up against a wall and shot imho...the man is pure evil

Is 'Al Qaeda' the Modern
Incarnation of 'Emmanuel Goldstein'?

Is "Al Qaeda" the modern incarnation of "Emmanuel Goldstein", the arch-villain manufactured by the state to rule the population with fear? Is it really far-fetched?
If one can accept a real terrorist organization willing to kill people for their political aims, is a fake terror organization willing to kill people for their political aims any less possible?

You have heard before that "Al-Qaeda" roughly translates into "the base," but were you aware that "Ana raicha Al Qaeda" is arabic colloquial for "I'm going to the toilet"? Would hardened terrorists hell bent on the destruction of the west name their organization after a euphemism for taking a shit? [Prison Planet]

Once you accept that there can be one group of people willing to commit acts of terror you must accept that there can be a second group equally willing to commit acts of terror to blame on the first group.


"...we know they're out there looking for ways to develop deadlier weapons to use against us, that they'd like to get their hands on a nuclear weapon if they could, or anthrax, or some kind of deadly biological agent."
WMV video download (423kB)



Stop and think for a minute. Do the acts of terror accomplish anything for the group that is blamed for the terror? Does terror achieve their ends or obtain the results they want? Or isn't it obvious that the acts of terror are actually achieving the objectives of those who claim to be the victims of the terror, to gain them sympathy and political alliances?


History is full of rulers who used fake terror on their own populations to create consent for their policies. The US is known to have actually planned fake terror to create support for an invasion of Cuba. And, it is now well established that FDR not only allowed the attack on Pearl Harbor to happen, but goaded the Japanese into it to get a reluctant US into WWII.

Then there is the infamous "Lavon Affair" in which Israelis bombed British and American targets and left evidence to frame Arabs. According to ex-Mossad agent Victor Ostrovsky, Israel suckered the US into attacking Libya with fake radio messages.

The US told other nations as early as March 2001 of a plan to invade Afghanistan in October 2001. Isn't it interesting that the "terrorists" struck on 9-11, perfectly in time to create the public anger Bush needed to carry out the already-planned already-announced war?




"We need a common enemy to unite us" - Condoleezza Rice, March 2000




"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." [Herman Goering]

Who is running Al Qaeda? Who benefits from their activities? Bush got his oil war, and Sharon got a green light to kill Palestinians and steal their land.

Who really benefits? That's who is running Al Qaeda.


"...there are intelligence agencies in the U.S., which require billions of dollars worth of funds from the Congress and the government every year. This [funding issue] was not a big problem till the existence of the former Soviet Union but after that the budget of these agencies has been in danger. They needed an enemy. So, they first started propaganda against Usama and Taleban and then this incident [9/11] happened." [Osama bin Laden 09/28/01]





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

See also:

Captured al-Qa'eda man was FBI spy
Disinformation: CIA Posing as Al-Qaeda?
The Phony (Mossad) Al Qaeda Cell in Palestine
Al Qaeda's Weapons of Mass Hysteria

Wednesday, October 18, 2006

Me in the new Islamic State!
Nothing changed in my life as a Baghdadi since my city was announced a part of the Islamic State of al-Qaeda.

Of course I did not expect an improvement in electricity, security or other services but I was at least expecting a change in life style under the leadership of the new caliph Abu Omar al-Baghdadi (Abu who??).
I didn't see the women being forced to wear the chador nor did I see men switching to wear the official outfit of terror (the short dishdasha and the bushy dirty beard)!
And I did not see Mutawwa-like men carrying heavy sticks to beat people who break the laws of Sharia like we see in Saudi Arabia.
There's no ban on TV, sculptures, arts or wearing jeans!

I can notice even an increased presence of the government's security forces and I wonder how they could stay in Baghdad despite the declaration of the Islamic state!
Not only that, we did not see the policemen and soldiers executed in public as traitors and they were not even dismissed from service. On the contrary, their chief in the interior ministry is talking about reforms in the structure and force of the ministry and said he dismissed over 3,000 employees who were found not professional enough or not loyal enough to the county.

And the parliament still meets to agree or disagree and the PM still gives his statement through national TV and asks Bush whether he would be allowed to remain in office for another two months and Bush reassures him that he's an elected leader and will remain in office as long as the Iraqi people approve of his performance.

The Islamic State did not abolish the controversial federalism law that was instated after long debates and arguments, in fact it seems like it endorsed the law by announcing its own autonomous region in provinces that are supposed to be sympathetic r loyal to al-Qaeda despite the "lies" in the polls that say only 2% of Iraqis approve of al-Qaeda.
Offices and institutions did not change their regulations or functions and school curriculums are still the same and children go to schools by the millions against the will of the terrorists and n contrary to the press that claim no one can live here or practice any activity outside walls of their homes.

