How would you like to trade a market where you get large regular price swings every 10 minutes in the afternoon, seven days a week. A
market where all prices are set purely by supply and demand, few transaction costs, no middle men and you only pay commission if you win? Where you can freely act as a market maker and where you have direct market access and where you can create a spread for others to take?

Betfair has revolutionised the betting market and created an open platform for exchanging risk on sports events. This market is now viewed much more like a traditional financial risk market than an old fashioned betting market. Smart users have realised that there are huge opportunities on Betfair because they can buy and sell risk in much the same way they would in a normal financial market but without the burden of cost or the restricted access that is usually associated with traditional financial markets.

Click here to learn more

TPO the financials are pretty efficient. They used to be a good hunting ground for me but the horses and football is where most of my money comes from now.

There are some serious traders that have fully automated systems for the financials. That's killed some of the easier money and liquidity. Intra days are fun though. Often when the market is charging in one direction or another you can nip in for some value but you need balls of steel.

Following Kayak's post (171) I've watched the price movements on a couple of horse races this afternoon and captured some screens using SnagIt for later analysis. Is the general tactic to stick to a horse with high volume and trade in and out as if you were trading a share price with a level 2 screen ?

Seeing as there's a few seconds delay placing a bet with Betfair, do you get stung sometimes with a rapid change in price against you ?

Also I assume you pay very close attention to the clock to make sure you close out (green up) before the race starts.

TPO, there are a number of possible strategies. Yes it is a lot like share trading apart from having to "green up". Click on the horse's name and you will get a chart of the odds against time. You could pick a horse with odds that have stayed within a range and try to trade within that range. You could pick one that is "breaking out" and trade that. Often the favourite will shorten and most of the rest of the field will lengthen. A lot depends on the "chart". Be on your toes around 5 mins before the start of the race as that is when the on-course bookies come on to lay off the bets they have taken, and the odds often change direction or start moving if they hadn't been going anywhere previously. And make sure to close before the race begins or your heart will start racing along with the horses.

Thanks - I'd noticed that things went a bit nuts a few minutes before the start, I hadn't thought of on-course bookies. Sounds like I need to do a bit of paper trading to get a feel for things, but it'll certainly make a change to the FTSE :-)

Scrip: do you recommend any pre-course reading - preferably free :)

Looking forward to meeting you and fellow wannabee bookies next Friday.

Hi, Pip, There is very little quality stuff out there and I've read most of it. Probably better to come to the course with a clear head and ask questions from there. Lots of people offer advice but from what I have seen you only get to see half the story 99% of the time. I will be sending an email out to attendees over the weekend on or Monday.

Ok, thanks Scrip.

Scrip

you'll be pleased to know ive just greened up for the first time on the 1.20 at Aintree - i was only playing around but succeeded - still looking forward to being shown how to do it properly

Now i'm pi**ed off because the horse i backed and then greened up won!!!!

I have been taking a look at the Cheltenham Anti post market. Below I have highlighted some horses where the price is much better on Betfair against the best odds at the bookies.

Bookies price in brackets followed by betfair odds


Arkle Challenge Trophy
Fundamentalist (11/2), 11.5
Davenport Millenium (16/1), 90.0
Sporazene (16/1), 55.0
Exotic Dancer (20/1), 120.0
Contraband (25/1), 32.0
Harchibald (25/1), 100.0
Le Seychellois (25/1), 30.0
Limerick Boy (25/1), 100.0
My Will (25/1), 70.0
Back to Ben Alder (33/1), 120.0
Bold Bishop (33/1), 70.0
Bourbon Manhattan (33/1), 100.0
East Tycoon (33/1), 80.0
Kadount (33/1), 55.0

Queen Mother Champion Chase
Well Chief (7/1), 9.0
Isio (25/1), 44.0

Champion Hurdle
Rhinestone Cowboy (20/1), 32.0
Sadlers Wings (25/1), 30.0
Solerina (25/1), 30.0
Sporazene (25/1), 140.0

Gold Cup
Kingscliff (14/1), 17.5
Fundamentalist (20/1), 30.0
Iris s Gift (20/1), 30.0
Grey Abbey (25/1), 30.0
Lord Sam (25/1), 34.0
Cyrlight (33/1), 130.0
Harbour Pilot (33/1), 50.0
Kotkijet (33/1), 75.0
Moscow Flyer (33/1), 60.0

Sun Alliance Novice Chase
Iris s Gift (6/1), 18.5
Cornish Rebel (20/1), 28.0
Monet s Garden (20/1), 40.0
Sonevafushi (20/1), 40.0
Grey Report (25/1), 50.0
Mariah Rollins (25/1), 50.0

Sun Alliance Novice Hurdle
Knowhere (14/1), 18.0
Thats an Idea (16/1), 50.0
Corrib Eclipse (20/1), 32.0
The Rising Moon (20/1), 28.0
Woodlands Genpower (40/1) 100.0

Supreme Novice Hurdle
Manners (12/1), 15.0
Master Albert (20/1), 26.0

World Stayers Hurdle
Rhinestone Cowboy (3/1), 4.9
Fundamentalist (14/1), 46.0
Inglis Drever (14/1), 23.0
Lord Sam (16/1), 42.0
Cornish Rebel (20/1), 100.0
Starzaan (20/1), 150.0
Monkerhostin (25/1), 55.0
Sacundai (25/1), 46.0
Grey Report (33/1), 120.0
Limestone Lad (33/1), 120.0
Mughas (33/1) 150.0

Managed to green up the intraday FTSE between 11am and noon :-) The odds seemed very high considering the FTSE only had to move a couple of points in ten minutes to swing the bet from above to below the key figure of 4724.40.

Generally the odds will follow the futures rather than the cash index. I wasn't trading the FTSE today, but I would guess the futures were showing no signs of dropping. Also the odds do tend to swing more than they should in the direction of the outcome that is seen as most probable. If you know otherwise then lay :-)

Oh Dear, Urgent family issues have arisen, i cant make it tommorrow Scrip, but a friend of mine is going to attend on my behalf and take some notes for me,
Youve met him before,but he will introduce himself as "Ruth" tommorrow, hope he doesnt wear a dress:-) but a ruth name badge would suit him a treat:-)But be gentle with him wont you:-)

Sorry guys, hope to catch up with you all one these family issues are solved.
Families hey, whode have em:-)

Very sorry to hear you can't make it Ruth, was looking forward to it. Hope the issues are sorted.

Just set up the room and currently testing the connection when I saw your message.

Will let you know if any dresses are worn!

Will touch base after the course to make sure any questions are answered.

Scrip, thanks,
watch out for his hidden camera, hes planning on selling dodgy copies of the seminar round Liverpool:-)

Hope its going Ok, have you all made some money?

Had a good day on the course today. I've a lot to do to bring myself up to speed. Just like to thank Scrip for the effort he put into the preparation and presentation of the course. He's a gentleman.

Scrip

Thank you for a super course and a very professionally run day - the best compliment i can pay you is to say that those who werent there missed out on the best 200 you could spend. Will be in touch monday

Ruth - shogun didnt wear a dress as it was raining!!!!!

It was a packed day that carried on till 7 pm - I've always been confused by how the betting exchanges works and strategies to make money out of them but Peter explained it all with plenty of different strategies and real time examples. A fantastic day and roll on this afternoon's races. Thanks again.

David

3 races down

6 ticks, 8 ticks, 4 ticks - im starting to enjoy this but i need the probet software and even more importantly the autorefresh software