Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

People can argue till the cows come home but unless the (so called leading) countries in the world stop looking at

a) Growth at any price and b) debt fuelled growth followed by the inevitable crash then whether we are in Europe or not matters little as far as economics are concerned.

Haystack

Yep.. But just for the record £132 million a week to EU is about £19million a day. ( see your piece.... £19/day.... on last line)

We on the "stay in" side wouldn't want to have it thrown back at us that we claimed our contribution was only £19/day

Just so we have a bit of common ground to start the day ....it is not £150 million a day as BB stated, but more like £19 million a day.

Now let the debate rip.

A gauge tracking Poland’s manufacturing industry had its second-biggest one-month decline since the global financial crisis in late 2008, marking “an abrupt loss of momentum” at the start of the second quarter, according to Markit Economics.
The Purchasing Managers’ Index fell to 51 last month from 53.8 in March, remaining above the 50 threshold that separates contraction from growth, Markit said in a statement on Monday. April’s reading, which dropped below the figure for the euro area, was worse than than every forecast in a Bloomberg survey of 16 economists, whose median estimate was 53.
“The Polish manufacturing sector lost all the momentum gained since January,” Trevor Balchin, senior economist at Markit, said in the statement. “Moreover, a marginal rise in new orders suggests that overall conditions in the sector will remain subdued in May.”
A burst in economic expansion in late 2015 has fizzled out last quarter as the new government rolls out measures to prop up demand. Growth decelerated “sharply” from March in manufacturing output, new orders and employment, according to Markit.
The stumble will heap more pressure on the central bank, which has pointed to one of the European Union’s fastest economic gains as it kept borrowing costs unchanged since March 2015 despite the longest bout of deflation in 60 years.
Poland is the largest net beneficiary of EU aid, or wealth switching, but it doesn't appear to be doing much. I have spoken to a number of Poles regarding this aid and while they recognise that there are noticeable infrastructure improvements, job and wage growth is zero.

Lets get the FACTS right shall we...The GROSS figure that the UK
pays to the EU is 19.5 billion pounds, When you get your council tax
bill they don't take off all the segments like Police/Fire Authority
or Refuse, or the District council...Its all clumped together in one payment.

So the daily figure is approx 55 million pounds a day GROSS,
and a NET figure of 35 million pounds.

Yes there's the rebate, but the money that's handed back HAS to
be spent on projects that the EU says.

It also increases every year, and the more successful a countries
economy is the more they have to pay.

When MaxK states the figure of 50 billion, he could be getting
confused with the cost to businesses of having to implementing
the rules and regulations eminating from Brussels..

And another thing people are forgetting is the billions that
the UK have had to hand over in bailing out the likes of Greece
and to Turkey, so it all adds up to a lot more then what some
are trying to perceive as an miniscule amount.

We were excluded from the money to bail out Greece and we don't have to pay for Turkey either. We are not in the Shengen agreement so Turkey is not our problem. When Turks can come on visas to the EU they still won't be able to come here.

Grannyboy

It is the nett figure that's important, you idiot.

Surely as we are not in the Euro currency, we didn't have to fully contribute to Euro based Greek bail out.
Seem to remember on our own bat we bunged a few billion to Ireland as "friend to friend " to help them out. But we got it back.
Is some of the Turkey money not to help with the refugees?
Surely the whole idea is that the richer EU countries should pay more in to help the economies of the poorer?. We all eventually get to reap the economic benefits of a single European market.

The global liberal capitalist system we operate in requires that economic gains have to be shared.
Otherwise we continually move to an ever widening gap between rich and poor economies.
If poor countries are kept in economic distress with no access to trade in rich markets, do not be surprised if we have a migrant crisis.
It is a small world and if we wish to continue the economic gains received since WW2, weaker countries need to benefit too.
The UK has benefited handsomely from being in the EU, we will not easily give it up for economic isolation.

Haystack

Sorry.., you got there first, and said it better than I.

Wil,

Hays does have his uses!

8-)

Fred

Yes. According to the article Hays refers to it appears the contribution comes out at about £200 quid each.

I appreciate the Britx crowd resent spending even a single penny.

As to the rules and regulations.. It's down to the EU and the health and safety regulations that the UK construction industry has cleaned up it's act. The UK had one of the worst construction related accident rates in the world. Compliance has saved thousands of lives and serious injuries on UK building sites. I would say Health and Safety construction rules save the UK several million on injury compensation over pre EU entry costs.
No one wants to go back to the old days. The whole cherry picker, safety netting, aluminium tower systems are very much appreciated on site. Ladders rearly used. Even window cleaners use long reach equipment now.

Many EU driven rules and regs will stay even if we vote out.

Also... our former British Standards for structural design have now largely been passed over in favour of Euro design codes. One of our strong exports is building engineering design services. Most designs are to Euro standards.

Clock this down as another very good EU rule and regulation.

conversely, not all eu regs are either good or sensible

if we're "in" then we have no option whether to adopt or not

Cynic

True, I don't disagree with you.
But not all EU rules and regs are bad.

The impression given by the Britx mob is every thing EU is bad and us poor little UK dwellers are getting bashed by the EU evil empire. Many paint us in to the role of victim.

EU has rewarded us well over the years. We should stay for economic reasons, take responsibilty, and act as a leadng member of the EU.

We are fifth in the world, economy wise, after all and that in a large part is due to the fact we have access to the single market.

i won't bother to repeat why i shall vote "out" as i am sure your brain has already been bruised with it

You can always tell when cameron/osborne and the treasury are lying..Their mouths move.....

There's more then one way to skin a rabbit....

telegraph.co.uk/finance/economies/11737286/EU-demands-Britain-joins-Greek-rescue-html

And another backdoor way..

thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3640539/Britains-bill-for-bail-out-hits-22bn.html

Everyone has heard about the creaking NHS, and the need for more capacity.

Problem: No money!

Answer: Stop sending billions to Brussels, and divert it to building and running some new hospitals like this:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_Alexandra_Hospital


The above is £236m a copy to buy outright, instead Broon leased it £32m a year, a ruinous near on 14% pa.

The contract runs for 35 years.

NHS needs more than money ..... it needs a stack of well-qualified staff across the whole spectrum

Who are not prepared to strike.
2517

will10(1459)

"Surely the whole idea is that the richer EU countries should
pay more in to help the economies of the poorer?"

NO..The whole idea was the Common market was a trading agreement
and NOT political.

But to answer that stupid question..We'd better get
saving up then because there's more poorer countries
in the EU then rich, with the prospects of another five or
so queuing up to join and the threat of more turmoil in Greece, Spain, Italy.

Haystack(1458)

"We are not in the Shengan agreement so Turkey is not our problem.
When Turks come on visas to the EU they still won't be able to come here."
-----------------------------------------------------

Ignorance is bliss.....

So are you saying that some won't make their way to Calais or
another French port and try and smuggle their way over here..
Because if you are then you are a deluded fool...

Labour went on a PFI rampage, indebting this country
with litterally HUNDREDS of BILLIONS of POUNDS to have
hospitals built that will take generations to pay off..

And the Tory's carried it on!!.

theguardian.com/Politics/2012/jul/05/pfi-cost-300bn


But they've no shame, and would rather pass all this
debt onto our children and grandchildren...And all for to
pay billions to the EU..

cynic.

There is no shortage of willing, well qualified, home grown would be doctors and nurses. Over-subscribed to hell and gone!

The shortage is in suitable training facilities, cos the gov's (all stripes) would rather piss it up the wall on other vote catching things.