Yes of course living here is so tough beyond the imagination of many of outside spectators but this did not deter civil servants or students in their bulk from going on with their lives.

So what has changed then since the declaration?
Really, what was the cost or the effect on the ground other than the ink they used to print their announcement or the pennies they paid al-Jazeera to spread the news?!

To me it looks like the position of al-Qaeda has gotten so bad after the heavy blows it received at the hands of our liberators in the MNF and our brave brothers in our army and the patriots who rejected al-Qaeda and its agenda.

I think this was what forced those losers to make this meaningless announcement of a fake state. It reflects the undeniable desperation and the abandoning of their original ambitions, from a victory that drives away the Americans and the Iraqis who believed in the change to a pathetic maneuver such as this one.

But we are still here, at least the majority of us are,
Our liberators and allies are still here,
The voters are still here and the elected are still here.

The al-Qaeda is left with nothing but to fantasize about creating a caliph state as long as they still have a foothold in the country and hope that some locals would change their mind and side with them.

Ok fine, let them make their announcement but the indisputable fact remains that their state does not anywhere except for in their own sick minds.

Only two incidents can be counted among the amplifications of this move, the first was their failed assault against the offices of the local government in Mosul which left dozens of the assailants dead or arrested and the second was the attack in Salah Addin province that resulted in nothing but calls from the locals for further support from the government to assist them in abolishing the terror groups and in more reconciliation meetings between tribal leaders to forge unity against the takfiris.

There's no going back thirty years to the days of Saddam an there's no going back a thousand yeas to the days of the Caliphs.
It's over

We have accepted the rough road and the outcome will not be in the benefit of the criminals. The war is tough, painful and hard but I have no doubt of the outcome that will mean the end for the supporters of tyranny and extremism.

Surrendering is much closer to them than it is to us and history will remember with pride those who sacrificed for the freedom of Iraq
Maybe I will not live long to see that day but my children will certainly see it.

Sorry whiners, losers and pessimists. I only know to accept a challenge when I face one and I recognize only victory as an end.

aroline Wyatt
BBC News, Paris



The French government is worried that Muslim prayer leaders, or imams, are preaching radical Islam in the poorer suburbs of the big cities, and that increasing numbers of young immigrants are responding to the message. But there are some who have tried it and decided it is not for them.


I sat in a cafe opposite the Gare du Nord station, feeling slightly apprehensive as I waited for Abdel Malik to arrive.


Many people struggle to reconcile their Muslim and French identities
Since 11 September, like many others, I've often wondered what drives some young Muslims in the West to become radicalised, sometimes to the point of violently rejecting the countries they've made their home.

All I knew about Abdel Malik was that he'd been an Islamist, written about in the French press a few years ago under the unlikely headline "Rapping for Allah". The 29-year-old singer came from the deprived banlieux or suburbs of northern Paris and, as a teenager, had followed and preached a radical form of Islam.

The only photo I'd seen of him showed a stern, shaven-headed youth staring out intensely at the world with a challenging, almost hostile gaze.

So when a tall, strikingly handsome man walked in with a broad smile, apologising profusely for being late, I felt a rush of relief. He wasn't at all what I'd expected.

He was still shaven-headed, and wearing the baggy trousers and hooded parka top that are de rigueur for any self-respecting rapper, French or otherwise. But he turned out to be funny, gentle and thoughtful.

I had a spiritual need. And Christianity wasn't answering my questions. Islam fulfilled that need and it gave me the answers

Abdel Malik, rapper
His parents were Congolese, he told me, in softly French-accented English, and he was born Catholic, brought up in a Paris suburb plagued by drugs and gun-crime.

By the time he was 13, several of his friends were dead - killed in gang warfare. Abdel was searching for answers, trying to make sense of it all, and his older brother provided them by giving him a book on Islam.

"I had a spiritual need," he tells me, without embarrassment. "And Christianity wasn't answering my questions. Islam fulfilled that need and it gave me the answers."

It also gave him an identity, made him someone that other, younger boys looked up to. Abdel smiles as he remembers growing a beard, walking the streets of the suburbs preaching, and the way that people would look at him - either with respect or for some, respect tinged with fear.

Choice

But at the same time, he was also discovering music, writing rap songs with a band he and his friends had formed. The songs he wrote were another way of trying to make sense of the world he was growing up in.

