Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

Georgi boy and Manual and Shhh it.

Try reading and understanding.

EU urges May to seize Labour opening as way out of Brexit impasse
Alastair Macdonald, Gabriela Baczynska
5 MIN READ

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - It’s a proposal that is not even on the table, and reverses Theresa May’s determined position - but EU officials are still urging her to grasp an offer from the Labour opposition to break an impasse over the terms of Britain’s EU exit.

British Prime Minister Theresa May arrives at the European Council headquarters in Brussels, Belgium February 7, 2019. REUTERS/Francois Lenoir
The Conservative prime minister gave no sign during her visit to Brussels on Thursday of softening her rejection of a permanent EU-UK customs union, as Labour proposes, European Union sources said.

But for many in Brussels, the possibility of Labour support for an orderly Brexit that avoids the likely chaos of “no-deal” is the only way out of the deadlock, and justifies an attempt to influence Britain’s highly tribal internal politics.

“We are still very much in the party politics perspective. The only hope is that, at some point, the threat of ‘no-deal’ disruptions would mobilise minds in the UK,” an EU diplomat briefed on May’s talks in Brussels said on Friday.

“For now, May is still looking at her own party rather than a nationwide consensus.”

The EU says London agreeing to closer ties with the bloc after Brexit would largely obviate the need for a contentious “backstop” provision in the future, an insurance policy meant to keep the border between Ireland and the British-run province of Northern Ireland open under any and all circumstances.

“We are looking at those proposals with interest but there are obviously very considerable points of difference that exist between us,” said a senior official in May’s office.

“The PM continues to believe that an independent trade policy is one of the key advantages of Brexit,” the person said under condition of anonymity.

Staying in a customs union with the EU would limit the UK’s ability to seal trade deals with other countries on its own.

But the bloc believes that solution might be acceptable to the Northern Irish unionists propping up May’s government, as well as to at least some Labour lawmakers, and thus secure a parliamentary majority for the divorce deal before Britain leaves on March 29.

Given the EU’s opposition to the concessions on the backstop that May is currently demanding, the only alternative appears to Brussels to be a delay to the exit and/or a “no-deal” Brexit, with no transition period to soften the economic rupture.

“THE ONLY WAY OUT”
“By that time, hopefully, May will have worked with Labour and get Labour votes. It’s the only way out. There will be no illusions on what will happen in the last week of March if they don’t vote for it,” another EU diplomat said.

One senior EU diplomat added: “Our leaders cannot understand why she still has not been able to do what they do every day – talk to the opposition, build coalitions.”

The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator, Michel Barnier, said he would reiterate on Monday at a planned meeting with Britain’s Brexit minister that the EU would not re-open the legally binding Brexit deal agreed with Britain over two years, but was ready to rework the political declaration that accompanies it.

The bloc rejects London’s demands for a time limit to the backstop, saying that would defeat its purpose. But it has given May an olive branch, agreeing that Brexit negotiators from both sides will sit down to talks again.

UK's May takes Brexit renegotiation to EU
EU diplomats and officials dealing with Brexit expect it to go right down to the wire. While May has refused to rule out a ‘no-deal’ Brexit, which she believes gives her bargaining power, Brussels hopes that she would come round to requesting at least a short delay if that scenario seemed unavoidable.

They juxtapose May’s brinkmanship with a somewhat unexpected role model - Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras.

Long at loggerheads with the EU over Greece’s economy and migration, the bloc’s former enfant terrible has now won widespread praise in the EU for putting to rest a protracted name dispute with neighbouring Macedonia at considerable political cost.

“Look at Tsipras and Macedonia – a leader who stuck his neck out and risked his own government and premiership to do what he knew was right. We need that type of thinking in the UK,” said another EU diplomat.

Fred, both Tory and Labour are split, just as Parliament is split from the electorate, the electorate itself is also split, no wonder everything is such a mess.

Yes to a large degree TM has herself to blame, but those in prominent positions including devious MP's who want to overturn a democratic vote must shoulder much of the blame. for the mess.

Should the vote to Leave be overturned it would set a dangerous precedence.

If you say so.

Fred (you don't deserve the courtesy), of course they want Corbyn's plan because it keeps us in the customs union therefore limiting us from having trade deals with other countries.

