Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

Grannyboy

It is the nett figure that's important, you idiot.

Surely as we are not in the Euro currency, we didn't have to fully contribute to Euro based Greek bail out.
Seem to remember on our own bat we bunged a few billion to Ireland as "friend to friend " to help them out. But we got it back.
Is some of the Turkey money not to help with the refugees?
Surely the whole idea is that the richer EU countries should pay more in to help the economies of the poorer?. We all eventually get to reap the economic benefits of a single European market.

The global liberal capitalist system we operate in requires that economic gains have to be shared.
Otherwise we continually move to an ever widening gap between rich and poor economies.
If poor countries are kept in economic distress with no access to trade in rich markets, do not be surprised if we have a migrant crisis.
It is a small world and if we wish to continue the economic gains received since WW2, weaker countries need to benefit too.
The UK has benefited handsomely from being in the EU, we will not easily give it up for economic isolation.

Haystack

Sorry.., you got there first, and said it better than I.

Wil,

Hays does have his uses!

8-)

Fred

Yes. According to the article Hays refers to it appears the contribution comes out at about £200 quid each.

I appreciate the Britx crowd resent spending even a single penny.

As to the rules and regulations.. It's down to the EU and the health and safety regulations that the UK construction industry has cleaned up it's act. The UK had one of the worst construction related accident rates in the world. Compliance has saved thousands of lives and serious injuries on UK building sites. I would say Health and Safety construction rules save the UK several million on injury compensation over pre EU entry costs.
No one wants to go back to the old days. The whole cherry picker, safety netting, aluminium tower systems are very much appreciated on site. Ladders rearly used. Even window cleaners use long reach equipment now.

Many EU driven rules and regs will stay even if we vote out.

Also... our former British Standards for structural design have now largely been passed over in favour of Euro design codes. One of our strong exports is building engineering design services. Most designs are to Euro standards.

Clock this down as another very good EU rule and regulation.

conversely, not all eu regs are either good or sensible

if we're "in" then we have no option whether to adopt or not

Cynic

True, I don't disagree with you.
But not all EU rules and regs are bad.

The impression given by the Britx mob is every thing EU is bad and us poor little UK dwellers are getting bashed by the EU evil empire. Many paint us in to the role of victim.

EU has rewarded us well over the years. We should stay for economic reasons, take responsibilty, and act as a leadng member of the EU.

We are fifth in the world, economy wise, after all and that in a large part is due to the fact we have access to the single market.

i won't bother to repeat why i shall vote "out" as i am sure your brain has already been bruised with it

You can always tell when cameron/osborne and the treasury are lying..Their mouths move.....

There's more then one way to skin a rabbit....

telegraph.co.uk/finance/economies/11737286/EU-demands-Britain-joins-Greek-rescue-html

And another backdoor way..

thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3640539/Britains-bill-for-bail-out-hits-22bn.html

Everyone has heard about the creaking NHS, and the need for more capacity.

Problem: No money!

Answer: Stop sending billions to Brussels, and divert it to building and running some new hospitals like this:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_Alexandra_Hospital


The above is £236m a copy to buy outright, instead Broon leased it £32m a year, a ruinous near on 14% pa.

The contract runs for 35 years.

NHS needs more than money ..... it needs a stack of well-qualified staff across the whole spectrum

Who are not prepared to strike.
2517

will10(1459)

"Surely the whole idea is that the richer EU countries should
pay more in to help the economies of the poorer?"

NO..The whole idea was the Common market was a trading agreement
and NOT political.

But to answer that stupid question..We'd better get
saving up then because there's more poorer countries
in the EU then rich, with the prospects of another five or
so queuing up to join and the threat of more turmoil in Greece, Spain, Italy.

Haystack(1458)

"We are not in the Shengan agreement so Turkey is not our problem.
When Turks come on visas to the EU they still won't be able to come here."
-----------------------------------------------------

Ignorance is bliss.....

So are you saying that some won't make their way to Calais or
another French port and try and smuggle their way over here..
Because if you are then you are a deluded fool...