It was as if they had asked me to give up my family, to cut all my ties to something I loved, and I couldn't

Abdel Malik, rapper
Why were so many people he knew poor, angry, and in a dead-end life of violence and crime, while just a few miles away, others lived comfortable, complacent lives, simply crossing the road if they saw the boys from the banlieu coming their way?

"I wasn't violent, but my way of thinking was violent," he admits now. "I saw the world in black and white. If you weren't with us - the good people - you must be evil."

A few years later, though, his more hardline Islamist friends told him he had to make a choice. To be a proper Muslim, they said, Abdel must give up music. For him, it was an epiphany. "It was as if they had asked me to give up my family, to cut all my ties to something I loved, and I couldn't."

Instead, he cut his ties with radical Islam and continued to write music, at the same time reading more about his religion till he discovered Sufi-ism - a more mystic form of Islam that, he said, nonetheless made him feel whole.

'We're all human'

Now he looks back and wonders why he spent so long consumed with hatred, dividing up the world into good and evil.

"It sounds naive," he says, "but now I know that if you want to be a real Muslim - or a Jew or a Christian - you have to love people, not hate them. I came from the bottom of the bottom - I'm black, I'm poor, I grew up in a difficult neighbourhood - but then I realised it was up to me what I did about that, and I didn't want to be a victim.

"In the end whatever your religion, we're all human, we all share the same human heart."


The French Muslim community is often accused of self-isolation
I asked him about one of the songs on his last album - a song about his country. Abdel nods, and explains. He'd been travelling in Morocco, he says, and looked at the poverty around him. And for the first time, he felt a surge of gratitude to France. All around him were children too poor to go to school, already working by the time they were 13.

And he realised that whatever the problems of the place he'd grown up in, it had still offered him one crucial chance - the chance of an education. "You might take that for granted," he tells me, "but I suddenly realised that others couldn't." And so Abdel Malik wrote what sounds like a love song to his country, a song called May Allah bless France.

Today, he's found his own language - music - to express himself, and Abdel's message to his young compatriots in the suburbs is a rather different one to the vision he preached in his angry teenage years. Abdel Malik wants them to stop seeing themselves as victims, and instead as people who can achieve whatever they want.

The choice, he says, is up to them. But France must also play its part - ordinary French people must open their minds, especially when they look in the suburbs. Not every Muslim they meet, he says, is a potential terrorist.

THE BOMB FACTORY YOU WON'T HAVE HEARD ABOUT FROM THE TABLOIDS. (Unless you live in Lancs)

BNP election candidate arrested in biggest explosives haul ever
Submitted by catch on Wed, 11/10/2006 - 16:45. UK
Two men were arrested in Lancashire last week in the biggest explosives haul ever found at a house in the UK.
Robert Cottage (49), of Talbot Street, Colne, and David Bolus Jackson (62), of Trent Road, Nelson, appeared at a Pennine magistrate's court charged under the Explosive Substances Act 1883. Mrs Christiana Buchanan, acting for the prosecution in court, suggested that the pair had "some kind of masterplan".

Chemicals, a rocket launcher, BNP literature and a nuclear biological suit were found in a search of Jackson's house. It is not yet clear what the intended target of the explosives might have been, and police were keen to make it clear that anti-terrorist powers had not been used in the case.

Cottage, a sub-contracted driver for Lancashire County Council, was a BNP candidate in the May elections in the Vivary Bridge ward of Colne. Jackson is employed as a dentist. Both men were remanded in custody to appear at Burnley Crown Court on October 23rd.

Local press have reported Cottage as an "ex-BNP" member, however, libcom.org spoke to Paul Marsh from the anarchist and anti-fascist group Class War, who stated:

"BNP membership runs for the calendar year January to December - as he had to be a member when he stood in the elections in May, he must be a member now.


How the story was reported by the local rag:
British National Party member has been arrested after police found bomb-making equipment at his house.

Police sealed off the home of Robert Cottage in Talbot Street, Colne, after storming the address and discovering chemical components that could be used to make explosives.

The 49-year-old has been arrested under the Explosives Act on suspicion of possessing chemicals that may be capable of making an explosion.

However Superintendent Neil Smith moved to reassure residents and stressed: "It is not a bomb making factory" and added that it was not related to terrorism.

continued...
Officers have been at the address since last Thursday and have been conducting door to door inquiries. Forensic officers have seized his car for examination.

Supt Smith added: "We are making inquiries in relation to what we have found at his address and to establish what offences he may have committed.

"He's not a terrorist and it's not a bomb factory but we are interested in what we have seized from his house. It will take expert advice to establish exactly what he has got.

"He was arrested under the Explosives Act on suspicion of possessing chemical substances that aren't in themselves an offence to possess but if combined may be capable of making an explosion."

