Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

EU economic growth stagnating at 0.2%

Italy have been stumped by being in the Euro

Nothing compared with what littler england will be outside the EU..

My posts reflect official figures whilst your post 12154 is nothing more than Freddie's fantasy.

W/S.

George and other Outsiders in for quite disappointing near term future.

I always said there would be short term problems to sort out when we Leave, but once they are behind us the UK will flourish.

The greater problem has been before we Leave due to the continual efforts to cheat the majority of voters by MP's and other self seeking elitist factions.

Don't worry too much though Stan I don't include you or Fred in those elitist ranks

Do you mean the past majority or the present majority?

-=-=-=

Opinions change.

Society mature.

Social expectations mature.

People are allowed to change their minds, rather than be stuck in a rut.

G/Elections every 5years or at the whim of PM and party said to be in control.

-=-=-==

Spell the "treaty or deal" out, explain it and put it to the populace and put it to the vote of the people as a G/E or referendum or both.

"I always said there would be short term problems to sort out when we Leave, but once they are behind us the UK will flourish." - Exactly what are they as I can't recall any problems short or otherwise spoken about in the Pre-Referendum campaign for the leave lot?

"The greater problem has been before we Leave due to the continual efforts to cheat the majority of voters by MP's and other self seeking elitist factions." - Oh come on George every man and his dog know that almost daily employers are not happy with the Facile stuff that has been coming out before and since the Ref. And as for the majority of voters it's also commonly excepted that the Majority will vote stay at the Informed Referendum.

''Don't worry too much though Stan I don't include you or Fred in those elitist ranks" - Oh George that's Such a relief to here -):

And as for the majority of voters it's also commonly excepted that the Majority will vote leave at the Informed Referendum.----- Delighted you agree Stan

Fred you seem to think/believe that the only people who will change their mind are leave voters, yet many Remain voters would also change their mind

Possibly.

I don't know.

But, the result would include a larger number of younger voters who will feel the responsibility of their vote.

I think they are entitled to a say in their future.

At the moment a stable Europe would be an advantage to the general unrest in the World.

"And as for the majority of voters it's also commonly excepted that the Majority will vote leave at the Informed Referendum.----- Delighted you agree Stan"

So you fell hook line and sinker for that one.. I thought you would now have another look and I'm prepared to allow you to erase your post in 12161 -):

George, You seem unable to answer two of my other points, I will give you another chance.

"I always said there would be short term problems to sort out when we Leave, but once they are behind us the UK will flourish." - Exactly what are they as I can't recall any problems short or otherwise spoken about in the Pre-Referendum campaign for the leave lot?

"The greater problem has been before we Leave due to the continual efforts to cheat the majority of voters by MP's and other self seeking elitist factions." - Oh come on George every man and his dog know that almost daily employers are not happy with the Facile stuff that has been coming out before and since the Ref. And as for the majority of voters it's also commonly excepted that the Majority will vote stay at the Informed Referendum.

When is the informal referendum Stan?

M, I have already replied to that one in post 12048...your memory going or what?

Eurozone 0 Sheepshaggers 1

Italy next week if they can still afford to stage it.

When is the informal referendum then Stan?

The answer is in post 12048. but there again I have already told you that...you memory going or what?

Italy isn't the only EU country with over 2 trillion euros of government debt. Strangely enough, the UK, France, and Germany all have a similar amount.

The difference with Italy is that their government debt expressed as a percentage of GDP is high. So what though? It's not as though they haven't been there before, and it's certainly not an issue for the time being. EZ government bond yields aren't that much off all time lows, and they don't have too much paper maturing short term. There's no reason to presume they won't be able to finance that.

Their problems are more political than financial, because the 5* coalition is quite popular domestically, and the government are keen to continue with rhetoric that appeases their people. There is also a risk that the Salvini migrant kidnap issue could escalate as 5* want him on trial - probably not the best way to start a marriage!

Stan I see you have used your right to edit your mistake in post 12160, btw I rarely edit posts unless for a spelling mistake, I tend to read what I write whereas you most certainly do not.

Old but pertinent!