Labour went on a PFI rampage, indebting this country
with litterally HUNDREDS of BILLIONS of POUNDS to have
hospitals built that will take generations to pay off..

And the Tory's carried it on!!.

theguardian.com/Politics/2012/jul/05/pfi-cost-300bn


But they've no shame, and would rather pass all this
debt onto our children and grandchildren...And all for to
pay billions to the EU..

cynic.

There is no shortage of willing, well qualified, home grown would be doctors and nurses. Over-subscribed to hell and gone!

The shortage is in suitable training facilities, cos the gov's (all stripes) would rather piss it up the wall on other vote catching things.

There is usually around 100,000 people wanting to train
for the medical profession in this country every year but
only 30,000 training places....Successive governments find
it easier and cheaper to recruit from third world countries
to the detriment of home grown workers...

Does this kind of behaviour encourage the mass exodus to the west?


Oxfam's Double Standards Award

'In it's recent report on the rigged rules of international trade,
Oxfam places the European Union at the head of its double
standards league'

Seems like a nice place, this EU!!!

hubrural.org/IMG/pdf/oxfam_europe_22_eng.pdf

grannyboy

Another case of how it all comes down to economics in the end.

PFI contracts for major works.

Despite being the fifth largest economy in the world in the late 70's early 80's we faced a serious crisis needing to replace crumbling hospitals and schools and build new ones for an expanding population and modern medical pratice (this predates rising migration). With a weak economy and no chance of raising taxes to fund public works getting the private sector to pay for it was the only way it would happen. This kept the cost off the governments books and all public borrowings low. Even if successive governments could have financed the cost it is very unlikely they could have built at anywhere near the much lower costs achieved by the PFI route.

Before you get all agitated and puffed up.
Look back at hospitals/schools built in the and 60's /70's, directly financed with public funds. These were very expensive, generally poor quality and expensive to maintain. Crap in other words.

Today, neither Labour or Tory could raise public funding for new hospitals/schools. PFI is the only route.
Most new schools are now funded by academies.

We even have to get the French and Chinese to fund our power stations and this can only be done by offering EDF a premium (30%) on all electricity supplied. The new power station in Somerset is set to be one of the most expensive buildings in the world (£20 billion) if it gets built. It is very unlikely to be built as the French are now dragging their feet and are afraid of Britx. The Chinese have planning permission for the small Severn tidal scheme in Wales, they will finance and build it themselves but it is stalled because they want 10% extra over the EDF deal for any power. Some 40%!!!!!! over existing power cost. Where do we get our power when our existing power stations shut down??

How is it we have to rely on overseas investors to pay for our infrastructure.?? and they benefit from the very high annual returns. Where are our smart ass city boys when we need funding?

We need a healthy, strong economy to fund infrastructure, amongst other things. Our national balance sheet currently is unable or too weak to even pay for the basic needs of our public works.

The EU is our largest market. We will stay in.

It always, always comes down to economics in the end.

Brexit will cost 100,000 jobs, Cabinet minister warns



By Steven Swinford, Deputy Political Editor
3 May 2016 • 12:01am




A Brexit will cost up to 100,000 jobs while the NHS and other public services will face significant cuts, a Cabinet minister has warned.

Greg Hands, the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, said in an article for The Telegraph that the Single Market is the "most complete commitment to free trade that exists" and that alternatives are just "fantasy".

His intervention will fuel accusations from eurosceptic Conservatives that the campaign to keep Britain in the European Union is relying on negative "Project Fear" tactics to try to win the referendum.




More shock horror here:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/02/brexit-will-cost-100000-jobs-cabinet-minister-warns/

It 's about the future , the eu is in decline as the newer countries basically can't support themselves putting more pressure on the larger countries , plus the influx of mass immigration on countries is unsustainable but seemingly impossible to stop . Throwing money at problems a la Merkel is papering over cracks . If they don't reform for the better now they never will . A straightjacket is all we can look forward to remaining in the eu , and more and more legislation .

Brexit will affect climate change ! that's a good one, Britain will forever have a haze of smog over it for leaving the EU.
Oh i forgot and global poverty . Not sure how but it would .