Cottage stood for the BNP in the May elections in the Vivary Bride ward of Colne.

However it is understood his membership had lapsed.

Nelson BNP councillor Brian Parkinson said: "I am very shocked and surprised to hear this. I am glad to hear that he is no longer a member of our party because the BNP wouldn't want to be associated with this incident. It certainly wouldn't condone the sort of thing he is allegedly being connected with."

Neighbours said they were shocked by the police swoop. Corinne West, 22, of Talbot Street, said: "The police came to my door at 7pm on Friday night asking if I had seen anything suspicious. They wouldn't tell me anything which was quite worrying."

Aaron Haworth, 23, who lives next door but one with his partner Marie and two children, added: "The police have been here since Thursday and we are still none the wiser as to what's happened.

"It's ridiculous really. I have two young children and if there is bomb making equipment at the house I want to know about it because I have my children's safety to think about. There's been all sorts of rumours flying around, I don't know why the police are being so cagey, that's what's making everyone so worried."

Another neighbour, who lives across the road, but who asked not to be named, said: "I know Robert to talk to. He's always very polite and stops to talk his mum who lives on the same road and she's very nice too.

"He is good with the children on the street. He's been married to Karina for about three years and they seem good together. He drives a yellow bus taking disabled children to school and stood in the local elections for the BNP party.

"I think it is an outrage that the police have been so secretive. The forensics have been here and taken his Peugeot car away for examination.

"On Thursday we were told to stay inside and stay away from the windows which left us all wondering what on earth was going on. They arrested him from the back door and it was strange because the officers had a key to get in the front but from the way they went in it looked as though they thought it might have been booby-trapped. It took them about 10 minutes just to get through the door."

There is not a single link to either a national paper or news agency re the above FACTUAL story.
you've got to ask yourself why?
Was it not newsworthy?
Was wearing headscarfs more important?
I'm pretty disgusted , I thought on balance we (IN UK) had a pretty balanced press. LEFT, RIGHT and CENTRE. YET NOT ONE PICKED UP AND RAN STORY.

IMO, the greatest real threat to most people in the UK is fraud. The carousel VAT fraud costed UK, in 2006 alone, 8.3bn. The extra revenue, without the fraud, could have been used to pay for a wide range of public services - keeping hopspitals open, keeping rural POs open (merely 150m), more policing, military hospitals, medications for alheimers etc. The accumulated lost of tax revenue to fraud, wastage, corruption and incompetence amount to, IMO, to mass manslaughter (even murder). I hope MI5 and MI6 are tackling the threat.

Carousel fraud, wonder who the worst instigators are?

In Dubai, an entire criminal industry has grown up to service carousel fraud in Britain. Underground factories, mostly operated by Pakistani businessmen, have been equipped to change the serial numbers of mobile telephones, allowing them to be counted as new products each time they enter Britain. The growth of the racket has produced some startling statistics. This year, Dubai, which has a population of barely 900,000, officially became Britain's 10th-biggest trading partner. Suspicions were raised, however, when, in June last year, our exports to the kingdom soared to 529 million from just 204 million in the previous month. A spokesman for the Office for National Statistics admitted: "Something is wrong. This is organised crime."

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/pendlenews/pendleheadlines/display.var.947927.0.exbnp_man_held_in_bomb_swoop.php

Oh all those crooked pakistani businessmen in Dubai.
Won't mention all the White businesses in Ireland/Jersey etc.
Still If I can't stir up some hatred re islamaphobia...........
DON'T MENTION THE BNP BOMB FACTORY, WILL YOU.........
;-)

... and we all seem to agree that fraud, of such magnitude, is a serious problem and a
clear and present threat to us all, execpt those who profits millions from the fraud,
whoever and wherever they are. And I have no doubt some of them hold UK passports ... :-(((

How about reporting the details to the appropripate authorities ... ???

HM Revenue and Customs

If you have seen any suspicious activity in relation to Drugs, Illegal alchohol or tobacco sales or Tax Fraud you can report it to us in complete confidence our on free 24 hour hotline.