As for

“For now, May is still looking at her own party rather than a nationwide consensus.”

The nationwide consensus was to LEAVE

Do what the EU want and they will be happy. Jesus H Christ, who knew?

The nationwide consensus was to LEAVE


I didn't know it was poison when I said I would drink it yesterday but even though I know today I will still drink it.

I don't mind you doing so, but why punish the poorest and the youngest in the country.

401 MP's represent LEAVE voting constituencies, that's 63% of all MP's.

498 MP's voted for Article 50 with 114 against.

If you are so confident you will prove you are right by putting it to another INFORMED referendum.

Why make such a fuss if you believe you will win!

if what you (fred) say is such an obvious and empirical truth, why is the country, the labour party, the tory party and all others in between still so divided?


answer - because it is not

Look chubby cheeks and his little helper want an informal referendum and the deal is when we are even more informal we can have another one and so ad infinitum

#LedByDonkeys

nobody has denied that she was a remainer, but unlike some, she was elected to fight for what the country voted, and that she has done

many may not like the deal she managed to negotiate;
some of the more gormless splutter that they could have negotiated a much better and tougher deal in half the time;
some others, even more gormless, claim the eu would allow uk to stay within the market and customs union and everything else but still to escape the bits the uk populace does not like at all

I sometimes think that you don't get it, Cyners.

Those billboards have started appearing today in Mansfield alongside other billboards saying that Aaron Banks is a tosser (maybe not those exact words). You won't ever get to see them in Grieve's constituency, as that voted to remain and you don't fit the target demographic.

In case you don't know, Mansfield is one of the constituencies with a large Brexit voting electorate (70% vs 30%). They didn't vote for Brexit because they hate Europe as such - most of the people have never been anywhere need mainland Europe (them Germans talk funny, and don't eat fish'n'chips) - but rather for a whole load of other reasons such as lack of opportunity, lack of employment, shit weather, and life generally passing them by. Those were the neglected minority without a voice who Dominic Cummings tapped into with the promise that they'd get their life back after leaving the EU (even if the EU hadn't actually done them any wrong).

In just the same way as Cummings tapped into those good folks back in 2016, this is Soros' money going into a way of redressing the balance.

Who knows whether the strategy will work? It depends on external factors. But it'll be interesting to watch!

Yes stay in Europe Mansfield and life will be like this.

Martini,

If you need to get a message across to the good folks of Mansfield, it's no good posting it on here - most of them won't have computers.

Get somebody to print you up some posters and rent a billboard outside the benefits office!

Yes one poor sod from Mansfield did get to France to sample the good life.

Bravo. At least the French have shown charity and given him one good leg.

Hopefully the NHS will be able to get the other one fixed once he gets home. That's assuming Carillion ever managed to get the local hospital finished.

According to his back story he was able bodied when he arrived but a hotel room for a night in Paris cost him an arm and a leg, so he is now trying to beg the money to get back home.

A tail of our times for many expats I am led to believe.

I fear you're right about the high cost of living for expats in Europe, Martini. So many of them rely upon their UK pensions to provide a decent standard of living, and the weaker pound in their pocket, coupled with their resentment of being used as pawns and ineptitude of your useless government in negotiating a deal, now means that they're having to reconsider their position and return to the UK.

I do hope that your government can afford to support them upon their return once the tax income from legitimate immigrants diminishes now they're no longer wanted.

But hey, if you can still afford to visit Europe post-Brexit, you'll always be welcome chez moi. Seriously, there's so much more to life here than an early evening game of petanque over a pastis. Why don't you visit before the spring, and I'll enjoy taking you on a short afternoon trip down La Chavanette? I promise it won't take me long, but I suggest you make sure your insurance is up to date.

Hilary.

Sadly they won't even give me a quote for insurance, so I have to rely on my own reserves and hope if anything goes wrong it is either minor or fatal.

We are off to Cyprus for a couple of weeks in March returning on the 16th.

What shocked me was not the price of the hotel which is about the same as last year but the flight which is double what I was expecting. Are they profiteering on a run on flights to the UK at that time?

But we have been thinking about doing another European Road trip 4/5000 miles later in the year. So assuming the £ is worth anything by then I may take you up on your offer.

M