Do you have information about smuggling or any other suspicious activity? Call us in confidence on 0800 59 5000

There is also a specialist Tax Evasion Hotline dealing with income tax, corporation tax, capital gains tax, inheritance tax, VAT and National Insurance:
https://www.taxevasionhotline.co.uk/
Telephone 0800 788 887

US and UK forces doing a brilliant job once again;-)



LONDON (AFX) - Iraqi Deputy Prime Minister Barham Saleh said he hoped that
half of the country's provinces would be under direct Iraqi control by the end
of this year.
Iraqis need to assume responsibility with the support of the international
community, he added.
"By the end of this year, nearly seven or eight provinces of Iraq out of 18
provinces will be under direct Iraqi security control," he said, after a meeting
here with British Prime Minister Tony Blair.
In an earlier BBC radio interview, Saleh cautioned against "panic" in the
debate on Iraq and spoke of the need for an "enduring partnership" with the US
and Britain.
"I'm obviously concerned about the debate both in the United States and in
Europe, I have to say, because there is too much of the pessimistic tone to this
debate, even I would say in certain circles a defeatist tone," he said.
He added that while reliance on the US-led coalition would lessen as Iraqi
troops take over, "we are not immune from the cross-currents of the region, we
will need an enduring partnership with our friends in the United States and the
United Kingdom".
The commanding officer of British forces in the southern city of Basra,
General Richard Shirreff, also indicated the need for his troops to remain in
the area after any handover.
There were still "huge problems" in the area, he said, but it should be
possible to set conditions for provincial Iraqi control "at some stage in the
New Year", he told BBC radio.
Although this would probably signal "a reasonable size reduction in British
forces" in southeast Iraq, Shirreff added: "It will not mean a complete
withdrawal from southeast Iraq because we will still be needed after provincial
Iraqi control to maintain links with the army".

With all the cut and shunt this thread has seriously gone down hill. Thoughts and comments from real people are whats needed not the daily rag clippings column!!

I had a look at the heading of this thread and wondered if I could change it to BABA's Rant or cut and page.

Failed as usual, but I am beginning to see the results I and others fore casted for IRAQ and AFGHANISTAN.

Why cannot the arch architects of the crazy policy be relieved of their posts and held responsible for their actions.

Is it time that Blair who is a close friend and confidant of Bush were tried for War Crimes? Treason/traitor ............

By DAVID RENNIE - The Daily Telegraph
October 23, 200

PARIS France's leading gynecologists have challenged hard-line Muslims to bow to France's secular, "modern" rules of society and to stop insisting that female doctors examine their wives.

The heads of the French National College of Gynecologists and Obstetricians issued a public declaration rejecting any moves to undermine the principle that public hospitals are part of a secular state in which patients must accept being examined by a doctor of the opposite sex.

The move came after a consultant in Paris was punched by a Muslim who was concerned that a male doctor wanted to examine his wife after complications in childbirth. Though incidents of gynecologists being attacked on religious grounds remain rare, the declaration said some Muslims' rejection of secular norms appeared to be rising.

The college said: "Thirty years ago, Muslim women came into our hospitals without any alarm at being taken into the care of doctors, most of whom were men, and there were none of these difficulties. Why are things going backwards? It is for Islam to adapt to the liberties that all must possess in a modern state."

France's health minister, Xavier Bertrand, wrote to the college offering support and expressing his "indignation" at assaults on doctors.

The French constitutional requirement of the separation of state and religious activities led to a law banning the wearing of "conspicuous religious symbols" such as the Islamic headscarf in schools.

21:00 Today
BBC2
Suez: A Very British Crisis
Second of a three-part drama-documentary marking the 50th anniversary of the Suez crisis tells the story of how British Prime Minister Anthony Eden secretly plotted with France and Israel, behind America's back, not just to seize back the Suez Canal but to remove Egyptian President Nasser as well. Shimon Peres, then head of the Israeli Defence Ministry, speaks about the secret meeting in France and Douglas Hurd, then a junior diplomat at the UN, recalls how Britain became totally isolated


Pretext, pretext, pretext ...

Instead of rants about the veil maybe our Islamic friends should condemn.....
or denounce the Islamic government of Sudan for the on-going genocide of hundreds of thousands of black Africans.
Or maybe the fathers who cut their baby daughter's genitals in the name of Islam, many hundreds of thousands per year!


The West is waking up to the dangers of Islam!

Regime change 1950s-style

"
...

History's verdict

Finally, how far was public opinion deceived?

This is a sensitive charge. All politicians make mistakes, but mistakes based on deception carry an added stigma.

den kept the truth about Suez not only from the Americans, but from members of his own cabinet.

Certainly today's British prime minister, Tony Blair, would resist any comparison between himself and Eden.

He would say he made an honest mistake in claiming Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.

His critics would say he "spun" the country into a war which achieved "regime change" but with disastrous consequences.

History's judgement on Britain's role over Suez has been damning.

It remains, to this day, a moment of shame - a warning to politicians and generals alike of the price to be paid for risky foreign adventures.

For history's verdict on the Iraq affair, we will have to wait a little longer."